Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

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p013121
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Re: Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

Post by p013121 » November 26th, 2010, 4:23 am

I Just Recruited Archers Who Are Unbeatible In The Forest As Only A Few Enemy Units Have Ranged Attacks. Also Use Delfador To Wound (Probably Kill) Enemy Units For Konrad To Kill

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Reepurr
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Re: Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

Post by Reepurr » November 28th, 2010, 1:13 pm

p013121 wrote:I Just Recruited Archers Who Are Unbeatible In The Forest As Only A Few Enemy Units Have Ranged Attacks.
Not unbeatable. Goblin Pillagers, Orcish Crossbowmen and the such all have ranged attacks. Not just that, but units with bad melee attacks are weak to units with good melee attacks, like Trolls. Also, in the later scenarios, such as
Spoiler:
then you'll wish you hadn't just levelled archers, who can't deal with skeletons at all.
And IMO a few shamans are useful any day of the week. :D
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sacred_chao
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Re: Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

Post by sacred_chao » December 17th, 2010, 10:51 pm

Given later twists and turns of this campaign, might it make more sense to have the introduction written as Delfador talking to Konrad rather than the omniscient narrator?

P.S. It'd be nice to mourn for Galdred a bit if he dies...
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XDms
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Re: Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

Post by XDms » December 21st, 2010, 6:55 pm

(1) What difficulty level and Wesnoth version have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) [1]
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in completing the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?


(1) Hard, Wesnoth 1.8.4
(2) 1 if just flee and with the correct strategy, 8 to level units / kill the northern leader orc
(3) Cristalline
(4) Fine
(5) As i said, killing the northern leader orc or levelling up units
(6) 8, i very enjoyed the battle
(7) Nothing to report, maybe you should add a dialog for the elvish hero if he dies

p013121
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Re: Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

Post by p013121 » December 30th, 2010, 1:55 am

Reepurr wrote:
p013121 wrote:I Just Recruited Archers Who Are Unbeatible In The Forest As Only A Few Enemy Units Have Ranged Attacks.
Not unbeatable. Goblin Pillagers, Orcish Crossbowmen and the such all have ranged attacks. Not just that, but units with bad melee attacks are weak to units with good melee attacks, like Trolls. Also, in the later scenarios, such as
Spoiler:
then you'll wish you hadn't just levelled archers, who can't deal with skeletons at all.
And IMO a few shamans are useful any day of the week. :D
I Have Used This Stratergy For The First Senario And won Many Times And You Have Mages For Muff Malal's Penisular And When You Get Them Latter You Have Dwarvish Fighters Whose Impact Atacks Are Really Powerful AND In Muff Malal's Peninsular I Had A Paladin So I Owned Anyway

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atomicbomb
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Re: Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

Post by atomicbomb » January 16th, 2011, 11:56 am

(1) What difficulty level and Wesnoth version have you played the scenario on?
1.8.5 Hard
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) [1]
1 (only run to oustpost)
5 (levelling some units)
10 (levellling konrad to lv3)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very Clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Nice
(5) What were your major challenges in completing the scenario?
Levelling up units.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7 it's challenging but easy
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
nothing
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dotdotdots
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Re: Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

Post by dotdotdots » February 1st, 2011, 10:21 pm

(1) What difficulty level and Wesnoth version have you played the scenario on?
1.8.4 Hard

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
1 (just complete the objective)
4 (level up a few units)

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Crystal

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
It's very well done, and it does set the atmosphere. The scripted dialogues (eg key character attacks, orcs capture Conrad's home) contribute significantly.

(5) What were your major challenges in completing the scenario?
Gaining experience for Conrad.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6. Interesting and well written, but not challenging.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
- Increase the difficulty a little, at least for the hard level. Perhaps moving the southern orc base closer to the action?
- Add dialogues when an orc or elf leader dies (and then dialogue gets 10/10 from me).

shadowblack
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Re: Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

Post by shadowblack » February 21st, 2011, 3:04 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.9.4, Normal

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
1 if you just head for the signpost, 2 if you want to level up some units, 3 if you want to avoid losses too

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Fine.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
My self-imposed challenge: Do not lose units and level up as many as you can.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6 – it would have been rather boring if I had just headed for the signpost, but completing the extra objectives I gave myself made things a lot more fun

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I’m not really sure. Maybe move the blue orcs’ camp a bit to the north.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
One lucky orc managed to kill Delfador.


Thoughts:
Pretty easy, as expected of a first scenario. Some careless moves and over-reliance on defense got a few of my units near death, but some good luck with attacks allowed me to level them up, so all ended well.

