Scenario 2: Blackwater Port

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Dacyn
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Post by Dacyn » October 5th, 2004, 12:54 am

On the horseman-advice dialog: I think it would be more interesting if it were presented as something other than tactical advice: for example:
Orcish Grunt: 'Those horsemen will be my doom! I have heard that they are most powerful on the open plain, in broad daylight. I must hide in the forest until night to avoid their powerful charge!'
Mokolo Qimur: 'Yes, like the coward that you are. Although the Horsemen deal double damage to units they attack, they recieve double damage in return. Your blade will prove deadly to them, as our opponent's young commander will surely be too inexperienced to contemplate attacking our archers instead.'

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Zhukov
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Post by Zhukov » November 11th, 2005, 4:36 am

1) Difficulty level
Medium only (so far)

2) Difficulty to complete
4/10 - I was still learning. Hadn't got my head around the idea that, "Yes, the wizard is a powerful old bugger, but sending him up against 4 grunts and a troll in the hills at night may not be such a great idea." It would be about a 2 now.

3) Objective clarity
Totally clear.

4) Dialog
Like it should be. It was to the point and told you what you needed to know. Can't see eye-to-eye with everyone else about the horseman advice, seemed clear enough to me: use him in daylight, on the plains and, if possible, against isolated units. That said, until i got the hang of it, poor Horseman Haladiel (wasn't that his name, the loyal one?) died an awful lot.

5) Challenges
None really, just learning the ropes. Not being overzealous with my horseman. (I didnt recruit any, just kept the bonus one).

6) Fun
6/10 - Not bad. But, I just HAVE to say it, the ship looked...well...lets just say I wasn't sure if I was supposed to laugh or cry. Might seem trivial but it was a massive anticlimax.

7) Changes
It seems that the actions of your ally, that Kaylan fellow, depend on which villages you take. If I get most of them his horsemen attack one by one, and get positively mauled. However if I leave some villages for him his horsemen arrive in two's or three's. Perhaps his horsemen could mass before attacking? As it was, they did nothing but provide XP to the enemy.

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Eleazar
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Re: Scenario Review: Blackwater Port

Post by Eleazar » November 11th, 2005, 9:13 pm

Dave wrote:(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Easy
Dave wrote:(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
As the easiest scenario in HttT it deserves a 1. I don't know if they just were lucky, but my allies accutally put a big dent in the orcs last time i played. In the past they haven't been worth much.
Dave wrote:(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
no problems. Though it's not obvious if the "reinforcements" the knight mentions are supposed to be the ship or not.
Dave wrote:(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I think the Knight's explanation on how to use horses is a bit too didactic, but i think that info needs to be there in some form.
Dave wrote:(5) What were your major challenges in completing the scenario?
Keeping my "allies" from taking all the XP.
Dave wrote:(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8 This is quite fun, especially after fleeing for my life. Unlike most levels, i didn't find it frustrating even as a first time player.
Dave wrote:(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Well, this is the level were we get horsemen. But they seem less useful in competing this level than my normal elves. I've seldom walked away from this level with more than 1 surviving.
Also the way the ship "wiggles" up and down on it's long horizonal course looks kinda odd.
Feel free to PM me if you start a new terrain oriented thread. It's easy for me to miss them among all the other art threads.
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Aloo
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Scenario Review: Blackwater Port

Post by Aloo » November 15th, 2005, 11:48 am

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

Easy, Medium

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

3

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Clear

(5) What were your major challenges in completing the scenario?

Not loosing units at night

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

5

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Better description in the dialog of the new units strenght and weaknes

scott
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Post by scott » November 17th, 2005, 3:10 pm

Scenario update (for v1.1):

In the end, there was very little to change in this scenario.

The dialogue and usage tips players have been suggesting already exist on the easy level. It's pretty explicit about using horsemen during the day and on the plains. It is sufficient but not comprehensive, but I do not plan on changing it for these reasons: 1. I do not want to put an entire strategy guide into the dialogue. I could add info about resistances and defense, etc. but I don't want to put the strategy guide writers out of business. 2. If it's sufficient, then I want to leave it to avoid making unnecessary work for the translators.

