Scenario 24: Battle for Wesnoth

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vanatteveldt
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Joined: March 21st, 2009, 12:20 am

Re: Scenario 24: Battle for Wesnoth

Post by vanatteveldt » August 29th, 2013, 11:18 am

Content Feedback wrote:Note: If you didn't know, the final scenario in Heir to the Throne is named "The Battle for Wesnoth." This thread has nothing to do with the overall game - only this one scenario.

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on? Medium 1.10.4, first time player
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) 5
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives? Crystal
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario? Not very impressive for a "finale"
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario? The initial rush, especially of lancers capable of dealing incredibly heavy lucky strikes
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10) 7
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I think the scenario is quite fun because it is a major battle. For the first time, the objective is killing the enemy in open field, rather than milking the enemy for xp.

I didn't consider an assasination mission, so duked it out on the field. I had one knight from the plains and 1150 gold. I recruited all my lvl 3's (mostly mages and elves and some dragonguards) en lvl 2's (a number of dwarves); after that 2 or three castles full of knights.

It was fun to coordinate the battle, dealing damage especially against the level 3 units while healing the wounded, guarding the nobles, and keeping the battle line intact. Lucky strikes caused moments of joy and bad luck moments of despair, when I had counted on killing an enemy to restore the line and get a noble out of harms way, but having two units fail to kill at 90% odds. The AI seems slightly smarter than normal in not immediately sending in all the fast forces first, but rather concentrating its army just out of reach and then attacking with full power. This lead to 3 turns or so of intense battle, although I think I lost only one or two of my veterans and a bunch of knights (which I used as suicide attacks and stopgaps) and killed heaps of theirs. I had to replay some of the earlier scenarios but I don't think I could have lost this if I tried (except for sending Kalenz into battle single handedly :-) )

That said, it is anticlimactic that it ends the way it does. After killing the army I can just wander over to the queen and pick straws for who gets the final blow. Below is a screenshot which shows that my army is more or less intact and vastly overpowered, and the queen just wandered out of her castle to the execution grounds:

Image


Although I guess it is hard to balance the battle since the player's force is greatly dependent on how he played the campaign, I am sure that my force was not incredible as this is my first play of my first campaign in Wesnoth. So, I think it would be safe to give the minor leaders a bunch extra gold to do another round of recruiting. Also, they should really charge into battle with their troops when they are out of gold, especially since they have no income.

Secondly, I think the end should not be the way it is now. For one, the queen needs some bodyguards that stay with her, like Li'sar had in an earlier campaign, to prevent assasination and to make sure that part of the battle moves to the castle. Also, I think she should not be killed in this scenario. Rather, attacking/killing/approaching her should trigger the end of the scenario with her fleeing inside the castle. The next scenario can then be an inside no-keep scenario with the player nobles going in for the kill. Since player strength is known for this scenario, this could be balanced such that it is difficult enough that some tactics are needed. This also allows for a surprise such as her having a lich king as hidden advisor to explain her evilness, which could also give a more realistic opportunity for Li'sar to see the true nature of her mother.

Finally, the campaign can use some surprises, such as (undead? sea serpent?) reinforcements arriving, treason in the ranks of the player, etc. Maybe trigger a "defend the citadel' event when the main enemy army is gone, with some sea monsters in the moat and royal guards etc defending the city.

Another way to balance the scenario a bit might be to let the player keep disappear in 3 turns or so, to limit the endless stream of knights recruitable by a player with too much money. This would also offer some incentive to attack an enemy keep and use it as a reinforcement base.

Laveley
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Joined: November 24th, 2013, 8:16 pm

Re: Scenario 24: Battle for Wesnoth

Post by Laveley » November 27th, 2013, 1:23 pm

Just finished the final level yesterday, and the strategy i used was:

DWARF GUARDSMAN SPAM!!! :lol:

I know this isnt the best strategy, neither the quicker one, but certainly it is the coolest one!

