Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

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PeacefulMind
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Re: Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

Post by PeacefulMind » August 1st, 2011, 6:27 am

(1) Hard

(2) Depends, see below (3 on average)

(3) Extremely clear.

(4) Objectives could have been better, but the idea (large battle that you don't control much of and have to flee from) is interesting.

(5) Bad luck. See, the way this scenario is set up, how hard it is entirely depends on the effectiveness of your allies. On my first run through, my northern ally put up a very good fight despite being totally outgunned, while my western ally actually began pushing back the green orcs. When my little "retreat brigade" arrived, my small assistance force resulted in the western ally swarming east. My northern ally was killed in the process, but Purple was fairly weak and several northern elves were still fighting back. The southern orcs were utterly irrelevant besides killing a handful of random allied elves who were holding the perimeter, and could have probably been beaten by my army alone. I actually offhandedly killed the Green orc leader since he had no soldiers left when I passed by, and the resulting experience bonus made the next couple missions much easier. Had I not been scared of the time limit and looking for that gold bonus, I would have killed Purple and then blue with relative ease.

On the other hand, it is possible that your allies will do terribly and get crushed, in which case escape is a huge pain. I think that is why some people find it so hard; they get unlucky, their allies are overran, and they get swarmed and wiped out.

(6) 7

(7) Make those southern orcs a little closer. Lower the time limit and add a bonus for killing orc leaders. In a perfect world, helping the elves here would result in one or both of them arriving to assist you in a later scenario.

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vodot
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Re: Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

Post by vodot » October 12th, 2011, 6:16 pm

(1) Challenging. v1.8.6. My first Wesnoth campaign ever. (I am a strategy vet and nothing makes me happier than an AI that can beat me).
(2) 6 - Fairly Difficult. I restarted 3-4 times. I tried first splitting units with a delaying action to the south while my main force drove a wedge up the path north (where thar be L3 trolls. Ow.) Then I stubbornly tried a full wedge north. Ow. Finally I just hauled it west and used my army as a meatshield. still Ow, but successful Ow.
(3) 10 - Completely Transparent. I knew what I needed to do, but see (5)
(4) 5 - Clear, but dry. The writing could use some refreshing.
(5) I did not realize at first that what I needed was to immediately take all the units I could muster with a single recruiting wave and then Haul Ass to the signpost. I was distracted by the feeling that I should be building up an experienced force with which to smite the challenging AI later, making me too cautious. In the end, only two of my non-critical units survived (one of them has survived so far into Scenario 5! woot!).
(6) 2 - No fun at all. Hauling Ass and watching your units and your allies getting butchered by level 2 & 3 Trolls was a bummer. I thought to myself "if the whole game is like this..." of course, it is not.
(7) Meh. More fun... not sure. I asked for "challenging" and I got it from this scenario. It was good.

cyningstan
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Re: Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

Post by cyningstan » November 19th, 2011, 4:22 am

(1) What difficulty level and Wesnoth version...?
Medium, 1.8.6.
(2) How difficult...?
2/10. Very little challenge; barely managed to level anything up.
(3) How clear...objectives?
Very clear.
(4) How clear and interesting...scenario?
Very clear and sets the scene nicely.
(5) ...major challenges...?
Since the elven allies were taking care of the orcs very nicely, I have a difficult time finding any opportunity to give my units valuable experience. I managed to level up one unit during the scenario; I was hoping for more. Edit: I've started the campaign again due to getting stuck at a later level, for lack of experienced units. This time I tried specifically for experience, keeping Konrad from reaching the sign a couple of turns to give me time to gain it. I didn't manage to level anyone up! But I lost a unit in trying.
(6) How fun...?
6/10. I enjoyed it, but nothing special. Good enough for an introduction on a novice campaign.
(7) What...changes?
Have the allies leave me something to kill!
[1] preferably, this should be rated relative to other scenarios in the campaign.
I've got as far as a failed attempt on the second scenario: if I wait any longer before leaving feedback for this one I'd have forgotten what the issues were!
Damian Walker - fell in battle at Elensefar...

