Scenario 05b: Isles of the Damned

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Buddy Jimm
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Post by Buddy Jimm » February 29th, 2008, 1:35 am

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

Medium 1.3.17

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

About 5. Survival is pretty easy if you've had experience with outlaws before. But the really hard terrain makes it difficult for Moremirmu to take swings at both liches before time runs out, so if you want him to hang around, you have to pay in footpads.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

It's pretty good.


(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Picking a good unit mix, mostly. It's unusual to make footpads the core of your assault (the only other place I recall doing this is the sneak attack on the heavy infantry in Liberty, and the reasons were more obvious), but the other outlaws are just not much help(poachers can do very little, thugs are slow and can't attack without getting drained -- but you should still recruit a couple), so you're mainly looking at footpads and mermaid initiates, neither of which can attack the liches without dying frequently.

(and I do recommend a few mermaid initiates to kill at least one lich. They aren't useful for most of the map, and they do still tend to die to liches, but they have pretty much the best combination level 1's can have for taking out a lich in this situation -- magical impact ranged attack, easy access/escape, opposite alignment, and even cold resistance. I tend to use Moremirmu & footpads for the south lich and mermaids & footpads for killing the north one. Of course, getting through their armies is another matter).

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

8. This is actually a really good scenario, though its scope of outlaw use is fairly limited.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

I want to say add more roads so thugs and poachers can get around more, but this would probably make beating the liches easier. Maybe just add road between the keep and mainland.

tungdil
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Post by tungdil » March 3rd, 2008, 10:55 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

Medium 1.3.19

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

5. Moremirmu can only kill one liche. The other one was too far away. I haven't played outlaws before, but have fast recognized that one type of fighter is enough. Have only recruited footpads (too much of them), and recalled five of my merfolk.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Very clear - no understanding problem.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Good. I would like to get some more details after finding Moremirmu, but this is personal preference and holds for every scenario of this campaign.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Don't loosing my merfolk people. Maybe I would need them in other campaign scenarios. I have used the merfolk to split the liches army in the south. First getting all villages and second swim in the near of the villages, if the liche try to get them back.
The northern liche where killed lonly by a bulk of footpads.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

8. I like this scenario. where it's able to use the terrain (jungle, hills etc. for footpads)

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Put a little more villages into it, so it would be possible to play the scenario to the full length and getting more bonus than finishing earlier. And the liches could build more resistance against the human invaders. Also other hidding mages would be a nice idea?

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theruler
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Re: Scenario Review: HttT - Isles of the Damned

Post by theruler » March 22nd, 2008, 12:16 am

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
normal on 1.4.0

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
easy to understand

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
an interlude scenario. Not useful for the campaign but pretty fun to play.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
kill the skeletons with the mermen!
3 mermen were able to kill a single skeleton in 4 rounds!
and... why do skeletons can swim (even in deep waters!?!)?
100 gold at the beginning ar fine to me.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7 - really funny. And I liked the 3 temples distraction.
It is funny to aquire two lvl2 units like that!

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
mix the temples on any re-load. (I've found the mage on my first attempt, but when I tried to open the remaining temples I got surprised!... nice to find some villains in it, but I would suggest to let the mage speak about possible risks visiting the other temples... but the bravery should be rewarded... You could find an healing potion or an ancient staff in the last temple... or a magic scroll defeating the last undead infesting the temple.
cut out some forest.
Chuck Norris' watch displays only an hour. Yours.

zyx
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Joined: May 2nd, 2008, 9:29 pm

Re: Scenario Review: HttT - Isles of the Damned

Post by zyx » May 2nd, 2008, 10:21 pm

(1) Medium
(2) 2
(3) Clear
(4) Clear and interesting
(5) No defeated units.
(6) 5
(7)

vicza
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Re: Scenario Review: HttT - Isles of the Damned

Post by vicza » May 22nd, 2008, 7:58 pm

Don't you think the money counting in this scenario is wrong? For example, after the previous scenario (the Bay) we have (with the bonus) 400 gold. 20% are subtracted, so we have 320. This sum is saved, and this scenario we begin with 100 gold. And finish it, say, with 80 gold. Then, this sum is added to the saved one, and from resulting amount are again subtracted 20%. So, from most part of these money 20% is subtracted twice. I think, it's not fair. These 320 gold weren't used in this scenario, why subtract % from them? I think, it would be more correct, if 20% were subtracted only from gold in this scenario (in our case 80-20%=64) and then this sum would be added to the saved sum from the Bay.