I felt i was playing medieval total war again, almost could listen the dwarfs screaming "Shield Wall!" and "Keep the line"! Hahaha! Very cool scenario, i think people dont like it because take on the "easy" way sending an assassin crew to the desert area at south to kill the queen even before the "fun" part of the battles starts!

Gonna attach my replay!
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Linthar
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Joined: September 14th, 2006, 12:16 am

Re: Scenario 24: Battle for Wesnoth

Post by Linthar » July 10th, 2014, 2:27 am

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Medium Difficulty 1.10.7

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
6.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
The twist at the start where it was revealed that Konrad was not actually the prince, but had just been some random child was actually nice and original, even if it did feel a little like a last minute attempt to take care of any potential conflict from their being two people who could have claimed to be the heir to the throne. Asheviere having a mere three lines of dialog before being defeated was a bit anticlimatic though. Finally meeting the villian of a 24 scenario campaign face to face should be more dramatic. The different dialogs each character had for defeating her (especially Delfador's) were good though, even if its quite likely you'll just see the generic dialog you get when any unit kills her if you don't know to specifically let one of the main characters get the killing blow.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The main challenge was the enemy finally threw a formidable force of level 3 units against me, compounded by having to fight them on a wide open field which is absolutely terrible terrain for trying to control a large fight. However I had a huge army of level 3 units I could recall, to even the odds. It was a bloodbath though, and I last more leveled units then I had probably lost in all the levels after the valley of the dead combined. I could have tried to play smarter and saved more of them but since it was the final level it didn't particularly matter.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8. It was nice to have a scenario where I could finally put the full force of the army I had worked so hard to raise to use. The only disappointment was that facing Asheviere was a real letdown. The scenario basically has a huge fight at the start where every enemy unit rushes you, and when you beat them the queen is left basically defenseless.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Really the queen needs to have some better defenses, whether they are units scripted to never leave the center isle, or a scripted event that gives her a gold boost, or reinforcements when someone gets close, really anything to stop the end of the scenario from being a huge anticlimax.

yahiko
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Joined: July 26th, 2014, 1:12 am

Re: Scenario 24: Battle for Wesnoth

Post by yahiko » August 3rd, 2014, 12:09 am

Image

Battle of Wesnoth is trolling me! :shock:

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Played on Medium difficulty, v1.11.16

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
Quite difficult: 7

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Kill'em all.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Good vs Evil, and Happy End.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Not being too impressed by the overwhelming assault. But after some practice, with a good Dwarf Defense, it is managable.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8: I liked to figure out how to survive (and win) even if the odds seem to be against us.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Couple of extra dialogs could have been nice. But nothing really important.

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darkeye28
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Re: Scenario 24: Battle for Wesnoth

Post by darkeye28 » March 12th, 2015, 7:25 pm

1)easy, 1.12
2)very easy, 3
3)clear
4)nice, kill an evil queen, so you can claim the throne
5)none
6)6, it don't has too much history
7)more dialogs
Why are you reading this? Are you stupid? There is nothing to see here, stop reading this now! Or I will... Anyway, do you like One Piece?

bizulk
Posts: 5
Joined: March 11th, 2015, 10:24 pm

Re: Scenario 24: Battle for Wesnoth

Post by bizulk » March 30th, 2015, 1:00 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
Normal 1.12.1
(2) How difficlt did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8 Reloaded 3-4 times because a I can't stand losing some units (that's a shame), did not correctly prepare my Unit Wall.
I did not realize that Dwaqrvish would be so useful, had only one at level 3. Having more units at level 2 would have been a good thing.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very Clear. Beat the bi***

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Quite straightthrough. Lisar Let Konrad kills her mother without any word, and then marry him. Many men are dreaming about that ...

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Stand The initial rush, save hand heal units.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
8.5

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
More pictures of the team, when suffering the wall, when beating up. More dialogs between Lisar and mother triying to convince her back...

