Scenario 6: The Siege of Elensefar

Feedback for the mainline campaign Heir to the Throne.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Post Reply
Jigsawn
Posts: 15
Joined: January 29th, 2008, 7:52 pm
Location: Midlands, UK

Post by Jigsawn » February 11th, 2008, 3:31 am

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Medium (Wesnoth version 1.3.14)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
9 - Again I have the same issues as ClimbingEast on the previous page

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Pretty good.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

I managed to do this after a large number of attempts the first time round - though only just (and all of my high level units got killed). However, on reloading the scenario after I got stuck on Princess of Wesnoth, I couldn't complete it at all!

Basically to push forwards to the Necromancer in time you generally get all of your high level units killed. If you leave it too late then there's too many skeletons and they get inside the city. New recruits take too long to kill the Orcs and skeletons so they only work in gangbang raids.

The time that I did do it, I got lucky with a merman who seemed to fudge up the skeleton AI a bit and distracted quite a lot of them up near the upper bridge to the mainland.

In addition to the general difficulty problem of the scenario, you end up losing lots of units to the skeletons as you advance into the Necromancers lair - because the entrances are only 2 thick, you can only attack one out of 2 skeletons, and that means that the 2 troops you put in those 2 spaces are going to die or be heavily injured. It also holds up the advance at the very end.

It's also worth pointing out that any thieves you use always die. Even with max cover they are no match for a few Orcs or skeletons, and to use backstab they generally end up on the frontline (without backstab they are useless). And using backstab still lets the enemies attack them, and often they will kill the theif in the process.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

9 falling to 6 - it's good initially but the fun wavers when you continually get defeated. I think if it was easier it would be consistently good.


(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

To address the difficulty:
- Make the Thieves who join you a higher level.
- Reduce the number or level of orcs in the city, or give them units which have less attack damage.
- Scale back the number of skeletons who initially come down to the city (on one occasion there must have been 12 or so there! Nightmare!)
- Widen the entrances to the Necromancers cave, or at least get rid of the tunnel effect
- Increase the turn limit by 2-4 turns.
- Make this mission fairer so you don't have to sacrifice all your high level units!

Lyinar
Posts: 13
Joined: February 18th, 2008, 1:23 am

Re: Scenario Review: The Siege of Elensefar

Post by Lyinar » February 18th, 2008, 4:12 am

Version: 1.2.8

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

Medium

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

Oh, about an 8, I think.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Crystal.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

The dialog was clear. The undead, though ... that just seemed tacked-on. Why are they there? What do they care? Why aren't they also fighting the Orcs? They had no purpose.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

The Orcs. Their level 2 units, Assassins with Poison attack and universally high defense ... just painful. The first time through they slaughtered all my units (including my level 2's). The second time was when I won. It all came down to the random number generator on attacks when engaging the orcs. If my cavalry overran them with their charge, it was good. If not, the level 2 warrior's return swing would decimate them, or the Assassin would Poison on the next turn.

The undead are, of course, highly resistant to nearly all your units, but I had a few Thugs from Isle of the Damn, one of my Knights upgraded to Paladin fighting the Orcs (Holy sword! Yay!) and Elrien by that time had levelled up to White Mage.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

6. Good concept, nice twist with the thieves (I chose for them to spawn as reinforcements) but the undead are unnecessary and always a fun-killer (being resistant to almost everything) and reloading always lowers the fun factor.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Fewer assassins for the Orcs. Nix the undead - replace with more Orcs, either a weaker (note: WEAKER) leader or a one-time spawn of reinforcements. Or maybe a static spawn guarding villagers they've taken hostage from the city or something.

Helios
Posts: 2
Joined: February 18th, 2008, 7:16 pm
Location: Cervia
Contact:

Post by Helios » February 19th, 2008, 1:06 pm

(1) normal
(2) 9-10

actually the first time i got at this scenario my troops were too low to face the orcs, and for this reason i restarted the campaign.