Jozrael
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Re: Scenario Review: HttT - Isles of the Damned

Post by Jozrael » May 25th, 2008, 5:23 pm

vicza wrote:Don't you think the money counting in this scenario is wrong? For example, after the previous scenario (the Bay) we have (with the bonus) 400 gold. 20% are subtracted, so we have 320. This sum is saved, and this scenario we begin with 100 gold. And finish it, say, with 80 gold. Then, this sum is added to the saved one, and from resulting amount are again subtracted 20%. So, from most part of these money 20% is subtracted twice. I think, it's not fair. These 320 gold weren't used in this scenario, why subtract % from them? I think, it would be more correct, if 20% were subtracted only from gold in this scenario (in our case 80-20%=64) and then this sum would be added to the saved sum from the Bay.
/signed

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markm
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Re: Scenario Review: HttT - Isles of the Damned

Post by markm » August 14th, 2008, 10:15 am

The files loss / crash lost my previous posts (a good thing, no doubt, at least according to the theory that the universe is after all perfect. ;))

Meanwhile I have now completed the Heir to the Throne campaign but by the end of the campaign I have, along the way, lost more than one loyal unit. (A merman or two, maybe even three, not sure exactly, shame on me, how could I so casually dismiss such losses. Hmm, unless Konrad is callous might he, due to those losses, be potentially interested in various scams, plans, cults, hairbrained ideas, religions, faiths, magicks, or whatever that might somehow either offer consolation ("they went to a better place", "pie in the sky when you die well", "the Valkyries will have come for them, you'll meet them again if you too earn Valhalla", or whatever) or a campaign to change the past in such a way to have them survive, or some plan to in the future take more care of one's loyal people, or something? Hmm. ;))

I have yet to see a point in taking the Peninsula route, I love this island scenario. Footpads are awesome! I come here to get footpads for future use. When I got 'stuck' at the Princess's Revenge scenario I came back and replayed so as to come to this island for Moremiru, because although I had killed both liches I had not encountered Moremiru, I had no clue any such critter existed until I read in desperation the hints about the Princess's Revenge scenario. I then realised that having killed both liches I should have tried to get Moremiru. Instead I had avoid the temples due to already knowing in previous play that at least one was a trap, and the fact that the undead in the trap claimed to be searching for mages made no sense at all to me. Huh? Why would they be searching for mages? What clue do they have that any mages exist? Are they talking about my mages, they maybe know I have visited the Isle of Alduin or they know I am a friend of Delfador or what? Their dialog could make it clearer that there is a reason why they are hunting for or searching for mages. (Do they have a 'thing' about mages, their reason for not passing on into a piedish in the sky being they want to rid the world of mages before passing on? Are they searching for one or both liches for revenge against them for forcing them into undead servitude? Do they mean evil mages or good mages? Etc. Some clue that there might in fact not only actually be or at least have been a mage in the vicinity and{|/or} it was or is a mage that might not kill me on sight (such as the kind of mage sometimes referred to as a 'lich' might do...))

I love this scenario though. I think it might be an important one for overall faction strategy and the Temporal Coldwar (or Temporal Hot War even, maybe).

[ Because footpad-faction players will likely tend to like to have any Konrad whom they can influence in any way take this route so that footpads end up with more influence at court than they might if Konrad took the other route, and Elf-faction players (I was/am "Elflord" in Booner's "TKC", and my own RolePlayingGame world D'ydii was founded originally by Elves) as well as, maybe, Loyalist-faction players might prefer to try to influence Konrad into upgrading troops, either Elves or the Human chivalry lines... ]

It seems to make some kind of chronodynamic sense that the branch of timelines between timelines in which Konrad went to this island and timelines in which he did not is actually still an existing branch, not having yet been 'pruned' from the timeline-tree of all acceptable-to-the-winning-faction timelines. :)

It was awesomely annoying not to find out until the Princess's Revenge cheat-sheet that killing both liches could potentially have resulted in a reward. I killed them both and so what? If I understand the various cheatsheets/hints/etc correctly killing the liches is pretty much irrelevant if you didn't also trigger Moremiru, as he/she will only appear in the revenge scenario if you had actually met previously?