Violet-n-red
Posts: 33
Joined: June 27th, 2015, 2:38 pm

Re: Scenario 24: Battle for Wesnoth

Post by Violet-n-red » July 4th, 2015, 11:28 am

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
normal, 1.12.2, a thousand or a bit more gold just from finishing previous scenrio super fast.
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
9 on the first few tries, 5 when i found out i can recruit 2lvl horsemen.
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
perfectly clear.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
good.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
maknig enemy units die faster than my own does.
first try - mixed army, mostly of veterans, getting pushed too fast.
second try - DWARVISH GUARDSMEEEEN!! all of them!! well, most of them. not less than two thirds. battle was going really slow, and THEN...
third try - only then i noticed that i can recruit all those amazing new horseman people! restarted, spammed knights, won without much effort.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
4
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
was very disappointed with the map. make it bigger maybe? make it so that we actually have to fight inside the city? we could not step on any villages most of the time, and when we could - we already won. also, queen just stepepd out of the city, so my lancers did not even had to step in. that was funny. battle in the capital - but outside of capital. we did not even made it to the ity walls even once.
(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
yes, i was too tired to notice i can recruit advanced horsemen, had to restart when i finally seen i can do that.

sjfbeale
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Re: Scenario 24: Battle for Wesnoth

Post by sjfbeale » July 18th, 2015, 7:48 pm

1) 1.5.2 (Easy) 1.6.4 (Easy) 1.12.4 (Normal)
2) 7 (Normal Difficulty)
3) Does it need saying? I think it's been quite clear since the start what the ultimate objective is.
4) Enjoyed the reflective story, and was sort of indifferent about the dialogue.
5) Definitely keeping some of my veteran troops alive (I'm overprotective about my high-level troops)
6) 8
7) I think a larger battlefield would have made it better. It can get quite tedious just having all the troops build up about 5 hexes away from Konrad's keep.

I would suggest trying to get a Silver Mage by this scenario, it is extremely important in this strategy. I started by recalling some of my veteran troops, enough to hold the front line.
USEFUL TROOPS:

Assassins. If you have kept the 4 loyal thieves/rogue that you received in the Siege of Elensefar (6th Scenario) try and level them up. Their high defense makes them very effective in the front line.

Dwarfish fighters - Simply for their high resistance.

Dwarfish Guardsmen - Steadfast (This means their resistances are doubled)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reinforce this line with healers. Move a silver mage onto the nearest village. Recruit two Gryphons. Send them across the river, once they have captured a village, send one to attack the queen. The Silver Mage will teleport in and do the rest.

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StandYourGround
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Re: Scenario 24: Battle for Wesnoth

Post by StandYourGround » July 24th, 2015, 2:25 am

sjfbeale wrote:1) 1.5.2 (Easy) 1.6.4 (Easy) 1.12.4 (Normal)
2) 7 (Normal Difficulty)
3) Does it need saying? I think it's been quite clear since the start what the ultimate objective is.
4) Enjoyed the reflective story, and was sort of indifferent about the dialogue.
5) Definitely keeping some of my veteran troops alive (I'm overprotective about my high-level troops)
6) 8
7) I think a larger battlefield would have made it better. It can get quite tedious just having all the troops build up about 5 hexes away from Konrad's keep.

I would suggest trying to get a Silver Mage by this scenario, it is extremely important in this strategy. I started by recalling some of my veteran troops, enough to hold the front line.
USEFUL TROOPS:

Assassins. If you have kept the 4 loyal thieves/rogue that you received in the Siege of Elensefar (6th Scenario) try and level them up. Their high defense makes them very effective in the front line.

Dwarfish fighters - Simply for their high resistance.

