Scenario 7: Crossroads

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vodot
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Re: Scenario 7: Crossroads

Post by vodot » October 17th, 2011, 7:19 pm

1. Difficulty: Challenging (hard); 1.8.6; my first campaign ever; 200g.
2. Challenge: 2. This one really gave me a chance to apply the hard lessons learned earlier; coming off Elensefar, I was ready for anything.
3. Clarity: 10. Crystal.
4. Dialog: 3. Almost none. Rewrite, guys. I volunteer!
5. Obstacles: 2. Ambushes, but really, not much of a problem.
6. Enjoyment: 9. I erased these Orcs with ease, although I did rely heavily on advanced units.
7. Changes: Dialogue. I could've stood more difficulty- OH WAIT, here comes the aptly-named Valley of F-ing Death.
8. Restarts: 2-3, learning to save advanced and loyal units.
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SBak
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Re: Scenario 7: Crossroads

Post by SBak » October 21st, 2011, 11:51 am

Content Feedback wrote:(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
1) Wesnoth 1.8.5 Easy (I'm a relative newbie)

2) I'm not sure of the standard, but I'd say a 4-5.

3) It was clear, kill the enemy leader.

4) It was clear and interesting. They had to go and get this Sceptre of Fire and on the way they had to go through this place where there were Orcs. Plausible enough.

5) I've only played this three times, getting through twice. Most recently I'd recovered admirably during the Siege of Elensefar (having worked out that the skellies didn't like much the Mage and Archer/Fighter combos) and had units close to levelling but was low on gold. I was thrown by the noticeable absence of Wolf Riders and the Orcish Archers putting themselves in vulnerable positions, therefore the biggest challenge was trying to work out or understand the AI and why there were so many Orcish Grunts. My biggest challenge is getting through the scenario convincingly.. Most recently I had an ambush along the northern edge of my phalanx with about a dozen Orcs near the end and was faced with the decision of staying and fighting or trying for an early finish. I chose the latter managing to take out Kojum Herom with Delfador and a Knight but it was sad to see so many of my recovery force wiped out.

6) I probably didn't have quite as much fun as the computer did picking off my recalled 'skellie veterans' (archers and fighters close to levelling) with Orcish Grunts, but I still enjoyed the scenario and the challenge. I'd say a 7-8.

7) I think being able to recruit footpads rather than thieves would have given those Orcish Grunts something to think about. Footpads could serve as a distraction for the orcs. But then again I know that would mean having footpads in the Siege of Elensefar and that would make it too easy, so I don't think there needs to be any changes.

ZhuQ
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Re: Scenario 7: Crossroads

Post by ZhuQ » December 5th, 2011, 4:14 am

Well, I must say that firstly: this scenario IS fairly easy, unless you have less than 200 gold. I finished this whole campaign in a week, so I decided (foolishly) to try shamen only. And holy **** is it stupidly hard :evil:

I understand it is not my fault hat it isnt balanced for shamens only, but this is how I did it (eventually) both times.

1.8.6, medium, ~330 gold both times.

At least in 1.8.6, There is a point in the northern hills which is significantly smaller thatn the rest, with a clump of mountains just below. In the shamen only scenario, I rushed this area with all my might, and holed up on the mountains at night, abusing my 3 resiliant (resilient?) sorceress. The following day, I blew a big hole in the opposing force, holed out for night again, and then charged at the leader at dawn. Quite messy for me, having lost an enchantress, two sorceress and my shyde.. :doh:

When i tried it first time around, I rushed the weak point in the mountains and managed to kill the leader on turn 16, with a pack of knights and lancers :mrgreen:

Just my 2 cents.

ZhuQ_

Kaiserdrache
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Re: Scenario 7: Crossroads

Post by Kaiserdrache » April 22nd, 2012, 9:11 am

Scenario 7: Crossroads

Postby Content Feedback » September 29th, 2004, 11:57 am
(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

Medium & 1.8

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

5

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Very clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Totally clear, but boring.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Meeting the objective didn't prove to be a problem, not loosing important troops was the main task here.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

4 - There were far better scenarioes before.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

At least a small gimmick in the mountains would be nice. How about a greedy troll whelp who joins your troops for 100 gold? Or a hidden dwarven treasure in a mine, guarded by a heavyweight monster?

