Scenario 6: The Siege of Elensefar

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Ranger
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Re: Scenario 6: The Siege of Elensefar

Post by Ranger » June 28th, 2014, 4:33 pm

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
The city was supposed to be overrun by orcs, and as Konrad arrived we see a lonely Orchish Warlord sitting in the tower. Admittedly he's fast at recruiting new units but I guess it would make more impact if there was al least an orc sentinel (archer?) at the one of the each towers near the river. Concordantly reduce the amout of gold of orc leader.
Calling a spear a spoon and then saying "our spoons are different, WINR," is kind of unsatisfying, isn't it?

yahiko
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Re: Scenario 6: The Siege of Elensefar

Post by yahiko » July 27th, 2014, 10:07 am

I've encountered an strange issue. Elrian disapeared from my recalling list.
In the scenario 3 (Isle of Alduin), I've discovered Elrian the Mage who survived during this scenario.
In the scenario 4 (Bay of Pearl), I didn't recall Elrian, but he was present in my recalling list.
In the scenario 5b (Isle of the Damned), I was not allowed to recall Elrian. I discovered Moremirmu the White Mage who survived during this scenario.

Then, in the scenario 6 (The Siege of Elensefar), Moremirmu is present in my recalling list, but Elrian is NOT. Why? Is it normal?

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zookeeper
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Re: Scenario 6: The Siege of Elensefar

Post by zookeeper » July 27th, 2014, 10:57 am

yahiko wrote:I've encountered an strange issue. Elrian disapeared from my recalling list.
In the scenario 3 (Isle of Alduin), I've discovered Elrian the Mage who survived during this scenario.
In the scenario 4 (Bay of Pearl), I didn't recall Elrian, but he was present in my recalling list.
In the scenario 5b (Isle of the Damned), I was not allowed to recall Elrian. I discovered Moremirmu the White Mage who survived during this scenario.

Then, in the scenario 6 (The Siege of Elensefar), Moremirmu is present in my recalling list, but Elrian is NOT. Why? Is it normal?
That's not normal, but I don't see how that would be possible, either. :hmm: What version are you on, and are you absolutely sure about what happened in scenario 4? If you could confirm that and post for example the beginning-of-scenario savefiles for 5b and 6 I'll happily take a look at it.

yahiko
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Re: Scenario 6: The Siege of Elensefar

Post by yahiko » July 27th, 2014, 11:25 am

zookeeper wrote:
yahiko wrote:I've encountered an strange issue. Elrian disapeared from my recalling list.
In the scenario 3 (Isle of Alduin), I've discovered Elrian the Mage who survived during this scenario.
In the scenario 4 (Bay of Pearl), I didn't recall Elrian, but he was present in my recalling list.
In the scenario 5b (Isle of the Damned), I was not allowed to recall Elrian. I discovered Moremirmu the White Mage who survived during this scenario.

Then, in the scenario 6 (The Siege of Elensefar), Moremirmu is present in my recalling list, but Elrian is NOT. Why? Is it normal?
That's not normal, but I don't see how that would be possible, either. :hmm: What version are you on, and are you absolutely sure about what happened in scenario 4? If you could confirm that and post for example the beginning-of-scenario savefiles for 5b and 6 I'll happily take a look at it.
Thank you for your reply. ^^
Here are the savefiles as wished:
HdT-L'Île_des_damnés_revoir_la_partie.gz
Scenario 5b (Isle of the Damned) v1.11.16
(47.33 KiB) Downloaded 217 times
HdT-Le_Siège_d'Elensefar.gz
Scenario 6 (The Siege of Elensefar) v1.11.16
(16.89 KiB) Downloaded 206 times

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zookeeper
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Re: Scenario 6: The Siege of Elensefar

Post by zookeeper » July 27th, 2014, 1:48 pm

yahiko wrote:Thank you for your reply. ^^
Here are the savefiles as wished:
HdT-L'Île_des_damnés_revoir_la_partie.gz
HdT-Le_Siège_d'Elensefar.gz
The first one's a replay, though? In any case, even the replay data doesn't show any trace of Elrian whatsoever, so he must have disappeared already in scenario 4. The only way I can see that happening is if you had played that scenario with 1.11.9 or earlier and had Delfador appear on top of Elrian during the ending dialogue, making him silently disappear (that bug was fixed in 1.11.10).