The blue orcs were almost completely irrelevant, as they were far to the south. The forest combined with the few units Chantal sent their way were more than enough to slow them down, and in the meantime the green and pink orcs were slaughtered despite the good luck of the pink ones. With the forces they had left the elves could win (unfortunately I couldn’t stay and see it happen).
Attachments
HttT-Обсадените_елфи_replay.gz
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Stephanie
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Re: Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

Post by Stephanie » April 10th, 2011, 11:00 pm

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Normal, Hard, 1.9.4

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
1

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
It's okay.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Kill steals from Chantal. Every. [censored]. Time.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
2

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Remove Chantal and Galdrad and the south and northeast orc leaders, leaving just Konrad and the northwest orc warlord, then cut the map down to a third of its size, with Konrad in the lower right. While I appreciate that this campaign is meant to show a huge battle, watching units I don't control and have no vested interest in (since they are too far from my own units) slug it out every time I end a turn makes the scenario frustratingly slow. You could have Chantal and/or Galdrad pop up at the end for some dialogue. Storywise, we could say that this is just a scouting party, but that Asheviere will send more units soon, so Konrad has to leave.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Sometimes, on hard difficulty, the AI will get very lucky and, in a single turn, cut through fodder with enough units left over to kill either Konrad or Delfador. While this could potentially happen in any other scenario, the imbalance of power between the upper left warlord and Konrad+Chantal means it's more likely to happen. I'd say somewhere between 5% and 10% of the time.

Thoughts: My least favorite scenario, simply because I have to wait for all the AI turns.

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Maiklas3000
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Re: Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

Post by Maiklas3000 » April 14th, 2011, 1:30 am

(1) What difficulty? 1.9.5; challenging; I modded default_config.cfg so that it would use the full recruit list, and this
(2) How difficult? (1-10) 3
(3) How clear? Clear.
(4) Dialog? Good.
(5) Challenges? Fighting in a mixed line with my ally while trying to get XP.
(6) How fun? (1-10) 8
(7) Changes? None.
(8) Restarts? No reloads, no restarts.

Replay attached, along with a screenshot. I sent Conrad running, while the rest of my forces formed a screening line for him:
Image

I know others prefer to send the army due north to serve as bait, but this screening works well enough and with less risk.
Attachments
HttT-The_Elves_Besieged_replay.gz
(30.42 KiB) Downloaded 235 times

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Faello
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Re: Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

Post by Faello » May 16th, 2011, 8:08 pm

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

Challenging (Champion) - top difficulty level, 1.9.6, no saves/reloads

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

2.

I think there's a minimal chance to lose this scenario unless player will forget about the turn limit or do something reckless, even with poor combat luck. I've sustained significant losses considering my initial force strenght, but luck wasn't really on my side in this one.

5 losses, 4 kills

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Crystal clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

It's very good, whole storyline of this campaign fits this "crown jewel"/main wesnoth campaign well.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?


Getting at least one level up for my units and bring it to the next scenario. I was able to do that.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

8.

It's simple, yet well designed & action packed scenario. Beginning of the HttT kind of reminds me about the beginning of Baldur's Gate 1 :P

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

No changes required, it's great as it is.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

No.

Replay attached:
Attachments
HttT-The_Elves_Besieged_replay.gz
The Elves Besieged replay, Challenging (Champion) difficulty level, 1.9.6, no saves/reloads
(31.75 KiB) Downloaded 214 times
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Re: Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

Post by WanderingHero » June 1st, 2011, 10:46 am

Newbie opinion time!
(1) Normal
(2) 7, 10 by the standards of a first scenario. This is MUCH too hard for a first ever scenario on normal, and should not be recomened by the tutorial. Two of my friends rage quitted largely because of it.... and for the 3rd I told him to go play Orchish Invasion, and not to hesitate using easy because this game doesn't hold back, though he just played on easy and managed his way through it
(3) Mostly clear, but it isn't goign to be obvious to an absolute newbie that they shouldn't really try fighting the Orcs and just get out of there. I mean their just orcs and don't most first scenarios have weak enemies?
(4) Not that great honestly
(5) Not dying horribly.
(6) As a newbie Scenario... 1/10. It is completely unsuitable for a first timer scenario in a novice campaign, its frustrating, not particurly fun and doesn't show off the beauty of this game. The winning strategy just comes down to running and hiding. Boring. Its very easy to get screwed over by luck on this level, which will make a horrible impression on people starting out. I mean its not inconceivable for 2 60% attacks to hit in a row after you missed, but if this kills Konrad newbies will yell HAX. You should hint that use the reload from start of turn buttons might help...
(7) NOT RECOMEND A FIRST TIMER PLAY IT ON NORMAL. More hints, less orcs, less level 2s, a scenario where you actually fight instead of running away

Saladman
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Re: Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

Post by Saladman » June 28th, 2011, 2:16 am

(1) What difficulty level and Wesnoth version have you played the scenario on?

1.8.6, Easy, Normal & Hard

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) [1]

I originally wrote 3, 5, and 8, respectively. But reading the note at the end, I'll say 10, 10, and 10. My main point of feedback is that this is the most difficult scenario of the campaign for me out of any given difficulty level (actually haven't finished Hard yet, but so far its holding). You've got one turn of recruitment of green units, while the computer opponents are all pulling multiple turns of partly veteran units. And the obvious, kind of in-character approach of keeping your force together guarding the prince doesn't work (well, it does on easy, but that hardly counts), you've got to figure something else out. So there's a "must be this tall to ride" effect, which is fine itself but an odd choice for the recommended introductory campaign. I tried it first on medium, thought "holy mackerel, what's the rest of the campaign going to be like if it gets harder?", went through on easy and was disappointed after this level, went through on medium again with no trouble after this one. Hard's the only challenge for the rest of the campaign, mainly because of the time limit reductions.