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Ninjuri
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Re: Scenario 7: Crossroads

Post by Ninjuri » May 4th, 2012, 2:46 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
easy 1.10.2
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
6
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
It was a change-up having a specific place not to go to, there were villages just out of reach, it was like a test of temptation.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
One time made sure to send a rider only on the ground around a peice of mountain, only he cut through the hills and spawned an enemy so i was like "NOOOOOOOO! I DID NOT SAY TO GO THERE" I guess it might be my fault though for not moving him one space at a time.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Make it so you have to travel a little deeper for enemies to spawn in the mountains, so my rider doesn't cut across the edge and spawn a guy.
Fate is against me.

TeeWee
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Joined: August 1st, 2012, 9:17 am

Re: Scenario 7: Crossroads

Post by TeeWee » August 2nd, 2012, 9:40 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Medium, latest iPad version

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
3

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Absolutely clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Clear. I liked the way you only had to kill the one Orc, though I was really surprised that after the battle, we moved north through the hills instead of following the road, which I thought was the reason for going past the crossroads.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Managing money. I ended up with negative gold, only just complemented by early finishing gold (just under 40 gold carried over to next scenario)

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
5. So so. Ambushes were fun, but not too powerful to really matter

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Make the ambushes more powerful, perhaps make the southern orc a bit more powerful to increase the urgency to move east.

Titandhir
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Re: Scenario 7: Crossroads

Post by Titandhir » May 31st, 2013, 8:25 am

Content Feedback wrote:(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
(1) Medium, 1.10.2
(2) 6
(3) Absolutely clear
(4) It was clear and interesting.
(5) Avoid the ambushes and creating defensive wall on both sides.
(6) 7
(7) -

SBak
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Re: Scenario 7: Crossroads

Post by SBak » September 30th, 2013, 10:18 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Easy and medium 1.8.5, 1.10.2 and 1.10.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4 - I found this to be one of the easier scenarios in the campaign, which is usually just as well as I'm usually recovering either from a lack of gold or a depleted recall list.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Fairly clear you've to defeat the furthest Orcish leader but if you defeat both you get the EFB (Early Finish Bonus).

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I have a sneaking suspicion that whilst Konrad and his forces were winning back Elensefar Delfador had met up with Kalenz to reminisce over old battles with wine in some cave with some Dwarves.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
For me, Orcish Assassins either cropping up out of nowhere or getting where they're not wanted (they're actually not wanted anywhere, I hate them).

Other than that not much.. horse units and faerie fire make this scenario somewhat easier.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6 - the storyline is a bit nondescript but then you have the tension and uneasiness of Orcs and Trolls behaving strangely but the sight of Orcish Archers swinging their daggers at Scouts and Fighters/Heroes is always pleasing.

Then there's the philosophical question - if an Elvish Ranger encounters an Orcish Grunt in a forest in Crossroads, who gets ambushed?

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
It's actually okay as it is.. at least for me.

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taptap
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Re: Scenario 7: Crossroads

Post by taptap » November 7th, 2013, 11:50 pm

In a way this is interesting: You want to rush, but you find yourself on bad terrain during the night. If you play very defensively you can end without sufficient space to deploy. A middle of the road strategy that defends during the night somewhat forward using a few cleared hills and the forest SE of your keep and then cleans up during the day goes fine in principle (I still struggle because I insist playing this with a silly challenge = no recalls and need to finish with enough gold to keep going).

BUT

The ambushes are both annoying and silly. Orcs always blindly rush you, yet here in the rare case where they could win handily by rushing you with all units on the field, an incredible amount of orcs is camping in the hills watching their brethren die. And these guys call themselves orcs? I don't like this. It is like a cave, just that the walls attack you and your opponent can walk through the walls. And it is dependent like nothing on previous knowledge, which villages can you take despite ambushes? Where are the annoying assassins? Can I flank here or not?

Proposed remedy: Reduce the ambushes to two parties of 2-4(?) units near the crossroads, reveal them once the player is in a vulnerable position at the crossroads (let the first units pass and then attack) or stumbles upon the first of the hidden units, use suitable dialogue and one of the great new mini-AIs on them (with the aim of poisoning you and forcing you on bad terrain) and let them engage fully at that point (hand them over one to each of the AI leaders, but the whole ambush party not only a single unit at a time). Or give them the mini-AI right away and let them move around hidden, but only in the hills at start to get in position to spring the ambush, randomizes the situation, increases replayability and annoys much less than the current kind of "ambush". It also wouldn't completely blunt what usually is good play (map control, village stealing etc.). Looking at the map: another nice addition could be a forward keep (a watchtower over the crossroads with keep and one tile for recruiting).
I am a Saurian Skirmisher: I'm a real pest, especially at night.

