Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

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Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

Post by Content Feedback » August 29th, 2004, 3:27 pm

(1) What difficulty level and Wesnoth version have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) [1]
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in completing the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

[1] preferably, this should be rated relative to other scenarios in the campaign, such that the easiest scenario in the campaign is rated '1', and the most difficult '10'. i.e. even if you didn't think the campaign is very hard, you should still rate the hardest scenario '10'.
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turin
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Post by turin » August 29th, 2004, 4:19 pm

(1): Easy, Medium
(2): about a 3. Not that hard, and some later scenarios are harder, but harder than, say, Blackwater Port.
(3): I knew what i was supposed to do even when I was new to wesnoth. But i didn't know until near the end of my first try that you can move your leader off the keep. ;)
(4): Dialogue was good, more interesting than most scenarios. (i guess it has to be, since its the introduction).
(5): Getting advanced units. I can usually only get 1. :(
(6): 7. Its challenging, but not too challenging, and its fun playing elves in a mostly forest map. :twisted:
(7): Maybe give the enemies more gold, but then again, i never played it on hard mode. Also, it might be good to add more terrain so its not just a sea of forest. (that clump of hills i think really adds strategy, maybe add more like it?)
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Post by silene » August 29th, 2004, 5:12 pm

(1) Easy, medium, and hard.
(2) It depends on personal objective: 1 for just fleeing, 6 for leveling up units, 9 for crushing all the ennemies before the time limit (I didn't try it in hard difficulty).
(3) Clear (too bad I didn't read them the first time I played).
(4) Clear, but a bit long. A good introduction.
(5) Leveling up units is a bit hard. Even if troll warriors are not a good idea in forest against elves, they are still heavy hitters.
(6) Not sure, 7 maybe.
(7) South ennemies are a bit too far, it could be more challenging if they were nearer: the player should not start from the middle of the map. It would also be fun if pink elves were not that weak (but also give more gold to yellow orcs to compensate).

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Post by autolycus » August 29th, 2004, 5:16 pm

1) Medium
2) It depends on your strategy: 1-5
3) Very obvious: 10
4) Dialogue fun, but you should feel more pain if your allies get killed.
5) Ah, here is where strategy comes in:
5a) If you just make an end run, there is no challenge at all because your western ally can normally block or delay the orcs enough for you to run around the brawl and exit. It would be harder if Delfador had to make it too - but oddly enough, he doesn't. Only Konrad needs to get there.
5b) It is much tougher if you decide to actually recruit units, keep your allies alive and even level up a few of your recruits. See below.
6) It's a fun scenario for the beginner. It is fun for the seasoned player if he sets goals like those I've mentioned above.
7) Only for my amusement, I make Delfador run to the signpost, I try to level up at least 5 units, and I also keep both my allies alive. I'm not sure if that's not too much for a beginner. Perhaps it would be good to start Konrad with a small army of 3-4 units and less gold; these would be his faithful retainers in the last mad rush to escape the Queen's allies - and it would also entice players into other choices besides just running for it... :)
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Post by Na'enthos » August 29th, 2004, 6:55 pm

1) Medium
2) Easy (2) (to explain.. almost a walk in the park. ´Almost´ because it´s the first scenario)
3) Very clear
4) Very nice.. good as introduction.
5) Keeping one´s allies alive. First scenario after the tutorial.. so it doesn´t need more.
6) First scenario.. lots of fun with a great forest map. Especially if one tries to keep one´s allies alive and defeat the opposing forces (as far as time permits) (9).
7) Optional ability to wipe out the opposing forces will be a lot of fun.. although it doesn´t follow the storyline (and therefore not necessary to include). One of the best scenarios IMHO.. but then, I like my elves and forested maps. :wink:

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Re: Scenario Review: Elves Besieged

Post by Elvish_Pillager » August 29th, 2004, 7:11 pm

(1) Easy, Normal, Hard
(2) 7
(3) very
(4) I'm too used to it, can't comment
(5) Orcs getting in the way. Even worse, using Konrad/Delfador to kill things, then they die from exposure.
(6) 3
(7) Put the northwest orc a bit farther west, and put in more grass on the way. It's a real nuisance moving Konrad through forest, but after he gets out he just walks over to the signpost easily.
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Post by Bandobras » August 29th, 2004, 7:25 pm

(1) easy, medium
(2) difficulty is like 3, because with some choices of the route and some orcish recrutment (some trolls, much crossbow) the west elves are crushed quickly and you cannot escape. With some replays you learn the route and most of the replays leave the western elves standing long enough or even winning.
(3) perfectly clear
(4) clear
(5) challenge mostly in choosing good strategy to gather most resources for the next scenarios. Beginner's choice is to recruit max and run for it, which is naive. Then I had to try how much money I can get by not recruiting and runnig. Then how much experience and gold by recruiting. I ended up in maximally recruting, visiting western elves keep, maximally recruiting here, killing the western orc leader, recruiting maximally on his keep and milking scenario to the end by bashind other orcs. On easy I was able to kill both north orc leaders, bot without horsemen this is hard, because scouts are so weak.
(6) A lot of stress and then relief for the beginner. This is good. Then a lot of frustration when you first try to wrench experience from those damned elves. Then a lot of tedious tactical work when you start to manipulate elves to become a fodder, then to get them killed in time to leave the leader to you, etc. The large map with the clever AI makes this time-consuming.
(7) Perhaps give some incentive to try and keep the elves alive, until you escape, instead of trying to get them killed. Like a free elven unit for the next scenario from each of the surviving elf leaders? Or some gold for each? Or some gold for each surviving elven unit? Or be able to recall all the surviving elven units some scenarios ahead (with their experience kept). Or make the survival of the leaders an objective, but then the huge difference in the possible orc recruitment should be removed or there is no strategy, only 30 replays until the elves win by themselves --- beginners are not used to this basic strategic tool. :)

