Scenario 4: Bay of Pearls

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Scenario 4: Bay of Pearls

Post by Content Feedback » September 9th, 2004, 2:07 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
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Dacyn
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Post by Dacyn » September 9th, 2004, 10:05 am

1=Easy
2=4
3=very
4=very
5=I don't really understand this question anymore. If you quit because of severe losses, does that count as an obstacle to completing the objectives? (I don't know whether I could have won if I had continued to play.) If it does count, then my obstacle would be being too aggressive on land but not recruiting enough units.
6=7
7=Make the merman have 0 movement when they are freed. This has two advantages; it will eliminate the strangeness of several cages being opened on turn 1, and it will prevent the player from being able to kill Bugg before he transforms into a sea orc. I don't remember what version they were given movement on, but why was that changed?

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Re: Scenario Review: Bay of Pearls

Post by Elvish_Pillager » September 9th, 2004, 10:33 am

(1) Easy, Normal, Hard
(2) 7
(3) Pretty clear
(4) Uh, kind of weird... we're here because 'we must go there', an Orcish Archer turns into a Sea Orc (Archer should be a Grunt, perhaps? In one game, I had a ~40% chance of killing Bugg before he transformed too...), and Delfador shows up and says 'we don't want you here anymore anyway'...
(5) Ridiculous tiny castle and unnecessarially chancy sea battle.
(6) 2
(7) Bigger castle, allow mermen recruits, make more interesting stuff when Bugg dies :wink:
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Re: Scenario Review: Bay of Pearls

Post by turin » September 9th, 2004, 12:34 pm

Dave wrote:(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
easy, medium.
Dave wrote:(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4. Harder than the previous ones, but not too hard IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING. Its probably too hard for beginners (on Easy).
Dave wrote:(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear, but its confusing at first because it looks like you obviously can't get to the guy in water.
Dave wrote:(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Like EP... i didn't really get it. Why the heck are they at the bay of pearls, not getting the scepter or something? I think the scenarios from BoP to SoE are too 'run around saving everyone' and not 'fufill a quest'. (Oh! There are captured mermen, lets save them! Hey! Elensefar is under attack! Lets save them!)
Dave wrote:(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Small castle and chancy sea battle. :)
Dave wrote:(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
4... it would be higher if it made more sense. :?
Dave wrote:(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Better dialogue, bigger castle, maybe somehow make the seabattle more skill-dependent (not sure how).
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Re: Scenario Review: Bay of Pearls

Post by Jaramir » September 9th, 2004, 1:04 pm

(1) Normal
(2) 2
(3) simple and clear
(4) quite interesting
(5) the first time i've played i haven't killed the land lord since a bat evolved lvl 2 and seriously damaged my hi level units, the second time the land lord recruited lvl 2 units and have made me suffer heavy losses
(6) 2
(7) dunno how to make it more fun, but it would be more challenging if it wasn't that easy to kill all the nagas, bats and lords just with merman (i've never arrived to the land lord with a land unit, just merman and storm trident). Maybe, after the sea lord is killed, merman could say "Hey, our enemy is beaten, the bay is now clear.. let's go and have a party while konrad finish the other bad boy..."
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Re: Scenario Review: Bay of Pearls

Post by Integral » September 9th, 2004, 4:43 pm

Dave wrote:(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Only Medium recently.
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7, but this may be skewed:

I haven't played this level for a while, and my recruitment pattern was based on the last time I played it. Since then...OH GOD SO MANY TROLLS AND NAGAS!!!! :shock: I swear that both enemies recruit like 3 times as many units as before! This level has turned into a real meat-grinder: I lost almost all my level 2 units from previous scenarios, along with 50-75% of the new units I recruited on land. I might even have had trouble killing the land leader before turns ran out, had he not moved to a village right near my army on the next-to-next-to-last turn. (or maybe it was next-to-last)

I defeated the Naga army with exactly one merman to spare (who was holding the trident), and he barely survived -- had he not levelled by killing the next-to-last Naga, he might well have died and forced me to slog across the bay to the island (or just fight Muff Malal).
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Not to be a broken record, but I still find the disjunctive objective lists weird.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Clear, interesting.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Keeping units alive. There's basically nowhere to hide, and two trolls at night or in twilight can deal 30-40 damage to an elvishfoot or smallfoot unit if they're even slightly lucky, enough to kill or basically incapacitate just about every level 1 unit you have, and to kill level 2 units if they're even slightly wounded. The Orcish Warriors are as bad or worse. I might have done better had I realized sooner that this was a level designed to kill my units, and just thrown some worthless new recruits to the horde.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
4

In the past I'd actually have rated it lower -- the increased opposition means that the land war is actually interesting, while the only way to win the sea battle is to run right for the Trident (in the past I actually engaged the naga before getting the Trident, which lead to really annoying battles). It doesn't get a higher rating because I was really frustrated to encounter a level like this so early in the game -- I had just a few level 2 units, and they almost all got wiped out.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Add some terrain that can be used to defend against the troll horde at night: forest, or even some hills that the elves can hide in would be a huge relief.

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Post by Na'enthos » September 9th, 2004, 6:32 pm

(1) Medium
(2) 5.. not too hard, but much harder than the earlier scenarios
(3) Crystal clear
(4) Nice.. in my opinion they had to go to the bay to help the mermen and to get away from the Imperial forces.. 's been a while since I've played it.
(5) Finishing the objectives it within the turn-limit, learning to use the mermen effectively.
(6) More fun than Blackwater, the Mermen are cool looking units. 6.
(7) Hmm. Not much. If well-used the mermen can take care of the naga (or maybe I was just fortunate) and the rest of the units can go for the other castle.