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zookeeper
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Re: Scenario 7: Crossroads

Post by zookeeper » November 8th, 2013, 7:08 am

taptap wrote:The ambushes are both annoying and silly. Orcs always blindly rush you, yet here in the rare case where they could win handily by rushing you with all units on the field, an incredible amount of orcs is camping in the hills watching their brethren die. And these guys call themselves orcs? I don't like this. It is like a cave, just that the walls attack you and your opponent can walk through the walls. And it is dependent like nothing on previous knowledge, which villages can you take despite ambushes? Where are the annoying assassins? Can I flank here or not?
Just for clarity's sake: the locations are random, so previous knowledge doesn't really help (unless you're re-playing the scenario from the same save, naturally).

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taptap
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Re: Scenario 7: Crossroads

Post by taptap » November 8th, 2013, 10:58 am

zookeeper wrote:
taptap wrote:The ambushes are both annoying and silly. Orcs always blindly rush you, yet here in the rare case where they could win handily by rushing you with all units on the field, an incredible amount of orcs is camping in the hills watching their brethren die. And these guys call themselves orcs? I don't like this. It is like a cave, just that the walls attack you and your opponent can walk through the walls. And it is dependent like nothing on previous knowledge, which villages can you take despite ambushes? Where are the annoying assassins? Can I flank here or not?
Just for clarity's sake: the locations are random, so previous knowledge doesn't really help (unless you're re-playing the scenario from the same save, naturally).
Ah thanks, didn't know that. It is not like I tested this out - their otherwise static ways made me assume they are.
I am a Saurian Skirmisher: I'm a real pest, especially at night.

Linthar
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Re: Scenario 7: Crossroads

Post by Linthar » November 24th, 2013, 5:21 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.10.6 Normal Difficulty

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
3

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
It's a pretty clear filler level, doesn't really stand out at all story wise.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
None really. I came into the map with 450ish gold allowing me pretty much out recruit both my enemies, and a bunch of level 1 orcs at this point in the campaign aren't exactly a threat. In addition the ambushes aren't all that dangerous, I found it far more advantageous to set up my forces on the outer portions of the hills and risk a ambush or two then to try and fight in the open in the middle.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
2. Like I mentioned in the section of difficulty the ambushes didn't exactly seem to work as designed. They were too few of them making it easy to take up a good defensive position in the hills, they spawned too few units making triggering one or two of them easily handleable, yet they proved incredibly frustrating at the same time since due to the optimal strategy seeming to be sticking in the hills to get good defensive terrain, I ended up triggering one or two ambushes due to a unit choosing to take stupid unnecessary shortcuts through the hills instead of taking a route through the grasslands that was a few tiles longer but still got to their destination within the units allocated movement points for the turn.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Its clear that the intent of the scenario was to keep you fighting in the open terrain in the middle while the orcs had free movements through the hills on either side of you, but as I've said above the current setup makes this design too easy to negate, and the result isn't particularly fun. I would personally buff the ambushes somewhat to make going into the hills less optimal, but then again I'm not sure how many people playing this map other then me were even inclined to check out the hills in the first place after recieving the ambush warning.

line
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Re: Scenario 7: Crossroads

Post by line » April 29th, 2014, 1:08 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Champion (Challenging) 1.11.6, Shamans only (and loyals)
436 starting gold, enemies: 190/150
Finished turn 19/31

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
Surprisingly easy, I remembered it to be much harder. Maybe the magical attacks of the shaman line units (the enemies stood mostly on good ground) were the reason.
I went to kill both leaders and tried to trigger as many ambushes as possible for xp-milking. The key to winning was a step back with the defending line at the first nightfall. And keeping a good formation while searching for ambushes.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Clear

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
None.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
It’s good fun. I like the fact of the many loyals that can be found throughout the campaign.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
None.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
None.
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line
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Re: Scenario 7: Crossroads

Post by line » May 19th, 2014, 5:16 pm

Champion (Challenging) 1.11.12, Shamans only (and loyals)
436 starting gold, enemies: 190/150
Finished turn 22/31

It's an easy scenario, what made me play quite carelessly. I could have lost a unit several times.
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kiss
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Re: Scenario 7: Crossroads

Post by kiss » September 3rd, 2014, 7:51 am

First play as Fighter (beginner) 1.10.7.

The story starts to become deeper. Introducing an artifact now gives a good breath to the whole story. Now I want to have it!
Delfador says go northeast, and the objective is here, but I do not let his friend trouble the fight. I fear some traps as stated in the dialog.

I still have the same problem. It is the first time I have such a powerfull army so early in a campaign. Until now it was near the end and with less level 2, thus it was easier to chose what to do, recall and crush! But now the end is far away.