The second time i had: Konrad lvl 3 + 2 other units lvl 3 + 4 units lvl 2

And i ended this with 5 units lvl 3 + 3 units lvl 2

(3) 10
(4) 8
(5) the orcs were sooo hard to beat
(6) 8, hard but fun
(7) Uhm i think i would give a hand to Konrad with an ally, becoming a 2vs2 with more fun

GekigangerIII
Posts: 5
Joined: January 24th, 2008, 12:02 am

Re: Scenario Review: The Siege of Elensefar

Post by GekigangerIII » February 22nd, 2008, 10:24 pm

(1) Medium difficulty.
(2) 8/10, perhaps. Easily the hardest so far.
(3) Very clear.
(4) Good enough.
(5) In most scenarios I can basically wait for the enemy to come to me. In this scenario, if I try that, then the skeletons catch up to the orcs and I have to fight them both at once.

The first time I played Battle for Wesnoth, several times I got as far as this scenario and found my units were too weak and had to go back and replay the previous scenarios.

The thieves are worthless in combat, especially against skeletons, but I feel guilty when I use them as decoys and let them die.

(6) 4/10, perhaps.
(7) Put the skeletons farther away from the orcs so that I have more time before they arrive. Or make the orcs weaker (lower level). Make the thieves (other than Reglok) non-loyal?

User avatar
Buddy Jimm
Posts: 48
Joined: July 25th, 2006, 11:54 pm

Post by Buddy Jimm » March 2nd, 2008, 4:16 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

Medium, 1.3.17

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

9. It's really a different game from the easy level, where there's not enough units against you to form strong fronts from all directions. Now, it's too dangerous to go in before full daylight, but then you -must- rush on some front before the undead get fully settled or you get overwhelmed(or at least forced to defend your side of the river until time runs out).

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Good stuff.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Picking a movement strategy that will get into the city! "I pray you do not lead us into slaughter" indeed. Against Orcish Warriors and undead, the thieves are critical as momentary distractions, but little else. They provide a few bullseyes, steal some gold, and then fall over.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

6. It's a real test of your skills as a commander("There will be a slaughter here, but it will be blood of the blue-haired staining the streets." "Saywut, sir?"). But the final push at the necromancer's doormat is a real slog, and many of your units may as well break for coffee.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

I wouldn't be against toning both teams down a little, at least on Medium. I never had this much trouble on any other scenario in this campaign, before or after.

mlangc
Posts: 0
Joined: September 21st, 2006, 5:48 pm

Re: Scenario Review: The Siege of Elensefar

Post by mlangc » March 27th, 2008, 10:47 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
medium (wesnoth-1.4)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
6

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
crystal clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
fine

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
occupying the orcs stronghold

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
10

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
i think it's quite fine the way it is

SumnerH
Posts: 15
Joined: January 9th, 2008, 6:01 am

Re: Scenario Review: The Siege of Elensefar

Post by SumnerH » April 7th, 2008, 6:54 pm

I'm filling these out having done Elves Beseiged-A Choice Must Be Made on "medium" difficulty, and I'm following the advice to rank 10=hardest scenario in the campaign (Seige of Elsenfar), 1 = easiest (Elves Besieged)

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Medium, Wesnoth version 1.4
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) [1]
10, by far the hardest of the campaign (given that I'm only just finished with "A Choice Must Be Made"
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Crystal.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
They were okay, but I can't remember details--if it doesn't explain the importance of the city to Konrad's goals, that could be done (but it might be fine already).
(5) What were your major challenges in completing the scenario?
Taking the city center without sustaining massive losses.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
9/3; overall a 6. The initial battle for the city is very fun. Doing undead mopup duty is boring as heck (but having the undead streaming down to the city is important for time pressure!)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Maybe make it "take over the city and then hold it with zero hostiles inside for 2 turns", rather than having to do the slog through the countryside to assasinate another leader?

Rogrog
Posts: 0
Joined: March 26th, 2008, 9:11 pm

Re: Scenario Review: The Siege of Elensefar

Post by Rogrog » April 14th, 2008, 9:16 pm

1. Challenging on version 1.4.1

2. 8 or 9 - I had to reload several times, because in this scenario, you have to play it nearly perfectly in order to make it out with some of your level 2 and 3 units intact.

3. Perfectly clear.

4. I'd have preferred more on why this city in particular is important, as opposed to something that you just run into for the heck of it. Why go to the trouble of announcing your presence by launching an invasion unless the place is really important?

5. Invading the city - really bloody hard with the orcs and undead to deal with.

6. I'd say 6 or 7 - it toes to fine line between challanging and overly frustrating. It could easily be an 8 or 9 with some adjustments.

