Scenario 9: The Valley of Death
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1) Difficulty played:
Medium only
2)Difficulty to complete:
9/10 - Mostly because of the way I played it. I was dumb enough to sit in the starting castle and get attacked from all sides. It just didn't occur to me to flee or occupy an enemy castle. Despite this complete lack of imaginative tactics I passed the level with no casualties
However that took about four attempts
3) Objective clarity
Crystal
4) Dialog
Ummm...it did the job. Perhaps there could be a better reason for the undead withdrawing. Considering that they just cheerfully pounded away at me through two periods of daylight it seems strange that the suddenly can't stand it, especially since there is not mention of this in other scenarios.
5) Challenges:
Well, there were these somewhat unfriendly zombies that kept attacking me...
Keeping all my units alive was a serious pain
6) Fun:
4/10 - But that's mostly because of the stupid way I played it. One day I will try occupying the southern castle and holding that.
7) Changes:
Perhaps some hint that fleeing is an option. Although that might turn the level into a no-brainer. But, hey, sometimes the brain needs a bit of a kickstart.
Medium only
2)Difficulty to complete:
9/10 - Mostly because of the way I played it. I was dumb enough to sit in the starting castle and get attacked from all sides. It just didn't occur to me to flee or occupy an enemy castle. Despite this complete lack of imaginative tactics I passed the level with no casualties
However that took about four attempts
3) Objective clarity
Crystal
4) Dialog
Ummm...it did the job. Perhaps there could be a better reason for the undead withdrawing. Considering that they just cheerfully pounded away at me through two periods of daylight it seems strange that the suddenly can't stand it, especially since there is not mention of this in other scenarios.
5) Challenges:
Well, there were these somewhat unfriendly zombies that kept attacking me...
Keeping all my units alive was a serious pain
6) Fun:
4/10 - But that's mostly because of the stupid way I played it. One day I will try occupying the southern castle and holding that.
7) Changes:
Perhaps some hint that fleeing is an option. Although that might turn the level into a no-brainer. But, hey, sometimes the brain needs a bit of a kickstart.
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Casual User
- Posts: 475
- Joined: March 11th, 2005, 5:05 pm
1) Easy, Medium
2) 8/10. On easy, I just 'held the fort' and a few healers made it work. One medium, I had to get more aggressive (thank God for my strong lancer to whom I gave the holy water).
3) Clear
4) Kind of weird. See, I was surrounded, outnumbered, out-everything, Kalenz was down to 10hp when suddenly, Delfador says they're retreating. I'm not really complaining since that's how come I won, but still...
5) Keeping the main characters alive (especially Kalenz since he was only lvl 2). I didn't recall any of my levelled units except a white mage, a druid and my strong lancer and just threw cheap lvl 1's, so I didn't try to keep anyone else alive.
6) 8/10. I'd like it more if holding the fort was the option and it would be more about castle defense than anything else. I mean, attacking one of them was a pretty weird thing...
7) Yes, one : make it an extended night. It made no sense for them to retreat when they had already had an easy time with me in mornings, BUT, if the scenario was to start at dusk and end at dawn (of the same night), all time-periods prolonged of course, it would actually make sense.
2) 8/10. On easy, I just 'held the fort' and a few healers made it work. One medium, I had to get more aggressive (thank God for my strong lancer to whom I gave the holy water).
3) Clear
4) Kind of weird. See, I was surrounded, outnumbered, out-everything, Kalenz was down to 10hp when suddenly, Delfador says they're retreating. I'm not really complaining since that's how come I won, but still...
5) Keeping the main characters alive (especially Kalenz since he was only lvl 2). I didn't recall any of my levelled units except a white mage, a druid and my strong lancer and just threw cheap lvl 1's, so I didn't try to keep anyone else alive.
6) 8/10. I'd like it more if holding the fort was the option and it would be more about castle defense than anything else. I mean, attacking one of them was a pretty weird thing...