Starting stack:
1 level 5: 1 Elder Mage (loyal.
1 level 3: 1 Fugitive (loyal).
11 level 2: 1 Commander (1 kill), 1 Elvish Druid, 1 Elvish Hero, 1 Elvish Lord (loyal), 1 Elvish Marksman (2 kill), 1 Elvish Ranger, 1 Elvish Sorceress, 1 Knight, 1 Lancer, 1 Rogue (loyal), 1 White Mage.
20 level 1: 1 Elvish Fighter (3 kill), 1 Elvish Shaman, 2 Mage (1 2 kill), 14 Merman Fighter (loyal, 1 2 kill), 1 Merman Hunter (loyal), 1 Thief (loyal 3 kill).
Gold (carried over) : 729(429).
Units list: 1 Elder Mage (loyal), 1 Fugitive (loyal), 1 Commander (1 kill), 1 Elvish Druid, 1 Elvish Hero, 1 Elvish Lord (loyal), 1 Elvish Marksman (2 kill), 1 Elvish Ranger, 1 Elvish Sorceress, 1 Knight, 1 Lancer, 1 Rogue (loyal), 1 White Mage, 1 Elvish Fighter (3 kill), 1 Elvish Shaman, 2 Mage (1 2 kill), 14 Merman Fighter (loyal, 1 2 kill), 1 Merman Hunter (loyal), 1 Thief (loyal 3 kill).

I dislike so much hills! But, no choice, I should find a solution. I'm pretty sure I'll have to fight around 17,23 and 20,15.
I have to start and try something anyway. As I still have no idea for a good plan, let's stay simple: recall loyal, recruit some Elvish Fighter and Elvish Scout and see what's going on.

Strategy: not really a strategy this time but a rough idea. Kill south boss then northeast one.

Turn 1: here is the trap, one's can't be clearer! I'll explore the hills if possible when I'll get a better idea of the ennemy strengh.
Turn 2: I need more villages.
Turn 3, ..., 5: I have no other choice than exploring the hills in fact!
Turn 6, ..., 8: Delurin lose all his moves after a fight he was not involved in? See here
Turn 9: strange behaviour in previous turn makes me forget finish it properly! I'd like to have a Red Mage, but I have the feeling I need more healers. Finally it will be Red!
Turn 10, ..., 12: still so much errors!
Turn 13, ..., 25: game over.

I totally forgot about leadership!
It seems I have some difficulties to keep alive Elvish Fighters and Elvish Scout. I still don't know why, I'm too careless or they are too good targets.

Well, one big loss, the Red Mage, what else?
Not so much fights in the canyons, but it's there I lose the Red Mage. I think I do it the easy way, but I waste time at the beginning, I do not expect so much ambush in the hills, and of course, I discover that when the first ennemy wave arrived.

Results.
Loss 3/22: 1 Elvish Fighter, 1 Elvish Scout, 1 Red Mage (loyal).
Total: 1 Elvish Archer, 3 Elvish Fighter, 2 Elvish Scout, 1 Footpad, 2 Horseman, 1 Mage, 1 Mermaid Initiate, 1 Merman Fighter, 2 Merman Warrior, 1 Poacher, 1 Red Mage (loyal), 1 Thief, 5 Thug.
Found/recruit: 1 Elvish Lord (loyal), 1 Elvish Scout, 2 Mage.
Advancement 4/16: 1 Lord, 1 Elvish Sharpshooter, 1 Red Mage (loyal), 1 Rogue.
Total: 1 Commander, 1 Elvish Druid, 1 Elvish Hero, 1 Elvish Marksman, 1 Elvish Ranger, 1 Elvish Sorceress, 1 Elvish Sharpshooter, 1 Elvish Sorceress, 1 Fugitive, 1 Knight, 1 Lancer, 1 Lord, 2 Merman Warrior, 1 Red Mage (loyal), 1 Rogue, 1 White Mage.
End turn: 25/37.
Gold carried over: 392.
Experience: 51/145 kills.
Overall stat: +18/+5
Units list: 1 Elder Mage (loyal), 1 Elvish Archer (loyal 2 kill), 1 Elvish Druid, 1 Elvish Fighter (3 kill), 1 Elvish Hero, 1 Elvish Lord (loyal), 1 Elvish Ranger, 1 Elvish Shaman (2 kill), 1 Elvish Sharpshooter, 1 Elvish Sorceress (3 kill), 1 Fugitive (loyal), 1 Lancer (loyal), 1 Lord, 3 Mage (1 1 kill), 2 Rogue (loyal), 1 White Mage.
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