7. My recommendation: take out the undead. What purpose do they serve here anyway? Is the evil queen allied with necromancers too (I haven't played the whole campaign yet, so I wouldn't know, but you'd think that this would be an important plot point if they're in cahoots). Just storming the castle is fun and interesting, having to do it with some unrelated undead who don't seem to fit into the scenario is annoying from both a practical and a storyline perspective.

Arthur Archnix
Posts: 0
Joined: April 22nd, 2008, 1:16 am

Re: Scenario Review: The Siege of Elensefar

Post by Arthur Archnix » April 22nd, 2008, 1:33 am

(1) Medium
(2) 8
(3) Clear
(4) Clear. Interesting.
(5) Played this on 1.2 and couldn't pass it. Numerous campaign restarts. Made it by on the first time on 1.4.

Those footpads and bullies you pick up on the isle of the damned absorb a lot of punishment. The first day I sent a strong force to the main gate which drew a lot of orc attention. When night came I pulled them back and stuffed the entrace with resiliant footpads and some merman / healer support. A ranger was snuck into the city that evening (which brought the theives out) and they were used to draw off some of the orc forces at the main gate. That morning I busted in the front and side.

It's a good thing I got control of the city before the skeletons closed in, because I was able to use up the last of my cannon fodder and then threw a few waves of mages at them while scooping up villages and waiting for dawn. Before dawn broke I sent a ranger and a knight up the right side, and a merman up the left, capturing villages thinking to wear down my opponent and try to slow the influx of skeletonators. That morning though I got lucky, threw a horsie out in front of the castle to buy some advancement time and out walks the necromancer. Trapped him and killed him.

It it wasn't for the fact that I think I got real lucky, and that I could not finish it for the life of me before, I'd give this level a 9. At 10 I throw the computer out the window. :P

(6) 3. Because once you're done it, you never want to do it again.

(7) Well, I love the undead, and those that don't get it should play some of the other campaigns, then you'll understand where they come from and why they're there. Put a treasure chest beside the necromancer cave. It'd be a nice insurance policy if you could send a merman up that way to pick it up in case your attack it thwarted and you need to retreat and regroup. If you don't manage to get the city on the first try, it's pretty much over. But you should still be able to slip a unit or two past the defenses and go for that hail mary that buys you one more crack at the (now) very, very well guarded city.

zyx
Posts: 0
Joined: May 2nd, 2008, 9:29 pm

Re: Scenario Review: The Siege of Elensefar

Post by zyx » May 2nd, 2008, 10:26 pm

(1) Medium
(2) 3
(3) Clear
(4) Clear and interesting
(5) No defeated units.
(6) 5
(7)

vicza
Posts: 238
Joined: January 16th, 2008, 11:40 pm
Location: Moscow

Re: Scenario Review: The Siege of Elensefar

Post by vicza » May 22nd, 2008, 8:08 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

EASY, NORMAL

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

On EASY it's not hard, but on NORMAL -- I'd say, 8.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Quite clear.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Kill orcish leader before skeletons arrive, of course.

In general, I think, this scenario presumes that the player comes here from the Peninsula. Then he can have many advanced troops. But I usually prefer the Island, it's more useful, but you have no possibility to advance your usual troops there. And orcs have high-level warriors and crossbowmen. So, I usually have to recruit several kamikaze-horsemen, who try to kill the orcish leader. And then thieves come and finish him. Once the orcish leader is killed and Konrad is in his keep, the rest part is easier.

I think, this scenario should be made easier on NORMAL level. For example, give UD less villages. Currently it's

Code: Select all

    {STARTING_VILLAGES 2 10}
    {STARTING_VILLAGES 3 20}
on both normal and hard. I think, if on NORMAL it'd be

Code: Select all

    {STARTING_VILLAGES 2 7}
    {STARTING_VILLAGES 3 10}
it would be more appropriate.


And another suggestion. On turn 4, thieves appear and ask, which help Konrad prefers. Sometimes, this choice may be dependent on the current situation. The problem is, the player does not see the situation, because the focus was changed to the thieves. Maybe, it would be good, before he answers, made scroll_to to the city, then some delay, and only then the window "Hmm... I have to consider this..."