7) Yes, one : make it an extended night. It made no sense for them to retreat when they had already had an easy time with me in mornings, BUT, if the scenario was to start at dusk and end at dawn (of the same night), all time-periods prolonged of course, it would actually make sense.
Re: Scenario Review: Valley of Death
1/ Medium and hard.Dave wrote:(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
2/ 7 on medium, 9 on hard. Managed to finish it on medium by holding the centre castle (it can be done!), using a moat of merfolk, took many attempts, however. On hard, finished by killing SW lich and defending his castle, but took dozens of attempts, including reloading from 2 saved positions (I really HATE doing this, but it seems there is a limit to the number of times I can play exactly the same moves over and over again, before eventually losing on turn 10 or 11 out of 12 every time).
3/ Clear.
4/ Clear, not especially interesting, but passable. I don't pay much attention to the story, generally.
5/ Keeping special characters alive. Finding the bolthole that best ensures survival. Using a strategy that doesn't involve risking important units.
6/ 3. A challenging scenario I respect more than I enjoy. Very satisfying to finally complete it after so many attempts, though..
7/ Add a bouncy castle and some balloons. No, keep it the way it is, one of the toughest scenarios (on hard at least). It's hard to make it more fun without making it easier.
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Eleazar
- Retired Terrain Art Director
- Posts: 2481
- Joined: July 16th, 2004, 1:47 am
- Location: US Midwest
- Contact:
(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Easy
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
6
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Pretty clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
It doesn't make a lot of sense that daylight on the third day is suddenly so dreadful to the undead. Some sort of better explanation is needed. Perhaps the evil necromancers brew up some clouds so it' never gets brighter than dusk. Or perhaps a swollen river blocks their excape untill time passes, then they would have to escape the castle and cross the river.
I also find it a little implausable that they wander into this extremely dangerous place so cluelessly.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The Wraith sent down by the northern castle
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
4-7
"4" when i huddled. "7" when i took the battle to the enemy. I don't find huddling in the middle castle very much fun. Especially with those blasted Wraith from the north. Once i heard that people were taking the battle to the evil leaders. Last time i played i actually beat all 3 with 0 turns to spare.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I originally expected the holy water to last beyond that scenario, because all other objects have. It would be nice to be clued in that this was a only temporary powerup -- less agonizing over who to give it to.
For a "Valley of Death" It's sure a pleasant looking valley. It needs more dirt, and piles of rubble, maybe some swamp.
It would be nice if one of Konrad's advisors recommended leaving their fort and going against some of the evil ones, letting the player know that is is an option.
Easy
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
6
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Pretty clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
It doesn't make a lot of sense that daylight on the third day is suddenly so dreadful to the undead. Some sort of better explanation is needed. Perhaps the evil necromancers brew up some clouds so it' never gets brighter than dusk. Or perhaps a swollen river blocks their excape untill time passes, then they would have to escape the castle and cross the river.
I also find it a little implausable that they wander into this extremely dangerous place so cluelessly.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The Wraith sent down by the northern castle
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
4-7
"4" when i huddled. "7" when i took the battle to the enemy. I don't find huddling in the middle castle very much fun. Especially with those blasted Wraith from the north. Once i heard that people were taking the battle to the evil leaders. Last time i played i actually beat all 3 with 0 turns to spare.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I originally expected the holy water to last beyond that scenario, because all other objects have. It would be nice to be clued in that this was a only temporary powerup -- less agonizing over who to give it to.
For a "Valley of Death" It's sure a pleasant looking valley. It needs more dirt, and piles of rubble, maybe some swamp.
It would be nice if one of Konrad's advisors recommended leaving their fort and going against some of the evil ones, letting the player know that is is an option.
Feel free to PM me if you start a new terrain oriented thread. It's easy for me to miss them among all the other art threads.