Funnily enough, the statistics show that no mage was recalled in scenario 4 (only one recruited), and that in no scenario were any mages killed, so I'm not sure what could be happening (unless you indeed played scenario 4 with 1.11.9 or earlier). If you still have beginning-of-scenario saves and replays for scenarios 3-4, could you post them too?

yahiko
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Re: Scenario 6: The Siege of Elensefar

Post by yahiko » July 27th, 2014, 3:33 pm

zookeeper wrote:The first one's a replay, though? In any case, even the replay data doesn't show any trace of Elrian whatsoever, so he must have disappeared already in scenario 4. The only way I can see that happening is if you had played that scenario with 1.11.9 or earlier and had Delfador appear on top of Elrian during the ending dialogue, making him silently disappear (that bug was fixed in 1.11.10).

Funnily enough, the statistics show that no mage was recalled in scenario 4 (only one recruited), and that in no scenario were any mages killed, so I'm not sure what could be happening (unless you indeed played scenario 4 with 1.11.9 or earlier). If you still have beginning-of-scenario saves and replays for scenarios 3-4, could you post them too?
Unfortunately, my previous saves were overwriten by a new run... Sorry...
During scenario 4, I recruited a new mage because I wanted to have an "intelligent" one to make her progress a little bit faster.

I've played those scenarii with v1.11.16 only.
However, I should mention I've installed v1.11.12 in order to execute several replays I've found in some recent posts on topics related to the "Heir to the Throne" campaign.
And two instances of Battle for Wesnoth, v1.11.16 and v1.11.12 were running at the same time on my computer in order to compare my playstyle with some other guys.
Maybe this could have been induced a kind of side effect in the memory which both instances could have shared... Who knows?

I restarted my game from scenario 4 where Elrian were recalled and now at the scenario 6, Elrian is back as expected.
Since I haven't launched a second instance of Battle for Wesnoth, this could be an explanation. Should be tested again I presume.

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zookeeper
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Re: Scenario 6: The Siege of Elensefar

Post by zookeeper » July 27th, 2014, 3:51 pm

yahiko wrote:Unfortunately, my previous saves were overwriten by a new run... Sorry...
During scenario 4, I recruited a new mage because I wanted to have an "intelligent" one to make her progress a little bit faster.

I've played those scenarii with v1.11.16 only.
However, I should mention I've installed v1.11.12 in order to execute several replays I've found in some recent posts on topics related to the "Heir to the Throne" campaign.
And two instances of Battle for Wesnoth, v1.11.16 and v1.11.12 were running at the same time on my computer in order to compare my playstyle with some other guys.
Maybe this could have been induced a kind of side effect in the memory which both instances could have shared... Who knows?

I restarted my game from scenario 4 where Elrian were recalled and now at the scenario 6, Elrian is back as expected.
Since I haven't launched a second instance of Battle for Wesnoth, this could be an explanation. Should be tested again I presume.
Unless you had made both versions use the same userdata directory when installing and somehow ended up having saves/replays mixed up (which sounds very unlikely), then I don't think something like that could ever happen, as the instances wouldn't really share any memory. Not that I have a better explanation to offer, nor is there much to be done unless the issue crops up again in a way that can be reproduced.

yahiko
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Re: Scenario 6: The Siege of Elensefar

Post by yahiko » July 27th, 2014, 7:08 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Difficulty level: Hero (medium)
Version: 1.11.16

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
Very hard: 10
Since I am a rookie, I had to restart the campaign from the begining (ie. from scenario 1) almost TEN times...
It is only by reading some tips on this forum that I realized that the shaman's SLOW effect could not only affect movement points, but also damages inflicted by a foe. Instead of SLOW, this should be called WEAKEN since it is the most important consequence of this effect.