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Re: Scenario Review: Elves Besieged

Post by isaac » August 30th, 2004, 11:05 am

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Medium, Hard
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
Fleeing - 2, fleeing and leveling units - 5, protect elven leaders - 9
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear even the first time.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
It was really good for an introduction.
(5) What were your major challenges in completing the scenario?
To move Konrad through the forest :P, try to level as many units as possible, try to protect elves.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Give reward to player if he manages to protect elves.

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Re: Scenario Review: Elves Besieged

Post by Gafgarion » August 30th, 2004, 11:54 am

(1) Medium
(2) 3
(3) Very clear, I understood it perfectly even when I was but a wee wesnoth newbie.
(4) Clear and interesting.
(5) Providing a 'wall' suitably strong to allow Konrad to reach the signpost in relative safety.
(6) 8. Good, energetic introduction to HttT. Not terribly complex, but I love battles with allies and fleeing scenarios.
(7) I really can't think of anything specific. Elves Besieged is very solid in my opinion.
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Post by Dacyn » August 30th, 2004, 12:42 pm

1=Medium
2=2
3=very
4=very
5=Delfador getting killed. :)
6=3
7=The most annoying part of this scenario is when allies steal your XP. Perhaps the AI should be modified to anticipate that you will be able to finish off units it leaves mortally wounded?

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Post by Rothrorn » September 1st, 2004, 7:51 am

1 = easy
2 = 2, nice gentle intro for newbies
3 = clear enough
4 = ok, maybe slightly cliched - but I couldn't do it any better!
5 = levelling up units, getting Konrad some experience and surviving
6 = 8
7 = none neeeded
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Post by Gimli » September 1st, 2004, 11:46 am

[1] Medium
[2] 1 for fleeing only, 3 if you want some XP
[3] Very clear, it's impossible to miss the waypoint
[4] Nice introduction to the campaign
[5] Killing enemies before the allied units do, to get XP; moving Konrad and Delfador through the forest (damn, they're sluggish, compared to the elves)
[6] 7; I like watching the western elves fight to the death :P
[7] It is perfect as it is

pjr

Re: Scenario Review: Elves Besieged

Post by pjr » September 3rd, 2004, 6:39 am

Dave wrote: (1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Easy and Normal
Dave wrote: (2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) [1]
6
I'm giving this scenario a high difficulty ranking because I find it difficult to give units experience without risking death. Merely completing the objectives is very easy.
Dave wrote: (3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear.
Dave wrote: (4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Excellent. The plot is explained very well.
Dave wrote: (5) What were your major challenges in completing the scenario?
A mixture of keeping recruited units alive and gaining experience before teh elvish allies kill everything in the north-west.
Dave wrote: (6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
4
It's OK, but it has to be played repeatedly while learning the game and loses interest eventually.
Dave wrote: (7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
On Easy, I'd like to be able to go out and kick orc ass without worrying too much about dying. I think there are too many level 2 enemies. There are also too many elves, who tend to kill things before my units reach them. I find that gaining XP at the start of the campaign is crucial and that it's quite difficult to do so.

However, if you keep it just the way it is I'll be happy.

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Re: Scenario Review: Elves Besieged

Post by Integral » September 6th, 2004, 12:58 am

Dave wrote: (1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Easy and Medium.
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) [1]
3
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Entirely clear.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Pretty good, but:

- "It is imperative that you escape" sounds strange in that context. I would substitute "essential".

- It would be nice if there was some dialog when each Elvish leader died (and extra for both, of course).
(5) What were your major challenges in completing the scenario?
Keeping the main characters alive, the first few times I played. Later, the fact that my allies steal all my potential kills, and .. er .. I tend to get overenthusiastic about killing Orcs and end up without time to get Konrad to the signpost :oops:.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6 - not particularly annoying (unlike, say, Test of the Clans), but definitely not my favorite either.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I've always thought it's a little strange for this to be the first level of HttT, since it's such an atypical level, but this might be just me.

Daniel

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Re: Scenario Review: Elves Besieged

Post by Mkgego » September 6th, 2004, 1:08 am

1. All 3
2. On easy very easy... on medium easy and on hard normal :D
3. Very clear
4. Really boring...I think it is the map that i most dislike of all...
5 Try to kill some level 2 units to upgrade some elves :P
6. 2... look at point number 4. !
7. Maybe remove it from the campain or maybe make a new scneario
with better stile...Or put some other scenarios before...
WoW C-Mode activated...
For the horde :D

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