Scenario 7: Crossroads

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drachefly
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Re: Scenario Review: Crossroads

Post by drachefly » November 16th, 2005, 6:35 pm

Dave wrote:(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Medium, hard. Also, easy with recalls-only.
Dave wrote:(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
If you can afford to bring in only fighters, it's not too hard.
On easy with recalls only, I had to kind of improvise, and things got ugly.
Dave wrote:(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Extremely. You're going East, so you need to defeat the guy who guards the east.
Dave wrote:(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Meh, it made sense but it wasn't especially awesome.
Dave wrote:(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
If I rushed for the goal, which sometimes worked depending on the enemy recruits and speed of army, then it all depended on how spread-out the enemy army was. If I could get two elves into the patch of forest near the opening of the canyon, and I could get them to take the brunt of the attack, everything was cool.
Also, maneuvering in extremely tight quarters was a bit of a puzzle.

On the other hand, if I held a line with the villages and woods near the starting point, then the challenge was facing the opponents on their time of day with all of their forces at once falling upon a very stretched-out line composed of forces I couldnt' pay for.

Alternately you can rush south and do your fighting in the broader canyon there where you have more room and can make them leave the hills to fight you.

overall, 7. It's no Valley of the Dead.
Dave wrote:(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8. Lots of strategic choices.
Dave wrote:(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Make the ambushes less unstabilizing. Like, groups of enemies are hidden in the hills. If you walk adjacent to one of them, the local group of them wakes up and becomes visible... but A) the unit you sent isn't surrounded, and B) if everyone goes over the same area over and over again, you don't get ambushed, say, the fourth time.

Some of these units can be placed one row in near the bottleneck to the east, to discourage going off-road there. If necessary to prevent abuse where you wake them up and send in the mages for XP, make them go in rows perpendicular to the road... if you try to swarm one row, you wake up the one next to it. It would quickly get out of hand.
What saves a man is to take a step. Then another step. It is always the same step, but you have to take it. -- You-know-who
The Kingdom Of Loathing Era

Flametrooper
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Re: Scenario Review: Crossroads

Post by Flametrooper » March 9th, 2006, 5:45 pm

Dave wrote:(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
1) Easy
2) 5 or 6. I made a tight formation, using healers to their max, and put Delfador and Kalenz on the front line for artillery power(they can kill a Wolf rider in one attack, easily).
3) Very clear. However, I was playing on Version 0.7, and you had to kill both enemy leaders, which made it harder :x
4) There wasn't much of any...
5)The first time, I stupidly left kalenz in the rear geting villages, and he got slaughtered. After fixing that mistake, it was mainly just keeping to the road.(Also, in 0.7 it's forests, not hills, surrounding the path that trigger ambushes.)
6) About 5 - It's better in the newer versions.
7) Make the path just 1 hex wider, and allow more turns. EDIT due to recent replaying: Maybe add a few more villages near the starting castle; what with recalling high levels I ended up so I was losing about 6-7 gold per turn. Serious drain on funds, and in PoW you need them.
Last edited by Flametrooper on June 27th, 2006, 2:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

Xeron_
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Re: Scenario Review: Crossroads

Post by Xeron_ » June 20th, 2006, 9:02 pm

Flametrooper wrote:(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
1: medium
2: 4
3: rather plane - basically slaughtering
4: hardly existant
5: Leveling as many units as possible while using delfador to weaken the enemies without losing him. I have had MASSIVE gold problems - i think i have been at -60 at the end of the scenario
6: 6
7: add a bit more of a stry line - add a few more "orcs in the hills" - maybe still reward exploring them with some gold - then the scenario might reach a 9-10

neroden
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WAY too difficult!

Post by neroden » July 7th, 2006, 2:48 am

(1) Medium recently (Easy long ago)
(2) 10 (most difficult)
(3) clear objectives
(4) confused and boring storyline and dialogue
(5) money shortage, making it difficult to collect cannon fodder;
any unit can get slaughtered in one turn if three enemies surround it,
and this is impossible to avoid, making it difficult to preserve units;
(6) 1 (least fun)
(7) See below

I played this on medium ("Hero") difficulty, in version 1.1.7.

On all the previous scenarios, I'd been doing OK at this difficulty. Losing the occasional 2nd-level unit, but making new ones faster; always ending with about the same amount of gold I started with.

In this scenario, the only way I was able to get through it was to recall all my high-level (level 2) units, march in a phalanx east to the enemy leader, and kill him. Losing over half of my 2nd level units -- at least 6 -- along the way. This leaves me crippled for future scenarios. Also, I barely made it doing that; the three hero characters were all down to less than 5 hitpoints.