I have just succeeded with some minor casualties (4 shamans and 2 thieves) with the help of the two loyal mages Erian and Moremirmu, 2 Mermen (one with the Storm Trident and the female which turned into a healer), 2 Sorceresses and 2 Druids, several random shamans (from 6, only 2 survived and were upgraded into Druid and Sorceress), three Outlaws obtained and upgraded from the previous scenario (Delurin included), plus a Knight and a Lancer who was Haldiel.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Clear.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
I think this is not possible to succeed this scenario (unless being a genius) as a rookie since it requires much more knowledge than the previous scenarii which were really easy without thinking too carefully.
To a have a good chance in succeeding in this scenario, I think one should understand and execute well those key concepts:
  • Positionning (Zone of Control and Displaying Ennemy's movements)
    Action planning for Day and Night
    Shaman's Slow Effect
    Damage estimation
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
Really interesting. It prove Battle for Wesnoth is a real strategy game.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Maybe this scenario should come a little bit later, in order to smooth the learning curve which is quite steep with this scenario...

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
My lack of skill forced me to restart not only the scenario but the campaign several times...

kiss
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Re: Scenario 6: The Siege of Elensefar

Post by kiss » September 1st, 2014, 1:05 pm

First play as Fighter (beginner) 1.10.7.

This time the map is pretty simple and the storyline is too. 40 turns and a good amount of gold, can I build a strong army here?

Starting stack:
3 level 2: Konrad commander, 1 Elvish Marksman, 1 Outlaw (loyal).
25 level 1 (16 loyal): 6 3/4 lvl 2, 4 1/2 lvl 2 (3 loyal).
Gold (carried over) : 467(287).
Units list: 1 Commander, 2 Elvish Archer, 1 Elvish Fighter, 1 Elvish Marksman, 1 Elvish Scout, 3 Elvish Shaman, 2 Horseman, 2 Mage, 14 Merman Fighter, 1 Merman hunter.

It should be a 4 steps battle. Control the south land, then the city, the north land and the final castle.
My main problem here is to find out if my army is balanced or not? It seems I have to recruit some new units, but which one?
This means 3 recruitement turns, I can aford it, but in which order?
Strategy: I'll try horses to take the villages, recruit new guys, recall veterans.

Turn 1, ..., 5: I decide to wait, usually I try to break through.
Turn 6: yes! It seems I made the good choice this time. Arf I thought they'll appear beyond the assassins!
Turn 7: stupid me!
Turn 8: I have to take a risk, else it will be too difficult. Small loss ... now I have to finish the job and protect my lvl 2.
Turn 9, 16: pfuiiii!
Turn 17, ..., 20: I would choose Captain, but promote to Hero because of hp.
Turn 21, ..., 26: game over.

I was wrong, only 3 steps, the Skeletons are too fast or I'm too slow, no fight in the upper land.
The final surprise me. I wasn't able to find any unit that can enter and reach the boss. At first sight it seems impossible! I take my time, killing units by units, and then I can enter. There is something I've don't understood in that part.
I now understand why this one is said difficult.
I should be far from the perfect play, but I manage attack and defense the best I can. 8 advancements also helps, but it may comes from the campaign design.
Now I have to refuel xp to prepare next advancement group.

Results.
Loss 5/19: 1 Elvish Scout, 1 Mage, 1 Elvish Archer, 1 Thief (loyal), 1 Elvish Fighter.
Total: 1 Elvish Archer, 2 Elvish Fighter, 1 Elvish Scout, 1 Footpad, 2 Horseman, 1 Mage, 1 Mermaid Initiate, 1 Merman Fighter, 2 Merman Warrior, 1 Poacher, 1 Thief, 5 Thug.
Found/recruit: 2 Elvish Fighter, 2 Mage, 1 Rogue (loyal), 2 Thief (loyal), 1 Elvish Lord (loyal).
Advancement 8/12: 1 Elvish Ranger, 1 Elvish Druid, 1 Knight, 1 Lancer, 1 Elvish Sorceress, 1 Elvish Hero, 1 White Mage, 1 Fugitive (loyal).
Total: 1 Commander, 1 Elvish Druid, 1 Elvish Hero, 1 Elvish Marksman, 1 Elvish Ranger, 1 Elvish Sorceress, 1 Fugitive, 1 Knight, 1 Lancer, 2 Merman Warrior, 1 White Mage.
Progress: 1 3/4 lvl 3, 1 1/2 lvl 3, 3 1/2 lvl 2 (1 loyal).
End turn: 26/40.
Gold carried over: 429.
Experience: 26/94 kills.
Overall stat: -1/+5
Units list: 1 Commander, 1 Elder Mage, 1 Elvish Druid, 1 Elvish Fighter, 1 Elvish Hero, 1 Elvish Lord, 1 Elvish Marksman, 1 Elvish Ranger, 1 Elvish Shaman, 1 Elvish Sorceress, 1 Fugitive, 1 Knight, 1 Lancer, 2 Mage, 1 Rogue, 1 White Mage.
Attachments
HttT-The_Siege_of_Elensefar_replay.gz
(36.04 KiB) Downloaded 217 times