The side 2 grouping behavior is already tweaked, so I don't know what more I would do. Note that you can do absolutely nothing on this scenario and still win on normal difficulty, so I'm not convinced it's a problem.

I fixed the motion of the ship. Halidel speaks to you now, and the reason for this is so you realize that he is a loyal unit.

Thank you for resurrecting this topic. The scenario changes won't be available for a while unless you compile SVN and play that. Scenario reviews continue to be welcome.
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bruno
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Post by bruno » December 25th, 2005, 8:19 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Medium and Hard

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
On Hard its about a 2. It's been a while since I played on medium, but I think it is probably a 4 or so.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
They were clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

So so.

(5) What were your major challenges in completing the scenario?
On hard trying to figure out how few units I needed to recruit.
On medium trying to fight tactically to preserve units,

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
On medium it was fun, on hard it was like a run away scenario.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
On hard there needs to be more turns. It is pretty difficult to lose in only 9 turns. Since the player wins at the time limit, lowering it doesn't make the scenario easier.
On medium there seemed to be a choice of trying to fight to win and collect the early finish bonus, and trying to just fight a delaying action to save on your initial gold outlay. On hard its a no brainer to not fight,
It seems it would be nice if the map was more friendly to horsemen. There is enough woods on this map, that it looks like elves would be better and there isn't much reason to recruit horsemen,

Shakiko
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Post by Shakiko » March 14th, 2006, 10:57 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

easy (but a long time ago), medium, hard (most recently)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

Compared to others in this campaign: 2


(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

very clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

quite clear and it added some twist to be able to recruit new stuff.
The explanation how to use horsemen sounded abit odd though...


(5) What were your major challenges in completing the scenario?

uhm... none on hard...
on medium: Ally not killing all orcs first XD

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7 - Fun in general
5 - regarding campaign only


(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

none, its just an "experienced tutorial scenario" and it already fits this really good

FCDallas96
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Post by FCDallas96 » April 18th, 2006, 6:14 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

Medium

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

2, as stated above, you can do nothing and still win.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

very clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Very clear and interesting

(5) What were your major challenges in completing the scenario?

Using the terrain to my advantage (forest vs hills)

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

8

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

No changes.

Mille
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Post by Mille » May 25th, 2006, 9:48 am

1) Difficulty level
Easy, Medium

2) Difficulty to complete - 3

3) Objective clarity
Totally clear.

4) DialogI like it

5) Challenges
Not really challanging. But a scenario needed for beginners to learn the standrd rules

6) i liked it.

7) Changes: No suggestions - The level is balanced and something practicable for beginners.

Quitch
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Re: Scenario Review: Blackwater Port

Post by Quitch » August 6th, 2006, 3:09 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Medium, 1.1.8

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
1, easiest scenario in the campaign.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Perfectly clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Advanced the story nicely and introduced the idea of rebel elements among the humans. Hoping to see more of them later...

(5) What were your major challenges in completing the scenario?
The most tempting approach to the orcs ends with you facing them in hilly terrain.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7, you get a new unit to play with who has an interesting ability, they're powerful but also vunerable.

You have an ally who adds variance to how the scenario plays out, without fustrating you in the XP game because the terrain is more bottlenecked.

It's replayable, because how you approach the orcs can change how the battle plays out thanks to the terrain layout. It never quite feels the same battle.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Well, the only problem is that this is hardly ideal horsemen territory. You're learning to use them against orcish grunts hiding in the hills and woods, rather than on the plains. I found myself relying on elves more than horsemen.

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Mist
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Post by Mist » March 12th, 2007, 9:33 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Medium, 1.3.1

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
1 again it's very hard not to achive the objectives

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Perfectly clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Plausible, and coherent. But after three "massive" orcish armies in previous scenario yould expect a little more of them here. And coming from the east, not west.

