Scenario 8: The Princess of Wesnoth

Feedback for the mainline campaign Heir to the Throne.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

ClimbingEast
Posts: 9
Joined: February 6th, 2008, 7:10 pm

Post by ClimbingEast » February 10th, 2008, 1:51 am

[EDIT: After replaying the campaign again, I've noticed that many of the scenarios are far, far easier when you have tremendous amounts of gold and leveled units at your disposal. What this can mean for the player is that a mistake early in the game costs him the ability to complete the campaign -much later down the line-. If this is intentional, then so be it (: Its still a fun campaign.]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Medium , 1.2.8

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
ClimbingEast Rating System gives this scenario an: Un [censored] Possible
15 of 10

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Exceptionally clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Also very clear.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Lets face it. When your opponent is recruiting level 2 units with apparently no reasonable gold limitations, and defending herself so your reinforcements take that much longer to arrive, you're in a very difficult spot.

My major challenge was beating this scenario at all. In any way, shape, or form. Village rushes with merfolk and scouts followed by a steady push didn't work for me on average, as my opponent fields a fairly large scout force of her own in addition to an enormous army.

If one attempts a rush attack with horsemen on the enemy commander, then by the time they even get on the other side of the bank, she has hired a total of 18-20 units or so -- some rediculously sized force which your first round recruits won't be able to handle. Additionally, by that time its night, and your lawful troops do reduced damage, lengthening the fights and giving additional advantage to the player working closer to home. One of the staple units for the AI is the Spearmen, piercing damage specialists, which do a number on Any scout unit.

Moving on to non-rush strategies, Blocking her troops at the river crossing with a mixture of fighters/shamen/archer fodder backed by loyal unit and assorted leveled unit support characters, I found myself in a situation where I can thin down my opponents units, but in order to maintain proper formation and not expose my valuable pieces, I had to remain in place on one side of the embankment for fear of having the contant stream of hostile recruits swarm, ZoC block, and obliterate the precious units which are my only way of defeating the end-scenario bosses.

In fact, pretty much every strategy that doesn't involve taking advantage of the AI doesn't work well.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
10, the first time you play it. Still retains a good deal of fun afterwards.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
-Warn the player that L'sira is expecting reinforcements every -dusk-, or -dawn-, or whenever they happen to happen. Maybe give her different types of reinforments, like an ogre squad one night, and tone down the amount of gold she receives in semi compensation.
-Add a short script that allows the player a way to reduce the frequency or occurance of reinforcements, like a messenger that needs intercepting or something.
Last edited by ClimbingEast on February 19th, 2008, 5:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

Jigsawn
Posts: 15
Joined: January 29th, 2008, 7:52 pm
Location: Midlands, UK

Post by Jigsawn » February 11th, 2008, 3:12 am

I've had similar problems to ClimbingEast on this one.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Medium , 1.3.14

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
10 (cannot finish)

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Clear, and the dialogue is fine, what little I've seen of it.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Much the same problems as ClimbingEast. Even with a keep's worth of Recalled experienced units, and plenty of gold to recruit a big fighting force, I get nailed every time. There's just so many hard enemies. Although keeping your elves in the trees helps a lot, there's just so many enemies that your forces get picked off one by one.

The biggest enemies I have problems with are the swordsmen - there's so many of them! And usually it takes 3 or 4 characters to take them down. Also, if you don't finish off horsemen or swordsmen they run away across the river to heal, and following them there is suicide as you get surrounded by the enemy reinforcements. I've had multiple attempts at this map with different strategies, and I even went back and re-did crossroads, getting more exp for my units this time round, but to no avail.

Now I guess the only chance I have is to go many missions back and make sure I have lots and lots of surviving high level characters for this mission. Seems much too hard for Medium difficulty.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

8

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

-Make it less difficult - maybe reduce the number of swordsmen or the number or frequency of the reinforcements.