Radh
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Re: Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

Post by Radh » December 24th, 2011, 5:09 pm

(1) Easy, Medium
(2) I think a 2. I didn't play Hard, but the objectives given allowed me to get away with none of my party killed.
(3) The first time I played, I didn't know where I was supposed to go, but that's probably just me. Most beginners will get it.
(4) The scenario was very clear and interesting, I don't doubt that at all.
(5) The elves were so much faster than Delfador and Konrad, it almost got annoying. That was my only challenge, which clearly isn't that big.
(6) 6. There was no fighting; I just watched the elves do the fighting, and since I really wasn't involved with the fighting, I found myself excited, but disappointed that my objective wasn't to save the elves; which I could have done.
(7) I would add a Bonus objective to save the elves and defeat all three of the kings. It would make the 30 turns useful and allow you even use your units.

Jabie
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Re: Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

Post by Jabie » March 13th, 2012, 9:17 pm

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Link it to the Tutorial. Allow players to move straight from the tutorial to this scenario and allow Konrad to keep any XP. It's not like the few XP Konrad picked up in the Tutorial is going to break this campaign, but it would be nice to link it up.

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FaeLord
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Re: Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

Post by FaeLord » March 24th, 2012, 11:17 pm

(1) What difficulty level and Wesnoth version have you played the scenario on?
Unknown
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
1
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
honestly... run to the signpost.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
HttT gets boring real fast. I have never completed the campaign for that reason. It seems like this campaign is the answer to someone asking the question: Could I design a campaign that uses every single mainline unit ever created? The answer to that question apparently is, yes you can, but you can't make it interesting.
(5) What were your major challenges in completing the scenario?
None
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
2
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I'm probably not the best judge of that....
Wesnoth stole my summer . . . again.

Laurent
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Re: Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

Post by Laurent » April 25th, 2012, 5:02 pm

(1) What difficulty level and Wesnoth version have you played the scenario on?

The hardest one

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

7

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

run to the signpost, stay alive --> very clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

quite nice i liked the moment konrad said : "our hometown is being destroyed". It also introduces nicely the campaign

(5) What were your major challenges in completing the scenario?

In hard mode, there are a lot of strong units. The elves get riped quite easily and sometimes some ennemy units can block your way to the signposts if you are unlucky. That's why i give a 7.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

7

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?


- Less ennemy units. You should also maybe reduce the size of the map in the south. There is nothing important in the south but the AI keep sending some units there.

- "Link it to the Tutorial. Allow players to move straight from the tutorial to this scenario and allow Konrad to keep any XP. It's not like the few XP Konrad picked up in the Tutorial is going to break this campaign, but it would be nice to link it up.

Jabie" --> agreed

- If the player save an ally leader, this last one should help Konrad in a next scenario

Svistwarrior273
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Re: Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

Post by Svistwarrior273 » August 18th, 2012, 6:19 pm

(1) What difficulty level and Wesnoth version have you played the scenario on?
Easy, 1.10.3
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) [1]
3-4
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Crystal clear.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Excellent.
(5) What were your major challenges in completing the scenario?
On low diffiulty nothing.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7-8.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Nothing, i think that this scenario is really good and fun.

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Flameslash
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Re: Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

Post by Flameslash » September 28th, 2012, 7:09 pm

(1) What difficulty level and Wesnoth version have you played the scenario on?

Normal, 1.11

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

2, the only challenge was getting experience.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Crystal

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

It wasn't that good, IMHO.

(5) What were your major challenges in completing the scenario?

Getting experience.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

4, it's not difficult and just dull, really.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

More dialog, especially for Garard dying.

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Seldam
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Re: Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

Post by Seldam » December 27th, 2012, 3:04 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
medium, 1.10.5;

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
3

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialogue and storyline of the scenario?
The intro was very interesting. I liked the start.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Nothing special.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
I think it was a bit ... lame: 3

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Maybe a hunting or some other objective.
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Linthar
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Re: Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