And another thing about thives:

Code: Select all

        [unit]
            description=Reglok
            user_description= _ "Reglok"
            type=Rogue
            side=1
            x=23
            y=40
            gender=male
            [modifications]
                {TRAIT_LOYAL}
                {TRAIT_INTELLIGENT}
            [/modifications]
        [/unit]
        #Make her female
        [store_unit]
            [filter]
                description=Reglok
            [/filter]
            kill=yes
            variable=tempthief
        [/store_unit]

        [set_variable]
            name=tempthief.gender
            value=female
        [/set_variable]

        [move_unit_fake]
            type=$tempthief.type
            side=1
            x=24,24,23
            y=38,39,40
        [/move_unit_fake]

        [unstore_unit]
            variable=tempthief
            find_vacant=yes
        [/unstore_unit]

Why so complicated? If she has to be female (why, btw?), why not simply write 'gender=female'.

psvensson
Posts: 9
Joined: August 11th, 2008, 7:05 pm

Re: Scenario Review: The Siege of Elensefar

Post by psvensson » August 20th, 2008, 2:06 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

Easy on 1.2.x and Normal on 1.4.3

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

7-8, probably. When I was new to Wesnoth and played on Easy, this scenario stumped me. Now that I have some experience, I finished it on Normal, but it was still tough, particularly since I wanted to preserve some of my favorite units.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Fairly clear, but the dialog is not terribly interesting.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

The orcs are hard hitters. The skeletons slightly less so. The really big challenge is dealing with the necromancer - players who don't manage to lure him out of the cave will find the going extremely tough.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

8. I like the map and the thieves.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

I found it too hard for a novice player on Easy, but that was on Wesnoth 1.2. The difficulty level is certainly a big jump over previous scenarios on the campaign.

BesucherXia
Posts: 1
Joined: August 23rd, 2008, 7:15 am

Re: Scenario Review: The Siege of Elensefar

Post by BesucherXia » August 23rd, 2008, 8:06 am

1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Normal on 1.5.2

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8, I have to load my game quite a few to save my high level units

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Sorry I did not read them throughly.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
During the siege, I had difficulties to defeat the enemy commander while the skeleton reinforcements were keeping on joining the battle. It was really tough to keep my valueable units surviving.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
9. One of the greatest challenge.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I think we can move the player's start position more close to the river. In recent setting, I felt my tritons quite useless since they could not move into water quickly and henceforth were quite useless for the battle.
Also I think it would be more fun if we could give the theives 3rd plan: They could start assulting the village at a certain time, i.e: 2nd midnight. In this case they would make some more sabotage, i.e: block the gate to habor / north entrance, etc.

Ps. Bug: If I ask thieves to join in the battle as soon as " building inside the castle is flagged" while I have already units in it (I once planned to rush into the castle), they will just ignore it.
I think they should appear more early.

User avatar
sur.nhm
Posts: 630
Joined: September 4th, 2008, 12:10 pm
Location: in /dev/null...

Re: Scenario Review: The Siege of Elensefar

Post by sur.nhm » September 7th, 2008, 7:17 am

1) easy on 1.4.1.
2) 7, the undead are pretty annoying but the orcs were easy especially with the thieves' help.
3) clear.
4) not very much to read, I'd prefer more story.
5)then again, the undead as at this stage you have next to nought smashing and/or fire/arcane units ( except magi ).
6) 7, beacause of the undead. aside from that, 9.
7) as BesucherXia wrote, I think that the player should start closer to the river as the mermen were quite useless. :evil:
I'm not really around any more, but you can find me in TvTropes.

kusut
Posts: 5
Joined: October 12th, 2008, 3:48 pm

Re: Scenario Review: The Siege of Elensefar

Post by kusut » October 12th, 2008, 4:06 pm

Hello Im new
Dave wrote:(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Hard
Dave wrote:(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
10. Cant beat it so far.
Dave wrote:(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear
Dave wrote:(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Clear.
Dave wrote:(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
not enough turns. I tend to play safe. Maybe I havent found the best formation/units for this scenario.
Dave wrote:(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7-10
Dave wrote:(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
More turns available on hard. Shorten the map (especially the distance between Konrad' castle and Elsenfar).
pardon my english

Post Reply