TGM: Orb
Posts: 11
Joined: February 10th, 2008, 5:44 pm

Post by TGM: Orb » February 11th, 2008, 2:48 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Challenging

I found and destroyed the ambush, and took 20 turns to win.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
6. Again, I never felt like I would lose or be overrun, but it was challenging to keep everyone alive and make progress early on. I got quite lucky at some points. If I'd recruited more scout or water units, that could've made it a lot easier.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Perfectly.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Again, clear, but nothing stood out in terms of the quality of the dialogue.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The reinforcements (especially the swordsmen) and early cavalry recruits made it difficult to hold up across the river, as I'd typically do in a similar situation. Otherwise, the amounts of damage that the swords and pikes could do basically meant that I had to finish off or slow every enemy within reach simultaneously.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8. Lots of strategic and tactical options, a fairly tough main battle, and the potential to be played lots of different ways according to your force make-up and still be possible and enjoyable.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
If anything, out of sheer sadism, I'd have dropped a naga in the water, or made one appear when the ambush strikes/is found.

Lyinar
Posts: 13
Joined: February 18th, 2008, 1:23 am

Post by Lyinar » February 18th, 2008, 3:31 am

Version: 1.2.8

(1) What difficulty did you play the scenario on?

Medium (found and destroyed ambush; did not win)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

17. I absolutely could not get past it.

(3) How clear were the scenario objectives?

Entirely.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog of the storyline?

Clear, not all that interesting. I would have liked a little plot twist or something, like the Princess recognizes Konrad and doesn't want to fight, but is taken hostage by her general ... instead of just denial, rar-I-don't-believe-you-kill-him.

But maybe this serves a purpose later on in the plot. Maybe I'll find out in Easy mode.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

The way the AI cheats. Specifically, getting FREE level 2 units every few turns. What few experienced units I had left after Esmereth and Crossroads were quickly overrun, and level 1 fodder cannot stand up to the level 2s.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

1. Taking a beating from mobs of level 2 units is not my idea of a good time. It was a nice change to be facing only one opponent, however.

(7) What, if any changes would you have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Allow the princess a FEW level 2 units, at the beginning, to balance the ones the player has theoretically shepherded along through the game so far. REMOVE the constant level 2 reinforcements. If she wants reinforcements, let her get a few level 1 troops maybe half as frequently. Give her less gold to compensate for the fact that she gets free troops. And spawn the "ambushers" somewhere far away from any cottages.

User avatar
Buddy Jimm
Posts: 48
Joined: July 25th, 2006, 11:54 pm

Post by Buddy Jimm » March 2nd, 2008, 10:55 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

Medium 1.3.17

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

7. While it is not as hard as Elensefar, it does still require some serious planning and advance knowledge. The backup infantry forces a halt on any advance -- most of my fighting happens inside the forest immediately northwest of the river. And you have to throw a small, fast squad southeast, as well as deal with the keep-snatchers pre-emptively, or you risk getting overwhelmed quickly.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

I know the idea is that we're not actually going to kill her, but unless there were some special mechanic to it, 'force surrender' is not necessary, and the 'reduce her hitpoints to 0' is only necessary because of the 'force surrender.' It's a double take; "Force surrender? How? Oh, 0 hitpoints... just defeat her then." The first two scenarios of Rise of Wesnoth both say 'Defeat the Wesfolk Leader' without being confusing.

If we want it known pre-emptively that we don't plan to actually kill her, I think it would be less disenchanting to put this in dialog, rather than in the objectives. Besides, to do such a thing, a reason should probably be expressed (see #4).

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

The dialog is good for setting the plot, but goes too fast. The player has almost no idea of Li'Sars existence until now, yet Konrad and Delfador both talk like everything's already figured out, and are quick to give up on reasoning with her. Since she's so important to the story, and we don't really get much of a chance to talk about her until we reach Knalga, I would like to see something more in-depth to help flesh out her part. So here's an attempt at that:
[Li'Sar] Halt, you impostor!

[Konrad] Who are you, madam?

[Random advisor introduces her as the queen's daughter; that part's good]

[Li'Sar] Lay down your weapons now! The Queen has sent me to capture this impostor to the throne who rampaged and conquered Alduin and Elensefar!

[Konrad]...Alduin? Elensefar? We did not conquer them, we liberated them! And I am no impostor!

[Li'Sar] You dare to challenge our Queen with your lies and this band of misfits, boy!?

