Scenario 4: Bay of Pearls

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Mille
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Post by Mille » May 25th, 2006, 10:12 am

I love this scenario.
Its my favorite wesnoth scenario and i love this stupid sea orc:)

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Baufo
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Post by Baufo » June 13th, 2006, 8:53 pm

(1) Hard
(2) 10
(3) Very clear
(4) Nice. Bugg rocks 8)
(5) That's the actually the purpose for this post: It's just too hard! I am very pleased how I have done in the previous scenarios: I have already got an elvish sorcress, a captain and an elvish long bow man, and a big number of level one rather close too advancing as well as about 400 gold but it's impossible to win the sea battle with (IIRC) 6 mermen against an army of nagas and bats without being terrible lucky. (The combat will also always begin at night, if you run away you will never again be able to free the mermen in the east village which means that you have only got 3 mermen.) An the land battle can also not be won in time because of the river next to my keep. It's just impossible with normal luck :? :?
(6) 5
(7) Give more mermen on hard... :roll:
I was working on the proof of one of my poems all the morning, and took out a comma. In the afternoon I put it back again. -- Oscar Wilde

Sly
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Post by Sly » June 13th, 2006, 9:06 pm

Baufo wrote:(7) Give more mermen on hard... :roll:
Wasn't freeing the mermen in the northern cave sufficient ?

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Post by scott » June 13th, 2006, 11:36 pm

Sly wrote:
Baufo wrote:(7) Give more mermen on hard... :roll:
Wasn't freeing the mermen in the northern cave sufficient ?
There are less on hard. This is where I got stuck on hard.
Hope springs eternal.
Wesnoth acronym guide.

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Baufo
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Post by Baufo » June 14th, 2006, 6:16 am

Sly wrote:Wasn't freeing the mermen in the northern cave sufficient ?
That would not make a difference. With that less mermen you get it's impossible to free both, the mermen in the east and the bunch of water creatures in the north before you have beaten the army of the sea lord.
Well, it IS possible to defeat him, but NOT with normal luck :?
That'S acutally what I wanted to point out because it's not fun if you know that you will have to replay the sceanario if you just get a single unlucky turn.
I was working on the proof of one of my poems all the morning, and took out a comma. In the afternoon I put it back again. -- Oscar Wilde

mstefek
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Re: Scenario Review: HttT - Bay of Pearls

Post by mstefek » July 19th, 2006, 2:32 pm

Dave wrote:(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
1) Hard
2) 9
3) Ok
4) Fine, the Bugg is awesome
5)
- Guessing how should I defend against the orks' rush without much gold. That was a good lesson.
- The sea battle. I had to reload few times to survive the initial bats and nagas attack. I don't see anything but luck that can help doing it.
6) 9, It would be 10 if the randomness of the sea battle was removed.
7) If the sea orcs had 30 gold less, it would be much less frustrating, but still challenging.

Quitch
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Re: Scenario Review: HttT - Bay of Pearls

Post by Quitch » August 6th, 2006, 3:45 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Medium, 1.1.8

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
5, mainly because the land based AI plays pretty stupid if you play a certain way.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Crystal.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Well, the Delfador thing was silly and contrived, can't he just do the Gandalf myterious thing, or simply not be there when you turn around?

Loving Bugg :)

Why no dialogue for the trident? I mean, why is it there? What does it signify?

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The scenario is won or lost at sea, and the dialogue doesn't help because it gets you focused on the cage in the NW, but if you go for that then the sea AI will hit your land forces in the flank. Better to hold position on land, while the merman win the sea.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
3, I never really felt I had a lot of choice in playing this. The sea war has only two types of terrain, one is better and both move the same. You free the mermen, then of course because you have no other unit types you can use at sea the game ensures you are given enough to win, so it's a pre-determined victory and all you had to do was open the cages on the first turn and keep the mermen together.

The land battle, likewise, is dull thanks to lack of terrain. You form a hardpoint and try to tempt the AI into hitting your lines.

If you send your mermen against the sea army then half the AI's land army plunges into the sea, and now the land battle becomes a real walkover.

Right now I free the mermen and send them enmasse against the sea army, which I of course defeat (trying to stay in shallow water with a border of deep water where possible), and then I proceed to take the island villages. Depending on my situation I'll head NW and free the mermen before beating the sea orc leader, or I'll defeat him and then go NW.

My land army meanwhile forms up around a village at the half-way point, and waits for the AI to hit my line, or to break up and present easy targets whom I can kill while not breaking formation.

This allows me to get the trident and beat both leaders.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Make a single hex wide path to the central castle. If you keep it sea only then it can only be reached by mermen, and then you have to give me enough to win the sea war because I can't recruit sea units (or if I could, it'd be more mermen), and therefore the sea battle is over before it's begun because you have to give me enough mermen to win because otherwise... well, what can I recruit?