(5) What were your major challenges in completing the scenario?
There is no challenge in defending the town, orcs come in small number and the fight is in the open terrain so it leaves them to be steamrolled by cavalry.
Only difficulty in defeating the enemy is keeping the loses at minimum (or zero) as the terrain and day cycle is rather in orcish favor.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6 - Nice to have a choiceand a possibility of some positional combat, even better to finaly see the whole port garrison march out to fight in good order.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Spawn more orc, or make them stronger but focus the AI on the port. This would force you to commit to the defences leaving a possibility of flank strike.

kazper
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Post by kazper » March 28th, 2007, 8:54 pm

(1) Hard
(2) 2
(3) Slightly confusing how important going for the Orc leader was.
(4) It was good
(5) None really. This was an easier scenario than the first by far.
(6) 4
(7) None really. Good scenario.

cph
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Post by cph » May 12th, 2007, 5:33 pm

1) Easy, medium; 1.2.4
2) I played to kill the orc boss, so I don't know how hard it would have been to sit it out - not that hard I guess. At medium, coming in with 170 gold, I just failed to kill the boss on turn 12. With a bit more gold it becomes comfortable - say 4 to kill the boss.
3) Clear, although I rather assumed that going for the kill was the right course of action.
4) Clear but wordy.
5) The ally is at times a handicap - rushes his horsemen unsupported into the costal plain, where they are cut to pieces in the first night. On my 1st attempt at medium, the orcs managed to level a unit due to his ineptitude, which made things harder. Either send a unit to steal the ally's villages and cut off his supply of money, or play so aggressively that you stay between his units and the orcs. Only the fact that the orc commander is even more dumb - frequently sending powerful units out to swim - allows Sir K's knight to survive and usefully kill stuff.
6) 5
7) I think punching a 1 tile hole in the line of woods and hills in the west - just below the hills, say - would make this map much more attractive for horsemen. Then you could hold your horsemen there and deploy them to either flank; without this, elves are more mobile in the main combat area, so you don't want to have many horsemen - which is what then makes their long introduction at the start seem OTT.

Maybe more of a bonus for killing the orc leader? Going to the effort of taking him on appears to have little reward.

Tomyellow
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Post by Tomyellow » May 23rd, 2007, 1:58 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Medium 1.2.4
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4 I played the later scenarios at 0.8.x times, so I can't measure this difficulty relative to the later parts of the campaign, but I could kill the leather only in the 11th turn. I lost a markman and gain another, in addition another archer needs 4 XP to advance.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
It is the main reason of my post. Please write what kind of bonus I get if I kill the leader in the introduction. I think early finish bonus is can't be named as bonus, it is the least when I finish the scenario earlier, and I didn't realize any other bonus. Are there any other?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
It was good. I have no problem with tips in the dialogue.
(5) What were your major challenges in completing the scenario?
Keep the horseman alive :) Guess the balance between stay passive at night and kill the leader before time goes.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6 I like the short small army scenarios at weekday evenings :)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
The introduction as I mentioned. The scenario is good I think.

Cheers,
Tomyellow

052Hagen
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Post by 052Hagen » February 3rd, 2008, 2:59 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

Normal v1.3.14

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

2

It's essentially impossible to lose this scenario. You can spike up the difficulty a bit if you refuse to take over the villages of your ally (hey, I like watching the AI putting up a decent fight with our enemy ;-) ) and attack the Orc youself instead of sitting in your base. I didn't manage to bring down the enemy general though or even came close to.
This would have honestly made a better entry scenario then the first one.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Wait 2 days before your ship lands and brings you away to the mage island. Perfectly clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

The short dialoge was quite nice (I like it talky, talky), but ultimately forgettable. I like this sort of scenario though, where you have to stand x days before reenforcement arrives/an escape route opens up.

(5) What were your major challenges in completing the scenario?

Nothing, really.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

7-8

It's simple and easy, but at the same time fun to play and gives you a host of possibilities to apply your own strategy for this scenario (help your ally out, kill the Orc general, earn as much EP as possible, minimalize loses ...). I also like it that there isn't really any pressure on you (be it a time limit or pursuing forces).

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

*Make it longer - you could add another day or so to give the Orcs an opportunity to spread out their forces more.
*Get the allied AI more involved with the action on the battlefield - because sending out a single knight every few rounds is a pretty lazy effort for saving your hometown.

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