Well, that or cheat by adding 2000 gold into the savegame, which works. :-)

I couldn't break through with lower-level units. I couldn't hold back, defend my fort, and then try to break out, because by the time I was done defending, I was out of money, didn't have enough units left to break through, and couldn't recruit any more units.
I couldn't pick up additional villages, because if I tried to do that I ended up spread too thin, lost an even larger percentage of units, and again ran out of money.

So the scenario's way too tough at Hero level. Either add a substantial gold or income bonus at the beginning, or add more easily-captured villages, or substantially weaken the blue team.

Oddly, I remember this scenario being pretty easy at "Easy" difficulty back in previous versions. Heck, maybe it's still easy on "Easy" difficulty. The money issue is crucial in this scenario (because it's very hard to retain villages), and that's the primary difference between the two difficulty levels.

It's also a boring scenario. Is there any reason you have to kill the orcs rather than having a target destination for Konrad? I'd change that, since it fits the storyline better. Actually, unless the purpose of this scenario is to drain the player's resources, I'd remove it entirely.

EDIT:

*That* was what changed between versions. In the older version, I started on the *bottom* and had to go to the northeast. There were a reasonable number of villages to hold on to, and it was reasonably balanced.

In this version, I start in the northwest and have to go to the northeast. This is downright impossible, because the NE leader dominates the northern hills immediately, so he can smash my base from the hills *and* cover the road *simultaneously*. When my base was in the south, this didn't happen.

So, move the player's base back to the south, or redraw the map.

I also concur with everyone else: widen the road to at least 3 spaces at all points, so that you aren't stuck fighting with the enemies in the hills and you on the road every single time (good way to get killed, that).

Sly
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Post by Sly » July 7th, 2006, 8:25 am

One advice if you didn't know : never move at night in the narrow passage : you're way too exposed when the enemy is strong.
Instead wait the dawn at the crossroad in a tight formation protecting weak units and don't stay near hills. The AI will hesitate to attack you and you'll wipe out the units that will try.

Do the same after the narrow passage and then fry the leader the following dawn

Quitch
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Re: Scenario Review: Crossroads

Post by Quitch » August 6th, 2006, 4:37 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Medium 1.1.8

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
6, it's got a "trick", and once you have it you'll win.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Crystal.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Well, nothing too exciting in terms of story, but I never once left a unit on a hill tile, so I guess the warning dialogues worked.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Ensuring I moved at the pace of the slowest unit, not breaking up my army, and leaving a rearguard behind.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8, I love this one, it really does feel like you're a column moving down a narrow valley with orcs swarming out of the hills.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Nothing, really.

Flametrooper
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Re: Scenario Review: Crossroads

Post by Flametrooper » August 7th, 2006, 4:28 am

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Medium 1.1.1

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
6 or 7. I just blitzed through regardless of losses or bad strategy. This lost me a Lancer, but gained me an earlier win and some XP for things.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Basic. Kill northeast orc..

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
"We're going on a trip northeast, but there's some orcs in our way. Let's kill them." pretty much sums it up. Basic.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Stuff getting killed, and keeping together, keeping my army organized.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
4 or so, since I never went into the hills, it was hard keeping to the road, plus without the ambushes (the unique part of the scenario) it was just more orc-killing.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I don't really know.
hey.

EOE
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Re: Scenario Review: Crossroads

Post by EOE » January 29th, 2007, 4:14 pm

Dave wrote:(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
1. Medium
2. 7
3. Very
4. It was pretty good. :)
5. After a few tries i noticed: I can make thiefs! :D
6. 8.
7. Better luck favor for the player? :D

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Mist
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Post by Mist » March 12th, 2007, 10:31 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Medium 1.3.1

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4. Considering that my recall list averaged lvl 2 it was a nobrainer.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear. Kill the orc.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Some orcs on the road, kill the orcs. Makes you wonder why there is no part about letting none of them escape.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
No challenge. Steamrolled trough all opposition without any losses, quality gap between my army and lvl1 orcs was too wide.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
4 decent, but no challenge so a little boring.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Make a scripted ambush when 10th (or any number you like) unit reaches/passes immediate crossroads area. Would give a nice twist and something to sweat about.