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Re: Scenario 6: The Siege of Elensefar

Post by SigurdFireDragon » March 5th, 2016, 5:54 pm

Played on 1.12.5 Hero (Normal) 328 Gold

I think the thieves dialog for infiltrating the city could be made clearer, perhaps by blinking a marker on the west side docks. As my replay shows, I didn't really get the meaning of it.

Also the advisor's dialog could be be made stronger by replacing "this will not be easy!" with something like "this will be a real challenge!"
Attachments
HttT-The_Siege_of_Elensefar_replay.gz
1.12.5 Normal
(63.8 KiB) Downloaded 173 times

Caladbolg
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Re: Scenario 6: The Siege of Elensefar

Post by Caladbolg » March 11th, 2016, 8:20 pm

Because this is the first "big" scenario, this review will also be quite long so I'll use spoilers.
About the previous scenarios:
Review by the points in initial post:
(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.12.5. Medium

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7.5. Hardest so far, slightly harder than the isle of the damned.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Couldn't be clearer.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Better than on previous scenarios.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Handling the initial contact with the orcs. I wanted to rush them with horsemen while it was still day but they didn't cross the bridge and charging onto Elensefar was too risky. As a result, I had to hold the defensive line by the water at night and horsemen are less than ideal for that. I think I could've made better choices with regards to recalls. Also, arranging a formation which won't get many of my units killed.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6. Fairly enjoyable and getting the thieves is a nice bonus even though I'm not particularly fond of them.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Nothing I can think of at the moment.
Some other notes and review of more important turns in the replay provided:
Attachments
HttT-The_Siege_of_Elensefar_replay.gz
(60.38 KiB) Downloaded 190 times

rapplegong
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Re: Scenario 6: The Siege of Elensefar

Post by rapplegong » September 14th, 2016, 10:08 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Medium

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
10

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Interesting and cliched

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The mob of high level enemies coming in waves, no pause in between.
No indication that one needs to be more prepared for the spike in difficulty. It feels as if this mission was designed for the player to be caught off guard and lose.
Too little info why one would choose one thieves' guild's offer over the other.
The trigger of advanced undead units in the end. More the merrier, is that it?
The RNG.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
1

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
You already know the answer. After 12 years, all the changes would already have been made. This is the funnest as it will gonna get.

amanII
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Re: Scenario 6: The Siege of Elensefar

Post by amanII » October 31st, 2016, 6:15 am

Content Feedback wrote:(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
1.easy/medium

2.4,5;whatever is so hard about this scenario is beyond me

3.couldn't be easier to understand

4.the storyline was pretty good

6.10

7.nothing

5.killing the orcish leader(though this is the reason for my 10/10 rating on #6).

MrA4
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Re: Scenario 6: The Siege of Elensefar

Post by MrA4 » March 21st, 2017, 9:39 am

(1) Champion (Challenging) 1.12.6
(2) 6.
(3) Perfectly clear
(4) This is probably the pinnacle for both the story line and dialog for this Campaign.
(5) The biggest challenge is killing the first leader and as many of his men before the dead come into the city. If you aren't careful you won't have enough firepower. Also, if you just sit back and wait on the bank or in the woods (near the start) you won't have enough time to kill the second leader.
(6) 10. This is my favorite scenario (possibly for all of the Wesnoth campaigns I've played. It would take some doing to top this scenario.)
(7) Absolutely none.
Attachments
HttT-The_Siege_of_Elensefar_replay.gz
(60.36 KiB) Downloaded 135 times

ludna
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Re: Scenario 6: The Siege of Elensefar

Post by ludna » May 10th, 2018, 9:30 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
easy, medium
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
on easy 1, on medium 11 impossible
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
ok
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
skeletons too early in town
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
on medium no fun at all
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
less unit spam and gold for the AI

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