[Delfador] If this is your mother's word, child, then she is a liar! She has loosed orcs upon the land and usurped the throne by turning on our beloved king and having his nephews --

[Li'Sar] Silence, old man! I will not listen to the lies of this irritating rabble anymore!

[Konrad] Delfador, she and her men do not oppose us out of greed. Do we really have to fight them?

[Delfador] You are no impostor, Konrad. Do not believe that for a moment. Regardless, we must pass through here to make for Knalga, and this girl is loyal to the Queen. Your doubt shows wisdom, but we must fight.

[Kalenz] Her words and forces are equally strong, but doubt is now in her mind. We will have to fight her in personal combat, but I do not think her heart is in this.
Same general idea, same end, but more dramatic and elaborative. It might be a bit awkward to give Kalenz telepathy of any sort, but it would mean contributing something to the campaign besides fireballs. Then there's the bit about the valley...
[Li'Sar] (If I can't defeat this mob, the undead hiding in that valley surely will... but should I leave them to die just because they have been misled?)
I'm not sure this is what I want to see instead, but maybe it will be a catalyst for something better.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

I think I largely managed to get through this one because I already knew what to expect. The challenges are pretty much thrown at you, and there is not much else to comment on.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

7. The gameplay is great. With a more finely-tuned dialog and plot, this would be one of the best.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

No changes.

SumnerH
Posts: 15
Joined: January 9th, 2008, 6:01 am

Re: Scenario Review: HttT - Princess of Wesnoth

Post by SumnerH » April 7th, 2008, 7:13 pm

I'm filling these out having done Elves Beseiged-A Choice Must Be Made on "medium" difficulty, and I'm following the advice to rank 10=hardest scenario in the campaign (Seige of Elsenfar), 1 = easiest (Elves Besieged)

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Medium, Wesnoth version 1.4
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) [1]
6
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Seems clear, I gather that the explicit "subdue her by reducing to zero hp" text is a recent-ish addition (relative to other comments in this thread)
(4) How clear and interesing did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Quite interesting
(5) What were your major challenges in completing the scenario?
Determining that crossing only at the bridge isn't wise
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8. Quite fun. Recruit for 2 turns, storming 2 paladins/knight/delfador/elf lord/white mage to the bridge, and elvish fighters/archers/shaman east across the river was highly effective (the elf army takes out troops in the river, then crosses the river itself and sweeps up from the south to support the fast moving troops centered around the village just east of the bridge).
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Have the fencer force come out in a random area near the starting base rather than always the same place. Camping (3rd level by now) Konrad, the mer-warrior with storm trident, and an initiate near the place he appears is rather easy at the moment.

Nirual
Posts: 1
Joined: April 17th, 2008, 7:58 am

Re: Scenario Review: HttT - Princess of Wesnoth

Post by Nirual » April 17th, 2008, 8:14 am

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Easy
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8. Facing an army of level 2 units wasn't pleasant.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear. I'm not sure what the Fencers comment on "taking their keep" meant though. Would you lose if he got to the keep while Konrad and Co already moved to the front?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
It was okay. The "thinking" part wasn't really needed though.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Realizing that it is better to push during the night instead of the day, since most enemies are lawful.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
4. Crossing the river was a pain, and facing an enemy with exclusively level 2 units fairly early in the campagn wasn't too pleasant either.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Cut back on the level 2 enemies. It's fine for her to have some level 2 units like other leaders to keep up with the players veteran forces, but an army entirely consisting out of level 2 units is though to deal with, especially this early in the campaign and with little direct counters.

Miäs
Posts: 0
Joined: April 16th, 2008, 3:57 pm

Re: Scenario Review: HttT - Princess of Wesnoth

Post by Miäs » April 20th, 2008, 8:03 am

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

Medium, 1.4.1

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

Not very difficult. 3-4. But that is largely due to the fact I had 560 gold (I think) to spend for the scenario. (I did a (lucky) rush to the orc leader in the previous scenario and finished him at maybe turn 8-9.) Without all the gold this probably would've been a pain. All the level 2 units make short work of your army.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Very clear. Kill the princess.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Not very clear or very interesting either. Especially the end where they say "yes, you evil most able enemy commander, you're free to go" didn't make much sense. Why on earth would they let her go? Because they think that by defeating her she suddenly realizes she's on the wrong side?