Wen Yang
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Joined: May 4th, 2007, 3:22 pm

Post by Wen Yang » May 12th, 2007, 2:43 am

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Medium, 1.2.4

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4. I have a pretty nasty collection of level 2s and several level 3s to match.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
More than clear enough. =)

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Meh. Not really memorable. Feels like your generic Enemy-in-your-way Kill-them-all scenario.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Kinda too easy. If those orcs start with some more level 2 units or there are more ambushes it could be more interesting.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
5. A good slaughter every now and then is always appriciated, especially considering the following scenarios. =)

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
More ambushes.
Stronger ambushes. (One little ambush group of a grunt and a wolf rider triggered themselves on Delfador... with my Arch mage still unmoved close behind. Roast orcs anyone?).
More opposition from the orcs, period. :wink:
The first technique is the last. The beginner and the master behaves in the same way. Knowledge is a full circle. - Miyamoto Musashi, The Book of Five Rings.

cph
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Location: London, UK

Post by cph » May 13th, 2007, 11:22 am

1) Easy, Medium; 1.2.4
2) 3
3) Clear enough.
4) Okay
5) Triggering an ambush with the last unit you move is often painful.
6) 4
7) Chasing orcs all over the mountains, and lots of slow walking in clusters of troops over mountainous terrain to take villages, makes this level a bit slow - but I guess it makes the scenario different, so I'm not saying it should be changed.

ClimbingEast
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Post by ClimbingEast » February 7th, 2008, 7:54 am

1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Medium

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
10+

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Good, clear.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Completing the map was my major challenge. Another -rediculously difficult- scenario. Fun? Mostly. Victory on the first try, at the cost of some 8 fighters, a hero, a couple shaman, and the two loyal units that join up in the beginning. Even then, my turn ~12 victory was by a thread, with only plot units remaining. One missed attack and I'd be starting from scratch, as two more or less untouched armies had me flanked.


(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
~8

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Assume the player is going to play semi-cautiously, and will not reload autosaves constantly. Tone down the economies for the two forces as they already have ways of generating more units and aren't constrained by the "do go in the hills" movement restrictions.

TGM: Orb
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Post by TGM: Orb » February 11th, 2008, 2:18 am

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Challenging
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4, not difficult to complete the objectives, but required caution to avoid losing a few men. Doubt it would have been much easier if I'd hung back. Not sure whether going straight across the mountains would have made things much harder for me.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Perfectly
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Per usual, clear, but not interesting to me.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
So many hills, and it was never easy to take out orcs and make progress without putting some men at risk.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
5, the hills make this both an interesting encounter and an annoying one, but there was absolutely no challenge in taking out any enemy soldiers at a time except protecting my own while doing it.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Provide some statistical or unit bonus other than personal amusement for taking out the warlord to the south. Add a couple of level 2s into the mix, maybe as guards for the warlord.

Jigsawn
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Location: Midlands, UK

Post by Jigsawn » February 11th, 2008, 4:08 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Wesnoth Verson 1.3.14

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8, I had quite quite a few level 2 Recalled characters, and quite a few level 1 recalls who were near to levelling up.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Fine

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Nothing particularly interesting here. Clear though.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Keeping characters alive - it's really hard to stop them dying with the wolves around with their skirmishing ability - and there's no villages in the central areas (and going through the hills to try and heal someone can be suicide if you get ambushed). Level 1 shamans get killed really easily and white mages/druids tend to have difficulty too. Although I levelled up quite a few units in the mission, they were mostly lost in the course of it.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7.5 - I like the gameplay difference of having enemies in the hills and the ambush factor if you decide to risk it. The confined space also makes things interesting.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
- Have less wolves or make their AI target less vulnerable characters.
- Add a village or two around the centre/centre right for some healing.
- Make the pathfinding avoid the hills, often you accidently move characters through the hills because the computer thinks this is the fastest way to go, obviously getting ambushed negates that in this mission.
- Maybe rescue a prisoner or get a weapon if you manage to take out the south fort, to help in storming the east fort, and to give you some much needed help on the next mission.

Lyinar
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Joined: February 18th, 2008, 1:23 am

Re: Scenario Review: Crossroads

Post by Lyinar » February 18th, 2008, 5:01 am

Version: 1.2.8

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

Medium.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

9. This was a very tough fight with several reloads.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Crystal.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Straightforward. We're heading east, but oops a scout found us and now there're a few armies in our way. The second ambush warning is just irritating, though.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

While not having to face level 2/3 units was a nice change (aside from the warlords), the sheer number of enemies pumped out - especially those damn Wolf Riders - made this very difficult. Coupled as well with the lack of villages for income/healing. There was a LOT of fighting in this scenario, and while this resulted in several units levelling up, in the end I was at a net LOSS for experienced units (including losing my sole level 3, a Paladin).

I actually killed both leaders, because that was the way the battle flowed - Mr. Green in the south had a larger army and was posing more of a threat than Mr. Blue, who just sort of sat around in his corner. This is also the first scenario where I risked sending out the plot characters, out of dire necessity. Ironically, despite running over the hills willy-nilly with all my other units, only Delfador triggered an ambush.

Three ambushes, actually. All right next to each other.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

2. Having to reload - repeatedly - is not fun. Being massively outnumbered is not fun. There was a unique "feel" to it, though.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Less gold for Mr. Green so his force is harassment-only. Or drop him altogether.

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