-> What i might be working on
Attempting Lucidity
-> What i might be working on
Attempting Lucidity
Re: Scenario Review: Valley of Death
(1) easy
(2) first time? 5, because I was trying to keep all level thre units alive, but was never in danger of losing. now? about 4.
(3) objectives were extremely clear.
(4) uh.... well, I could have figure it out without them, but pretty clear.
(5) none, really. only difficult part is to keep all level three units alive, and that isn't very hard any longer.
(6) 10
(7) none, really. I think it would be fun to play as other factions in this type of "hold out as long as you can" scenario, espiaclly this one as it it mostly open plains.
yeah, I have a thing for defensive situations.
(2) first time? 5, because I was trying to keep all level thre units alive, but was never in danger of losing. now? about 4.
(3) objectives were extremely clear.
(4) uh.... well, I could have figure it out without them, but pretty clear.
(5) none, really. only difficult part is to keep all level three units alive, and that isn't very hard any longer.
(6) 10
(7) none, really. I think it would be fun to play as other factions in this type of "hold out as long as you can" scenario, espiaclly this one as it it mostly open plains.
yeah, I have a thing for defensive situations.
Oh no look out its a ray gun.
You should move to avoid the rays
the rays are coming out of the gun
if you are hit by the rays
you will be shot by the rays
the rays are fast so you should be fast to
can you win against the fast rays from the gun?
You should move to avoid the rays
the rays are coming out of the gun
if you are hit by the rays
you will be shot by the rays
the rays are fast so you should be fast to
can you win against the fast rays from the gun?
(1) Eeasy
(2) 8
(3) Simple and clean
(4) It was clear, but not very distinctive
(5) Those damn northern sword-wraith thingies! Argh! Die already! Die die die!
(6) 7
(7) I never even attempted to "only survive", so I blew most of my money on troops and upkeep, which left me with diddly-squat, because there is no bonus for ending the scenario on the last round... I'd like some way to keep money from this scenario. :p
On the other hand, at least I completely decimated my opponents. First I massacred those damn walking corpses in the east with my Paladin, Glandalf and high-level melee-units, while sending a present of archers and mages to the south... In retrospect, seeing as how I got reinforcement from the white-mage from the Isle of the Dead scenario, I should have sent those damn archers to the north (and those damn wraiths), and let the white-mages and miscellaneous troops handle the south.
(2) 8
(3) Simple and clean
(4) It was clear, but not very distinctive
(5) Those damn northern sword-wraith thingies! Argh! Die already! Die die die!
(6) 7
(7) I never even attempted to "only survive", so I blew most of my money on troops and upkeep, which left me with diddly-squat, because there is no bonus for ending the scenario on the last round... I'd like some way to keep money from this scenario. :p
On the other hand, at least I completely decimated my opponents. First I massacred those damn walking corpses in the east with my Paladin, Glandalf and high-level melee-units, while sending a present of archers and mages to the south... In retrospect, seeing as how I got reinforcement from the white-mage from the Isle of the Dead scenario, I should have sent those damn archers to the north (and those damn wraiths), and let the white-mages and miscellaneous troops handle the south.
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Becephalus
- Inactive Developer
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- Joined: October 27th, 2005, 5:30 am
- Location: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA, Earth
Medium 1.02
7
Clear
Dialogue was average for the campaign, nothign special
Well I sent main force south. After I killed blue I turned back and tired to hold the line against green. I made good progress against green and yellow and slayed about 50 corpses for experience. If there were 2 more turns I would have killed the yellow leader too, but my Cavalry detachment was a little late egttign up there. Unfortunately at the end of the scenario i had 50 some gold, so my huge warchest is gone and I get the default 200 for the next one.
8
A system which gives your gold based on how many enemies you kill? Maybe 1g for every 25dmg you do? I was frustrated to lose all my money, but didn't think I could do much better (killed all the armies and 1 leader, lost no units) so I didn't try again. I summoned 2 full castles of mainly lvl 2 units with about 5 lvl 3s. Maybe that is why I ran out fo cash so fast.