Get rid of a merman cage so that hitting the NW cage before the sea army is a more tempting and logical prospect, where as currently I don't need to.

Give me more of a reason to go NW, like hinting at the trident.

Stop the land AI from heading into the water, which is a complete waste of time, or let it recruit bats.

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Post by Clonkinator » August 18th, 2006, 4:07 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Easy, Normal, Hard at 1.0.1 and Normal at 1.1.7
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
Killing the land orc: 3.
Killing both orcs: 6.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Clear but unlogical. The scenario before Konrad was told to hurry to rescue Elensefar, and here he seemed to have totally forgotten this. (Sorry for my terrible English)
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Well, just meeting ONE objective (killing one orc) was no problem. But meeting the other objective (killing both orcs) is a bit difficult because of these damned nagas. :x
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6. The battle with the land orc is pretty interesting, but the battle against the nagas is *ugh*
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Adding anything to the water which affects the defense. Always having all units either 50% or 60% defense is boring. And also, the nagas are just far stronger than merman, if both of them have the same defense. There could be some shallow-water-spots in the sea for example, or any other terrain which fits together with water, but has other defense stats.
(Sorry again for my terrible English)

Sly
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Post by Sly » August 19th, 2006, 7:48 pm

Clonkinator wrote:Adding anything to the water which affects the defense. Always having all units either 50% or 60% defense is boring. And also, the nagas are just far stronger than merman, if both of them have the same defense. There could be some shallow-water-spots in the sea for example, or any other terrain which fits together with water, but has other defense stats.
(Sorry again for my terrible English)
That's not it : mermen have a 7-3 attack (so they deal from 3 to 21 damage without day/night modifiers) where nagas have a 4-4 attack (dealing form 4 to 16 damage).
The only advantages of nagas are ther supérior speed and their defense at higher level.

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Post by Clonkinator » September 3rd, 2006, 12:07 pm

>mermen have a 7-3 attack (so they deal from 3 to 21 damage without day/night modifiers)

That's it. WITHOUT day/night modifiers. But, however, I can usually only fight them at night in that scenario - I arrive there almost always only at night, because while daytime, I'm only moving towards them...

Sly
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Post by Sly » September 3rd, 2006, 4:28 pm

Clonkinator wrote:>mermen have a 7-3 attack (so they deal from 3 to 21 damage without day/night modifiers)

That's it. WITHOUT day/night modifiers. But, however, I can usually only fight them at night in that scenario - I arrive there almost always only at night, because while daytime, I'm only moving towards them...
Then delay your attack or move faster, fighting at night with loyal units again neutral or chaotic units is a suicide

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Post by Clonkinator » September 8th, 2006, 5:38 pm

Well. I guess you are right.

sawall
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Re: Scenario Review: HttT - Bay of Pearls

Post by sawall » January 17th, 2007, 5:46 am

1) Normal
2) 2
3) Very
4) It seemed slightly contrived, but it was clear.
5) Very few. I am posting my strategy because others seem to have a lot of trouble with this (maybe something's been changed in updates, since it's been a while since anyone posted):
Open all Mermaids except the one in the land bridge, and run them up the left edge to the trapped ones. Create a fairly large ground army, but leave it near to your castle. Don't worry about capturing many villages, just defend a few. As soon as the northwest Mermaids are free, immediately rush them over to the sea leader. They should be able to kill him easily. Then the land leader's troops will get confused (they should be almost to your army) and try to attack your Mermaids at the sea leader's base. At this point, move your land army up and pick off enemy land units at the edges, but don't advance too far. Send your mermaids over to the land leader's base and swarm and kill the land leader. The key to this strategy is to never directly engage either enemy's army, just operate at their edges.
6) 8
7) I had a lot of fun with this one.

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Mist
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Post by Mist » March 12th, 2007, 10:00 pm

1) Medium 1.3.1
2) 4
3) crystal
4) Much better than on the Anduin. Especially liked the choice at the end.
5) Not much challenge really, all of my cavalry leveled by now what made the land battle fairly simple mater of advancing the infantry line and riding over everything that strayed to the side. Sea part was even easier as I managed to kill that orc before i opened NW cage.
6) 8. +1 for sea orc :)
7) Expand the sea orc part a bit :)

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Post by kazper » March 28th, 2007, 9:05 pm

(1) Hard
(2) 4
(3) They were clear
(4) Pretty good. And funny with the water orc ;)
(5) None really. This scenario can be very difficult, but I pretty much trampled over everything with Elvish Outriders and Lancers (Knights at the end)
(6) 7
(7) God I hate regenerating trolls... But that's not really a suggestion ;) The scenario is good.

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