A better option would be to give the player a choice to let her go or to take her with you. If you took her with you, the next scenario could be an orc ambush or some such.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Trying to level up my units and prevent the higher leveled from getting killed.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

Pretty fun. 7-9. The constant reinforcement ruined the first play, but the second time it was fun. Though I was constantly waiting for when she gets the next castle full of level 2 units.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Less level 2 units. I didn't basically have any problems with the amount gold I had, but if you have less gold this might be a pain. Or you'd have to be more sneaky. I decimated all her armies before her and didn't even try a sneaky way.

lord_midnight
Posts: 23
Joined: April 18th, 2008, 4:35 am

Re: Scenario Review: HttT - Princess of Wesnoth

Post by lord_midnight » April 22nd, 2008, 12:05 am

Im in this campaign now, and I just finished this scenario. My main problem was that I couldn't 'flawless' it, um beat it without a unit dying on my side, seems no matter what, I lose a unit, maybe two.. one of my good L2 Horsemen, or my Outrider...

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
1.4, Medium

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8, it took several tries to beat this, muchless without losing ,ore that one or two units.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Pretty cool, really shows some of the scripting you can do in Wesnoth, I liked it.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
She is a coward, and you must reach her in her fort, she will not advance. That she has such near limitless ability to call powerful units, ones that seem to change based on your position, ie, she calls the units best suited to beating you at the time, is ridiculously powerful.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6.7-7ish..

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
The Princess advancing at some point, limiting her supply of gold/troops, a bonus for finding the mine before the trap is sprung.

zyx
Posts: 0
Joined: May 2nd, 2008, 9:29 pm

Re: Scenario Review: HttT - Princess of Wesnoth

Post by zyx » May 2nd, 2008, 10:29 pm

(1) Medium
(2) 2
(3) Clear
(4) Clear and interesting
(5) No defeated units.
(6) 5
(7)

Clonkinator
Posts: 676
Joined: July 20th, 2006, 4:45 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Scenario Review: HttT - Princess of Wesnoth

Post by Clonkinator » January 14th, 2009, 12:41 pm

I take it that these threads are still being used?

(1) Normal, 1.5.7
(2) Pretty hard, 8.
(3) Very clear, having to reduce the enemy leader's HP to 0 or lower can hardly be mistaken.
(4) It was ok. Nothing special, but not bad either.
(5) Not getting Kalenz or all my leveled troops killed while still reaching Li'sar withhin the turn limit. Since her Lv2-troops (especially the ogres) refused to attack me in the forest most of the time and instead choosed to block my path to Li'sar, attacking them would have been suicide (I tried it, had to reload about five times. >_>). Eventually, I managed to kill Li'sar without killing her troops by sending a quick/dextrous elven rider over the northern mountains to her keep, hitting her with the bow, and finished her off with my silver mage that I sent there using the village my elven rider captured.
(6) 7. Pretty challenging, but still fun.
(7) I would have made the enemy troops a tiny bit less cautious, causing the hide-in-the-forest strategy to work. Having to sacrifice all your leveled troops just to get the enemy to move isn't very fun. (Of course I could as well just have recruited some cannon fodder, but... ...well.)

Rapturous
Posts: 19
Joined: January 10th, 2009, 12:05 pm

Re: Scenario Review: HttT - Princess of Wesnoth

Post by Rapturous » January 15th, 2009, 12:41 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?