Post by Linthar » August 12th, 2013, 3:10 am

(1) What difficulty level and Wesnoth version have you played the scenario on?
Medium 1.10.5
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) [1]
1
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Quite Clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
The storyline of the scenario was quite compelling. Actually watching the battle and seeing you allies slowly fall conveys the sense of a doomed battle far better then any dialog or text description ever could, and starting the storyline this way gives the campaign gives the early portion of the campaign a real sense of progression, going from being hopeless outmatched, to eventually being powerful enough to conquer increasing dangerous foes.
(5) What were your major challenges in completing the scenario?
There were no real challenges to actually completing the scenario. My elven allies forces intercepted pretty much every orcish unit that could have possibly posed a threat to me, and the only real difficulty was trying to actually get experience from killing enemy units since said allies proved remarkably adept at kill stealing.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
3 The battles between the orcs and elves may have been effective from a story perspective, but they were not fun to watch, especially since a large part of the fighting was against the forces of the purple and blue orcs whose forces had no chances of reaching myunits making it entirely pointless. Additionally the battle with the green orcs units was too easy to be much fun due to my allies, and the fact that said allies kept kill stealing just made things annoying.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I would have the elven allies focus on holding off purples and blues forces instead of going after green(This may require moving blue's keep a little closer to make going after his units make sense) and to keep things balanced drop the green orc's units down to level 1's. The AI vs AI battles contribute too much to the story to take out for not being particularly fun gameplay wise so these changes keep that aspect, while making it possible for the player to have a fun battle of their own, instead of wanting to scream after the 3rd time a unit whose health they've carefully whittled down is killed by their ally.

SBak
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Re: Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

Post by SBak » September 30th, 2013, 12:45 pm

(1) What difficulty level and Wesnoth version have you played the scenario on?
Easiest and medium 1.8.5, 1.10.2 and 1.10.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

Relative to the other scenarios about a 4 if you're going for the scenario objectives, but higher if you've got other objectives.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Extremely.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
An interesting take on the Three Little Piggies I guess.

(5) What were your major challenges in completing the scenario?
Numerous.. but it usually works out on getting Konrad levelled up and getting XP for my Fighters and Shamen. The challenge is how to do this among your enemies and allies. The NE Orc does the typical Orc thing, strength in numbers with overkill if necessary, the southern Orc and enemy really means business, and the Northern Orc tends to put all his eggs in one basket. Galdrad's Elves are feisty and Chantal's Elves well... they're just plain crazy.

I've tried this so many ways with varying results from defeat (losing either Konrad or Delfador) to coming out of the scenario with a levelled Konrad and a Ranger, Hero, Druid and Sorceress plus an Archer about to level up. This is so luck dependent it's like a lottery, but you can make your own luck. I've given up largely trying to level up Archers because (a) the other Elves tend to hog the kills for themselves and (b) Grunts, Warriors and Trolls tend not to move anywhere which leaves them open or vulnerable, and it's often left to the Wolf Riders, Orcish Crossbowmen and Assassins to take up the more offensive positions.

Konrad starts this campaign as the most fragile unit on the map. He can survive an attack by a Wolf Rider but it will put him out of action, as will an Assassin and in theory he can survive an attack by an Orcish Grunt. But quite often an Orcish Grunt is part of a combined attack and is usually the one to wipe out his HP or finish him off. Orcs fight unfairly, they fight in numbers and if given the opportunity they also fight dirty.

It's also not that easy to work with Delfador here. Delfador is the one unit, apart from of course the Troll Warrior, which can take out an enemy unit with just one attack. He moves the slowest in the forest and while his level 5 lightning attack looks impressive it can misfire so you can't just stick him anywhere.

I've tried to head west then north over the river but with varying results. What I normally do is head north to the fork in the road and see what happens. Invariably you get a Wolf Rider, Orcish Warrior coming down from the north east in front of the other units and the northern units coming south east. With Orcs I find 'bait and switch' tactics work and so too does being passive aggressive. One of the best ways of losing this scenario is keeping Delfador and Konrad together, so I let Delfador (who doesn't really need XP himself) support Galdrad's forces and team Konrad up with my Fighters and Shamen.

Orcs love Shamen, and when you put a Shaman in their range they won't resist attacking. A Shaman in a forest can resist most attacks, even from level2 units such as Orcish Crossbowmen and Assassins and even if poisoned she's usually good for another turn or two before she needs to head for a village. However tougher than a Shaman in a forest, and most other level 1 units, is the Elvish Fighter. Usually along the eastern edge of the western half of the forest is good for getting XP. Konrad only needs 2-3 kills to level up and he's good at finishing off Assassins and Crossbowmen.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

A lot depends on Chantal's Elves and the northern Orc leader. If he's sent a second keep south west to contain them in the west of the forest this is quite an engaging and fun scenario.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I would throw in a few more turns and give an early finish bonus for killing one enemy leader.