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Re: Scenario Review: Bay of Pearls

Post by Burnsaber » September 9th, 2004, 6:41 pm

Dave wrote:(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
1. Medium
2. 6(for killing land leader),8 (for killing both)
3. very clear
4. pretty intresting; i cursed when deflador went away(that damn old man flees whenever you need him the most :evil: )
5. Holding the line against troll hordes(thank god that i had 2 shamans leveled up)
6. 6
7. When the new mermen and naga are done, add them immidiately, seafights are very boring and lack the basic tactics(everybody has 30% of hitting = boring! :( )
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Re: Scenario Review: Bay of Pearls

Post by Bandobras » September 9th, 2004, 7:04 pm

Elvish Pillager wrote:make more interesting stuff when Bugg dies :wink:
Perhaps something like "Oh he had on him the map to the hidden native mermen settlements nearby. They were planning an assault on them, apparently. Great, we spoiled their plans, and moreover now we can recruit mermen!". But change the text to make some sense, actually. ;) And if he is not killed you cannot recruit mermen, ever, only recall.

pjr

Re: Scenario Review: Bay of Pearls

Post by pjr » September 9th, 2004, 11:46 pm

Dave wrote:(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Easy and Normal.
Dave wrote:(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
3 on Easy, 7 on Medium
Dave wrote:(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
If I'm right in thinking that the options at the end are different if only one leader is killed, I'd like it to be made clear in the objectives.
Dave wrote:(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Very clear. I don't think the scenario plot needs to be more closely integrated into the campaign plot. Konrad flees, then he fights back in a few places where he can help, and then the main quest begins. Nothing wrong with that.

Bugg's dialog becomes a little boring after playing the scenario a few times, but that's true of all dialog. It was fun the first time, and I still make a special effort to kill him so I can gloat.
Dave wrote:(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
On Easy, there aren't really any challenges at all. The mermen stomp all over the sea orcs, and then contribute to the rout of the land orcs. On Medium, a lot of care is required to hold the land orcs off in the night without losing valuable units, and although killing the sea orc with the storm trident isn't difficult, there are so many bats and nagas that it's almost impossible to prevent them capturing villages and causing a gold shortage.
Dave wrote:(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8. This is one of my favourites.
Dave wrote:(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I'd add some dialog explaining what the storm trident is. The first couple of times I played I didn't notice it was there.

Also, it doesn't quite make sense that mermen are recruitable later if they all die. I use them as suicide troops, and I don't think that's really in the spirit of the game.

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Re: Scenario Review: Bay of Pearls

Post by Dacyn » September 10th, 2004, 1:24 am

pjr wrote:If I'm right in thinking that the options at the end are different if only one leader is killed, I'd like it to be made clear in the objectives.
hm.. an idea for a new dialog at the beginning:
Konrad: 'So this is the Bay of Pearls. We can just free the mermen and then leave; right, Delfador?'
Delfador: 'I am afraid it is not that simple. After we free the mermen we must head to Elensefar. There are rumors that Ashievere will attack it, breaking the century-old treaty between Wesnoth and the Elense city-state. If the city falls, there is no telling how many other lands she may swallow up!'
Konrad: 'But how will we get there? These Orcs are blocking our path!'
Delfador: 'We must defeat them. We could defeat the Orcs on the land, and walk, or we could defeat the Orcs of the sea and go that way.'
Delfador: 'But the path to Elensefar will surely be dangerous. I have heard that the greater danger lies in the sea route, but also that great help lies there. You must choose which path to follow, and defeat the Orcs which block that path.'
Konrad: 'Alright! But I might decide to defeat all the Orcs, so we can have a little rest from this fighting.'
Delfador: 'It looks like the Orcs have many, many, troops. I will go around the bay and distract some of them for a while. You must win this battle before they come back!'
The end dialog would have to be modified to fit with this...

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Post by Bandobras » September 11th, 2004, 5:20 pm

Nice dialog.
I have heard that the greater danger lies in the sea route, but also that great help lies there.
This one is a little unlikely. Perhaps something like (pardon my poor English):
My heart tells me that the greater danger lies in the sea route, but also an unforseen help waits there.
or better:
I have heard that the sea route is especially perilious, but my heart tells me that an unforseen help waits there.

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Post by Circon » September 12th, 2004, 1:51 pm

Your poor English is pardoned. The suggestions are quite good. The only "poor english" I saw was misspelling "perilous".

How about "but my heart tells me that an unforeseen source of help waits there." or "...my heart reminds me that when aid is most wanted, it tends to appear."

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Post by scott » September 12th, 2004, 7:43 pm

I'm not down with the idea of hinting that the sea route holds a source of danger or help. You're not intending to travel to the isle of the damned; thus you have no reason to expect the sea route to hold any help sourced from the isle of the damned any more you would expect to take the sea route and get help sourced at the isle of anduin. Hinting that it might be dangerous would be ok, but you should also say that the land route exposes you to additional encounters along the path to Elensefar. You could even go so far as Delfador saying he doesn't trust the sea route OR he belives the land route would be safer despite the known risk of encounters to help the player know the land route is easier.

Honestly, as long as the 2 scenarios hold comparable payoffs the player should be equally happy. There is a good argument that the peninsula, with its great army-building opportunities, is a good match for a free white mage and outlaws (but a harder battle).

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Post by Baltar » September 17th, 2004, 3:30 am

1) Medium
2) 8
3) Crystal
4) very clear, sea orc dialogue an amusing touch as well.
5) The damn Nagas
6) 4
7) Something needs to be done to make the sea battle easier on the player. I've played this scenario repeatedly and simply cannot win at sea. I was able to defeat the land AI quite handily. The ability to produce Merfolk would be one improvement. Also add a few extra merfolk in the more accessible cages. The Sea AI's initial force simply overwhelms the current alotment.
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