Normal, 1.4.7.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

2. I read the above review, and was shocked at how difficult the gentleman thought this scenario was, but then I realized he was playing it on 1.5.7. Maybe that makes a difference. Regardless, in this version, it's obscenely easy. The enemies are nothing to bat an eye at. I had a small team (three) crossing the river to the east, and coming up from the side, while the majority of my units took the road. I didn't recruit too many units (in my opinion), and found the battles to be a little on the easy side, except for her armored soldiers, who put up a small fight (charge took care of them, though). Essentially, what made this so easy was that Li'sar had no ranged attacks, and had super low HP. She was easy to kill in two bouts. Her attacks didn't threaten me much, as she hid in the castle, giving my units 60% evade, as well--the one time a melee attacked her. So, weak, small enemy forces + easy leader = 2.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Perfectly.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Spoiler:

silent
Posts: 244
Joined: February 20th, 2009, 5:53 am

Re: Scenario Review: HttT - Princess of Wesnoth

Post by silent » February 20th, 2009, 8:43 am

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Medium 1.4.7
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5. Despite the lack of gold from the crossroads, this is actually quite an easy scenario if you spam elven scouts with your LV 2 and 3 units
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear enough, is more apparent once you defeat Li'sar
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Far more interesting once you beat Test of the Clan. Li'sar is leading to much more interesting dialogue than you think
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
None. Spam scouts and don't venture from forests. That should allow a win
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6. The breathing space before the next scenario is appreciated
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
None

sabalzen
Posts: 25
Joined: April 1st, 2009, 12:50 pm

Re: Scenario Review: HttT - Princess of Wesnoth

Post by sabalzen » April 26th, 2009, 2:08 am

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Challenging, 1.6

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
9.5 (only got through by cheating)

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
No problems here.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I think this is one of the most disappointing scenarios of the campaign from this point of view; it's the first meeting with Li'sar, and should be something special, but isn't. The later scenarios are much better. Capturing her and then letting her go make very little sense. None of the characters would have agreed to that, given their talk and actions elsewhere in the campaign.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
I couldn't see how to fight through all her troops given the huge numbers of reinforcements she gets. The swordsmen do ungodly amounts of damage, even to elves in forest, and the pikemen make mincemeat of cavalry. After several attempts at playing properly and losing, I tried the 'assassination' style and sent a minimal force of infantry up to hold the bridge whilst 5 knights went via the south and up the eastern edge. Once they approached their target, more reinforcements appeared (of course...), and to my horror, all the time my knights remained within threat distance of Li'sar, they wouldn't move from the keep (since when has the AI been this clever?). Fortunately, one of the reinforcements was a mage, so took him out with two knights and S/L'd until the third one took Li'sar down in one round. 'Won' on turn 7. Please don't use the stats from this game to make it even harder...

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
4 at most:
- Story and dialog are weak for such an historical encounter
- Unexpected and unexplained difficulties (instant reinforcements, the duellist 'trap')
- relatively dull and uninteresting map
- very high risk of losing your favourite units

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Rather than a standard keep vs keep battle, which doesn't fit the storyline, a chase or ambush or barricade might be better with a fixed army on Li'sar's side. Make the map more interesting, and make it fit the story - in 'reality', if Konrad's group had spotted Li'sar's camp on an open plain, they'd have just avoided it, so the whole battle makes little sense. It would much more sense if Li'sar is camped on a major bridge or mountain pass or something similar, or ambushes as you try and pass through. Spice the dialog up, especially at the end, when Li'sar is captured. Have Delfador, Konrad and Kalenz disagree on what to do. Maybe allow Li'sar to escape, rather than have her let free for no apparent reason.

Grisogonus
Posts: 10
Joined: April 22nd, 2009, 1:27 pm
Location: Croatia

Re: Scenario Review: HttT - Princess of Wesnoth

Post by Grisogonus » May 1st, 2009, 7:29 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?



(1) Normal difficulty, version 1.6.1.
(2) 7 - not as hard as Elensefar, you can spread out the enemy, and they keep coming in waves, so it's relatively easy to hold them on river bank. Horsmen keep charging through water breaking my fodder units, thus becoming easy targets for my lvl elite. I used 2 merman tritons again (one with that terident). Also lvled those loyal units from crossroads which should come in handy in the future.
(3) Well, pretty clear, a bit peculiar with nullyfying princess' hp, but ok...
(4) Very nice, a new character in the saga, keeps us wondering what wil be her role in the future.
(5) Again, keeping lvl units alive, but it was not a hard challange, once you break the first wave of tin cans, scenario becomes butter...
(6) 7 - very fun scenario, especially with that duellist, but I did notice him in time.
(7) Perfectly measured scenario, I wouldn't change anything.

Post Reply