I also agree the valley should look a bit more desolate.
7
Clear
Dialogue was average for the campaign, nothign special
Well I sent main force south. After I killed blue I turned back and tired to hold the line against green. I made good progress against green and yellow and slayed about 50 corpses for experience. If there were 2 more turns I would have killed the yellow leader too, but my Cavalry detachment was a little late egttign up there. Unfortunately at the end of the scenario i had 50 some gold, so my huge warchest is gone and I get the default 200 for the next one.
8
A system which gives your gold based on how many enemies you kill? Maybe 1g for every 25dmg you do? I was frustrated to lose all my money, but didn't think I could do much better (killed all the armies and 1 leader, lost no units) so I didn't try again. I summoned 2 full castles of mainly lvl 2 units with about 5 lvl 3s. Maybe that is why I ran out fo cash so fast.
I also agree the valley should look a bit more desolate.
There are three roads to ruin: by gambling, which is the quickest; through women, which is the most pleasurable; and through taking the advice of experts, which is the most certain. -de Gaulle
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Becephalus
- Inactive Developer
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- Location: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA, Earth
Perhaps the valley could also be balanced a bit so the green player has a little less money and yellow and blue have a bit more? That way charging green could also be a solution as opposed to just charging blue or green (i am not talking much here maybe just 20% of green and plus 10% to yellow and blue).
There are three roads to ruin: by gambling, which is the quickest; through women, which is the most pleasurable; and through taking the advice of experts, which is the most certain. -de Gaulle
Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 5:11 pm Post subject: Scenario Review: Valley of Death
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(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Medium
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
Quite difficult. I survived with Elf hero on 2 hp and Konrad on just 14. Still, I survived. Also, by the end of the scenario I had -14 gold in my piggy bank.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Crystal.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I thought it was interesting, particularly as it's the 'first' (and only?) survival scenario for the campaign. It's always nice to mix it up a little
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Keeping my boys alive. After a few wipe's I decided that I didn't want to face the high-risk death conditions for my more experienced soliders. Therefore, I hired only merman and elvish fighters as they are both cheap and expendable. .. While I did survive, it meant that a) I lost a LOT of cash, and b) I didn't really get to level up or gain experience for any of my troops
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I didn't really understand the Holy Water. Does it make an individual unit more powerful, or my entire squad? I was a bit lost about the whole water thing really, I did not use it at all.
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(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Medium
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
Quite difficult. I survived with Elf hero on 2 hp and Konrad on just 14. Still, I survived. Also, by the end of the scenario I had -14 gold in my piggy bank.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Crystal.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I thought it was interesting, particularly as it's the 'first' (and only?) survival scenario for the campaign. It's always nice to mix it up a little
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Keeping my boys alive. After a few wipe's I decided that I didn't want to face the high-risk death conditions for my more experienced soliders. Therefore, I hired only merman and elvish fighters as they are both cheap and expendable. .. While I did survive, it meant that a) I lost a LOT of cash, and b) I didn't really get to level up or gain experience for any of my troops
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I didn't really understand the Holy Water. Does it make an individual unit more powerful, or my entire squad? I was a bit lost about the whole water thing really, I did not use it at all.