-MarkM-
Developing Between the Worlds campaign portmanteau.
Have you eaten today?

AThousandYoung
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Re: Scenario Review: HttT - Isles of the Damned

Post by AThousandYoung » March 12th, 2009, 12:24 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

Challenging, 1.4.7

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

6 - Easy to beat, easy to get Morimoru with luck, spoilers and a plan, hard without spoilers. I did come up with my Initiate assassin squads though. It's all about the Initiate spam!

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

9

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

7

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Trying to kill the Lichs with land units.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

5 - I spent too much time looking up spoilers.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Eliminate the undead in one temple. They make it too hard unless you're lucky and don't get them.

Grisogonus
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Re: Scenario Review: HttT - Isles of the Damned

Post by Grisogonus » April 26th, 2009, 10:18 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?



(1) Medium difficulty, version 1.6.1.
(2) 7 - a challenging one. My first try was a bummer. I replayed the scenario then, changing strategy this time. I recruited many mermen (I had 2 upgraded from Bay of Pearls) and harassed undead in the south, surprisingly they turned on me, but couldn't mach me in the water. With them busy in the south, it wasn't hard to run over the northern lich with Moremirmu and footpads. In the end I got one outlaw and a merman triton lol, that one proved great, although it wasn't the one with a super trident. I still had to reload when I was ambushed by the skeleton guy...
(3) Objective was clear, but the fact that Moremirmu would join Konrad in the fututre if both liches were killed was not so clear.
(4) Very good.
(5) Splitting undead forces, because when they both attack you in that northern jungle, you don't have time to kill either of the liches.
(6) 9 - Very fun, very unexpected, since I believed I would have my units all the way to the last scenario. I definitely recommend this scenario as something quite different.
(7) None, whatsoever!

dELFador
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Joined: May 20th, 2009, 4:40 am

Re: Scenario Review: HttT - Isles of the Damned

Post by dELFador » May 24th, 2009, 12:25 pm

(1) What difficulty level and Wesnoth version have you played the scenario on?
medium. 1.7
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10
9.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
very clear.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
quite interesting.
(5) What were your major challenges in completing the scenario?
not having my elite units.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
9.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
none.

my strategy was to have massive amounts of thugs and take out the northern lich and use his keep, then have moremirmu and the outlaw stay near the villages at the middle to hold off part of the southern lich's units (with newly recruited thugs and merfolk to back them up.)

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drachefly
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Re: Scenario Review: HttT - Isles of the Damned

Post by drachefly » September 30th, 2009, 3:07 pm

Whoa, I just had a great idea on how to reduce the randomness of the temples --

At end of turn, if you have a unit next to the ambush temple, you're warned with a dialog. That way you can take it just a little slow to avoid catastrophe.
What saves a man is to take a step. Then another step. It is always the same step, but you have to take it. -- You-know-who
The Kingdom Of Loathing Era

Schierke
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Re: Scenario Review: HttT - Isles of the Damned

Post by Schierke » March 8th, 2010, 3:05 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

Medium, 1.6.5.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

3 for the basic objectives, 7 or 8 if i try to kill the Liches to get Moremirmu.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear enough.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

It was fine, although a little background into the story of the island, the outlaws and why is Moremirmu there.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

The lack of moblity and variety of your troops, makes it hard to deal with the enemy, plus the Liches are really hard to kill, even at day, without taking heavy losses.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

5, a little too frustrating at times.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Give some sort of extra reward for killing the two Liches, maybe Moremirmu could bring some disciples with him or something.