I frankly would like to know what the "this one's easy" guys are doing to win easily, cuz I don't see it. Even following the strategy in the wiki I lost several times on Hard before finally just getting some good breaks in addition to hiding behind my allies.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?


Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?


Clear; don't care whether it's interesting or not if I like the game so I'm not the best judge.

(5) What were your major challenges in completing the scenario?

Winning/surviving at all on Hard; keeping units alive; completing with optimal leveling on Medium; judging difficulty of later campaign as above.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

8 taken for what it is; 4 as an opening scenario.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?


I'd make it easier, or re-balance with fewer experienced units for the computer.

Skaithe
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Re: Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

Post by Skaithe » July 13th, 2011, 9:02 am

I'm going to give feedback on every scenario I play. It's the least I can do for you guys for supplying such a quality game for nothing. It's much appreciated, this game is really well done. I have completed the first 4 scenarios and some of the fifth on the hardest difficulty setting so far, so I have to play catch-up.

Also gonna post my replays for [censored] and giggles... don't know if they will be useful.



(1) What difficulty level and Wesnoth version have you played the scenario on?
v1.9.7 Champion - Challenging

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
2 - There were a couple tight-ish spots. i was new to the game though -- perhaps now I would rate it a 1.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear. Didn't want to leave the elves to die though. :( C'est la vie.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Good start, very engaging, kept my interest and gave me a reason to play.

(5) What were your major challenges in completing the scenario?
Not trying to save the elves. :)

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Maybe if you complete the scenario with enough surviving troops, you can "give them" to the remaining elves to give them a shot at repelling the attack long enough to find a means to escape... and later on maybe one or both of the ai commanders from the scenario joins you for it.
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oaq
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Re: Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

Post by oaq » July 25th, 2011, 6:11 pm

(1) What difficulty level and Wesnoth version have you played the scenario on?

Hard (challenging/champion), 1.8.5.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

3 or 5.

Simply to beat the scenario rates a 3. To beat it in a manner that sets one up to do well in the following scenarios however is harder: this rates a 5.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

All objectives I have met in Heir to the Throne are clear. This scenario is no exception.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

The dialog is well-imagined and well-written. The storyline prudently follows a classic legendary theme, and does so with style.

(5) What were your major challenges in completing the scenario?

There were several challenges, none of them especially hard, but each of them interesting:
Spoiler:
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

All the scenarios I have met in Heir to the Throne are fun. The entire campaign rates a 9, and so does this scenario. However, strictly relative to other scenarios in the same campaign, this one rates a solid 4. The most frustrating part probably regards allies who pick off wounded foes before you get to them -- frustrating not because one wants the XP (you cannot always have what you want after all: that's what makes the game interesting) but because I have never found a good tactic even to decrease the chance that allies will pick off wounded foes before I get to them. Not in The Elves Besieged. There are too many allied troops for that. The frustration however is mild and is probably inherent in the kind of scenario The Elves Besieged is. I don't suppose that you can fix it.

One of the things I like best about Heir to to Throne is that it intersperses incidental battle scenarios, like this one, among straight battle scenarios, like Blackwater Port. The straight battle scenario is and ought to be the mainstay of any good wargame, of course, but it should not be the sole kind of scenario. The Elves Besieged is a running and rearguarding scenario. It's a fun one.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

I know of no need for changes. I especially like the scenario's fine music sequence. The scenario is excellent, just as it is.

If a change were to be made nonetheless, then a few, scattered clear hexes and/or pairs of clear hexes might be left in the forest near the southern orc camp (such clear hexes would funnel the orcs either toward the road or away from it, or both, but I don't know which way it is preferable to funnel them). The reason for the clear hexes is to give the southern orcs a slightly faster start, boosting the chance that goblin knights and pillagers will nip Delfador's heels on turn 8. For the same reason, the village on the road south of Konrad's castle might be shifted one or two hexes north, leaving a goblin knight or pillager there in a better position to strike across the river, if indeed the AI is capable of exploiting the position (if the AI would just grab more villages from that station, then there's little point in shifting the village in question).

At the hard level, 20 extra gold pieces might not make the scenario much easier for Konrad, but might further broaden his strategic options. With 100 gold pieces, it soon grows plain that a direct battle in the far west is a pretty unlikely option, but with 120 it might be tempting to try it. On the other hand, the 20 extra gold pieces might inadvertently put off newcomers to Wesnoth, who discover that the direct battle they cannot quite win can be evaded by tricking the AI -- which would not be fair to the well-implemented AI, but which might be the first impression a newcomer is left with nonetheless. If this is so, then it's best to leave Konrad 100 gold pieces and thus no realistic hope of winning a direct battle. On the other, other hand, I was speaking of the hard level, which newcomers to Wesnoth should probably not be playing, anyway, so maybe 20 extra gold is worth trying, after all.

The thoughts are offered because the thread's original post has asked for them. The scenario works well as it is, in my view, and needs no changes at all.

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