just me
Re: Scenario Review: Valley of Death
(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on? All(Based on hard, v1.1.1)
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) 6
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives? Very
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario? It makes sense, but could be improved.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario? None, the scenario is very basic, and once you get the idea of what to do, it is hard to lose. I like to keep my leveled units alive though, so I had to work harder to make sure they didnt die.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
5, it is just strategy and making the undead get into a position where you have control.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Add more dialogue, give the ai better units(the only enemy that causes a problem is the one who has the WC's, and once they get spread out and you have killed the norther leader, they are pathetically easy. If I had one more turn, I would have killed all 3 leaders(I had many units that could attack the green lich in the final turn, the other two were already dead), the chocobones and wraiths of the others die easily to mages and fighters)
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) 6
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives? Very
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario? It makes sense, but could be improved.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario? None, the scenario is very basic, and once you get the idea of what to do, it is hard to lose. I like to keep my leveled units alive though, so I had to work harder to make sure they didnt die.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
5, it is just strategy and making the undead get into a position where you have control.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Add more dialogue, give the ai better units(the only enemy that causes a problem is the one who has the WC's, and once they get spread out and you have killed the norther leader, they are pathetically easy. If I had one more turn, I would have killed all 3 leaders(I had many units that could attack the green lich in the final turn, the other two were already dead), the chocobones and wraiths of the others die easily to mages and fighters)
Even as the fingers of the two hands are equal, so are human beings equal to one another. No one has any right, nor any preference to claim over another. You are brothers. - Muhammed
(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Medium. In 0.9 and 1.0
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
Around 8-9 the first times (stayed in the Castle).
Around 5-6 the next ones (came in much more prepared too)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I don't really remember the dialogs...
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The "stay in the Castle" strategy required my to recruit disposabel units just to lure northern ghost and delay their attack. I wasn't used to that.
At second tries, I had some trouble killing the third leader (only managed to get 2 and half or something similar).
Last try was a no trouble. I went directly South with main forces, a small contigent (outrider, shyde) North via the Holy water and a small force of elves in the eastern forest to hold the zombie. Plus a Grand Knight to the southern holy water. I was lucky enough to reached the southmost ennemy at turn 4 (dusk) and before he really reachs me, thus allowing to wipe out 3/4 of his army without problem. The elves+blessed GN had strictly no trouble to hold the zombie (even at night, a blessed GN does 18 damage with sword) until turn 6 and the return of the army... Killed the third leader at turn 9
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8. Many different option, only "purely defensive" scenario of the campaign. Needs a lot of thinking but still allows small mistakes.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Eastern (and other) leader should no go out on grass... Especially during day... (and especially facing units with charge).
Medium. In 0.9 and 1.0
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
Around 8-9 the first times (stayed in the Castle).
Around 5-6 the next ones (came in much more prepared too)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I don't really remember the dialogs...
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The "stay in the Castle" strategy required my to recruit disposabel units just to lure northern ghost and delay their attack. I wasn't used to that.
At second tries, I had some trouble killing the third leader (only managed to get 2 and half or something similar).
Last try was a no trouble. I went directly South with main forces, a small contigent (outrider, shyde) North via the Holy water and a small force of elves in the eastern forest to hold the zombie. Plus a Grand Knight to the southern holy water. I was lucky enough to reached the southmost ennemy at turn 4 (dusk) and before he really reachs me, thus allowing to wipe out 3/4 of his army without problem. The elves+blessed GN had strictly no trouble to hold the zombie (even at night, a blessed GN does 18 damage with sword) until turn 6 and the return of the army... Killed the third leader at turn 9
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8. Many different option, only "purely defensive" scenario of the campaign. Needs a lot of thinking but still allows small mistakes.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Eastern (and other) leader should no go out on grass... Especially during day... (and especially facing units with charge).
Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.
Jym.
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Starglider
- Posts: 12
- Joined: February 15th, 2006, 5:15 am
- Location: Sheffield, United Kingdom
I'm still trying to complete this scenario by killing all the enemy leaders. I can take down two and get almost all the way to the third before the time runs out, but that's it. I'm playing on medium from a save, I might have to redo the earlier levels to get more gold & better units for it to be possible.
My dear sir, the word 'impossible' is not in my spellchecker.
Yeah, I thought it would be really cool to give my best mages a holy staff... you can imagine my disappointment when it disappeared the next time I recalled them.
http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/User:Sapient... "Looks like your skills saved us again. Uh, well at least, they saved Soarin's apple pie."