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Nalfeshnee
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Re: Scenario Review: HttT - Isles of the Damned

Post by Nalfeshnee » June 2nd, 2010, 3:27 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

Latest version to date 1.8.x and Beginner level. I have played HTtT 1 and 2 and nothing else yet.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

9. It took me four goes – see below though... scenario 1 and 2 I would rate as 1-2 – I beat them both on first try.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Very clear. In fact, by Go #2, I guessed that killing both liches would "hire me" the Mage so I aimed at this when replaying. The first time I just tried to stay alive and failed utterly.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Simple and clear, but more cut-scene art would have been great (I wish I were an artist and could help). See also below about text.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Lots and lots, here are some:

- Being faced with undead for the first time. They can go over any terrain, they drain, they hit hard, etc., etc.
- Suddenly being faced with completely new units to command (even the mermen have to be used differently)
- Learning how to keep a mage alive (and use his healing powers)
- Learning how to kick mage butt (dark adepts)
- Reading unit strengths and weaknesses more carefully. The Thugs were much more powerful than I initially thought.
- Learning to use terrain (the swamps are great for mermen if you notice them!)
- Making sure of village capture. This scenario is almost impossible if you don't send mermen off to get the 10+ villages you get for free.
- Actually using strategy. The first 2 scenarios were dead easy (I finished the second with like the Federal Reserve in my account and with about 25% of the turns done). This one requires you to think out a strategy and stick to it. Otherwise you'll simply get swamped by the troops.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

10. This is the scenario where I realized how great Wesnoth really is. But you have to rise to the challenge... I was totally happy when I beat it, killing both liches on Turn 27 of 27 on my last possible (combat) move. That makes a fun game.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

I wouldn't change much, except to add more context for newbies. The points I made above are I believe all relevant for newbie players. Knowing a little more about how challenging this scenario is would help - we could have more background about someone advising Konrad to choose a strategy, introducing the undead, etc., etc. We had this with the mermen in Scenario 2 and it was useful. With this Scenario, it's great being thrown in the deep end and beating the game, but it could have been made even more enjoyable.

However, the learning curve is steep. How this scenario works on hard is beyond me :=)

Update: Then again, I did kill both liches without using Moremimiru (whatever...) – he was of more use as a healer behind the lines. I also did the entire scenario with no upgraded units (since I am still learning about upgrading them and had only upgraded horsemen the last time). I do now have a Mermaid Priestess though...

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Sam-Lloyd
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Re: Scenario Review: HttT - Isles of the Damned

Post by Sam-Lloyd » June 10th, 2010, 12:38 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Challenging 1.8.1

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Good enough

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Just according to me, this branch is very essential to complete successfully the next scenario because of the importance of outlaws.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
5

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
No idea yet
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kea
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Re: Scenario Review: HttT - Isles of the Damned

Post by kea » July 18th, 2010, 9:58 pm

First real run with wesnoth.

(1) 1.8.3, normal.

(2) 7 for survival, 10 and more for killing both the sons of a lich.

(3) Rather clear.

(4) OK.

(5) Oh well... You name it. :mrgreen:
Extremely short timing, poor resources, numerous and powerful enemies, frail and slow mage who always comes out of the woods AFTER the zombies....

(6) As a standalone scenario, I think it is very good/motivating, with a high replay value.
Problem is, included in a campaign for beginners, it is down right frustrating. It is NOT a scenario for beginners. (or maybe a final level. Anyway this is way too soon)
Killing the two bosses would require numerous tries and a solid amount of luck. Point is : one wants to move on and follow the story.
I tried 4 times, and I eventually got happy with bare survival, so I decided to move on...
Then I discovered the next level, which I started half naked. No mage, no money, strong soldiers gone, and a hell of a time ahead... :annoyed:
Guess I'll have to try all over again, or try the other path.
Come to think about it, the fun is decreasing every second I think about doing the all thing once again. :?

(7) The mission is fun as it is, but in this campaign, it makes the difficulty curve go just crazy. The step is too steep. Especially with what comes after. These two scenarios in a row are definitely a massive turn down for any new player.
At the very least, there should be a warning when the player has to choose his path. Something like : go by boat ? (for TRVE reckless hardcore freaks) or walk ? (for human beeings)
Also, I second the one who said it would be a good idea to increase the number of turns if the player beats one of the sons of liches. Would give a chance to finish it before going crazy.

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