Kente
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Re: Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

Post by Kente » October 1st, 2013, 5:17 am

(1) What difficulty level and Wesnoth version have you played the scenario on?
Wesnoth 1.10 and i played both normal and difficoult level

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) [1]
5

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
very clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Very clear, the background of the story it's easy to understand and the story itself it's nice

(5) What were your major challenges in completing the scenario?
For a beginner, in normal level, you have to fight a quite number of orcs before you reach the signpost and it's hard not let die delfador or conrad. When i played this scenario again on difficoult, the biggest problem where the occasionaly level 2 troll reaching you

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
5

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
This scenario is good enough, i mean it's the first of a very long campaign, so it's a good start

ChargeofAddryn
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Re: Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

Post by ChargeofAddryn » November 28th, 2013, 6:17 am

So, as a long time Wesnoth player, enjoying this game for almost a decade, I have decided to replay this campaign due to changes in the game as of recent. I replay it every time a new version of the game comes out, but this time I want to review it here on the forums and give feedback on it. Just to add my two cents and maybe improve some things, while giving due credit the great parts of this game. So without further bothering with my reasons I shall continue.

(1) What difficulty level and Wesnoth version have you played the scenario on?

Almost all of them to my memory, but this time around I played on the latest version 1.11.7 and I am playing on medium difficulty. I find this the most enjoyable of levels for simply sitting back and relaxing while playing the game.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) [1]'

Such a difficult question for me. As I said before I am not a newcomer to the game, I take breaks every once in a while that last maybe 3 months and then I have to polish up my skills again ,but I have become a not to shabby player. So when I look at scenarios like this one I often simply think "what units can I level up here?" I surprisingly lost a unit in this scenario, a fighter who got killed by a lucky Orcish crossbowman and some brash actions (my main fault is taking risks...it why I like horsemen and can't wait for the next scenario :D ) by me. Delfador also got beat up pretty bad but that was a calculated risk and went as planned, so I can't say to much of it. Overall I would label this a 5. It wasn't overly easy (like killing a mudcrawler with a mage) but it definitely wasn't really hard. I just sat back and enjoyed it, got a couple leveled units, though I did not get the druid I wanted. Overall it matched the difficulty setting of the campaign well.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Very clear, outlined well and I knew exactly what to do. Then again, I have played it many times, but its pretty simple. Get your leader out alive and watch the elves do dumb stuff and lose. Nothing to hard to figure out.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Clear and interesting, plain and simple. It made sense that Konrad felt remorse for his home being destroyed (and the animations for destroying the villages was good) though I think Galdrad needs a line for his death. It just doesn't make sense that an Elvish Champion would make a last "you shall not pass" stand and simply not have a little dialogue put in for his death.

(5) What were your major challenges in completing the scenario?

None really, I did have a couple of my own secondary objectives that I was unable to complete, like leveling that shaman, and due to bad luck not getting Konrad leveled. Otherwise there weren't a lot of big challenges.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

A 7 (with 5 as average remember) on this one. I enjoyed myself as always and there were a lot of things in it which added to the experience which I will talk about in a bit.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Not any really. The elves behaved right, Galdrad throwing himself in suicide to stop the rampaging Orcs and Chantal being more careful so as to not die easily, I don't know if this is actual programming or not but it worked out right for me. If there were absolutely anything I would want changed it would be Galdrads dialogue again, he needs a death line but that is it.

A couple extra comments now,

One thing I would like to say is that the art is wonderful. I like Delfadors portrait the best, with Chantals coming in second, then Konrad's, and then Galdrad's. Konrad's felt slightly strange to me, not in art wise (cuz its just well done) but in character terms with the story. I would expect a slightly younger person or perhaps a different sprite (as the current sprite went with the old art), but this still works excellent and the art is again wonderful.

Another thing which added a lot to this scenario was the map. It may be perhaps a strange thing to comment on a map, but I think its well done. The little patch of hills and grass in the forest breaks up the terrain slightly, but its all to clear you are fighting in the elves domain and that they dominate here, and yet the orcs in numbers and level power push on through like a tank. It does its job well.

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Paulomat4
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Re: Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

Post by Paulomat4 » December 20th, 2013, 5:18 pm

The fighter unit seems to have a wrong image path, or one defense frame must be missing, because there's one image not found frame in the defense animation. I looked at the code, but couldn't find the error. Perhaps one of the devs could look into it.
EDIT: I'm on 1.11.7
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