Dwarfish Guardsmen - Steadfast (This means their resistances are doubled)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reinforce this line with healers. Move a silver mage onto the nearest village. Recruit two Gryphons. Send them across the river, once they have captured a village, send one to attack the queen. The Silver Mage will teleport in and do the rest.
Hmm... sounds like you leave a lot to chance. Personally, I just went all out with my top level heavy hitters and tanks in front, specialty units behind, be they assassins, healers, mages, or outlaws. Kept the Knights in reserve to strike through weak points, and used Assassins to prevent flanking. They also served as great magnets for attack, with their relatively low HP and weak retaliation to ranged. This would result in several poisoned enemies, and lots of open weak spots to hit HARD as the AI wasted too many resources on the elusive Assassins (this is also a great reason not to use them in the center, but to spread them around to mess up the AI's front line). The Queen's army was crushed in just a handful of turns, with roughly 5 or 6 casualties for every one of mine. Then it was no problem at all to overwhelm the practically defenseless city and win it all.
I will now resume lurking silently.

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SigurdFireDragon
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Re: Scenario 24: Battle for Wesnoth

Post by SigurdFireDragon » April 12th, 2016, 5:38 am

Played on 1.12.5 Hero (Normal) 1374 gold

The story and the dialog seems fine to me.

First time I played, I just decided to have fun and recall every level 2 or up, expect for the merfolk. Some of them ended up being meat shields. Won the battle.

The challenge I faced here was to get myself to play it again, with a more strategic approach.

My second attempt I limited myself to about 700 gold, but it ended in defeat, due to lack of seriousness on my part. (replay omitted.)

My 3rd attempt, I wanted to find a way to win that didn't rely on any of the easter eggs or special recruits. Decided to limit myself to 800 gold (ended up only spending 510 + the negative upkeep) and used 3 Shydes, and various recruit/recalls from the dwarf fighter, elvish archer, horseman, and mage lines. I only recalled one loyal. This was successful, though there are a few spots where I got a little careless.
Attachments
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1.12.5 Normal - Victory on a Budget
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HttT-The_Battle_for_Wesnoth_replay_T19-1V0.gz
1.12.5 Normal - Victory with all the units
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Caladbolg
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Re: Scenario 24: Battle for Wesnoth

Post by Caladbolg » April 14th, 2016, 8:41 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
1.12.5, medium.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4. Even with some restrictions (no loyals, less gold) it was easy due to the amount of high level units I had. It depends on how well you did throughout the campaign and it was easy for me because I did much better than I usually do. I think that it could stand being more challenging- it is the final battle after all.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
I like how each main character gets their own special dialog if they kill the queen. I don't like that the big bad is given so little screentime. One minor quibble I have is that Delfador says that he's 'always been a humble servant of the Crown'. In the Delfador's Memoirs there's a scene where he gets the staff of An-Usrukhar who asks Delfador about his allegiance. When Delf says that he serves the crown and the king, he dismisses him by saying 'Your king will die in an eyeblink and your kingdom in the drawing of a breath.' Only when Delf says that he serves the light does he earn the right to wield the staff. Considering that he mentions the staff here, I think it would be more fitting if he said that he's always been a servant of 'light' (and not of the 'crown') and it would be a nice contrast with Asheviere who is the Dark Queen. It would add to the flavor I think. Oh, and I think that having some fluff about your surviving loyal units when you finish the campaign would be good (what happened to Moremirmu, Elrian, Haldiel, etc.?).

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
None really. Well, maybe not panicking when there are hordes of level 3 units going my way but nothing serious.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7. Completely overwhelming the strongest army so far can't be boring ^^.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Maybe some slight changes to AI or enemy income or units to make things more difficult. Currently Asheviere exits her castle to fight even though she's really weak for a level 3 unit (might change that as well). In general, I'd like it if Asheviere stayed put in her castle, surrounded by Royal Guards and Iron Maulers (we didn't see those in the campaign at all?). Maybe also some units that pop up when you reach her castle. More starting income for enemy leaders. Move Konrad's camp slightly more to S so that recalling mermen becomes feasible (so you can go all out on last scenario). I also think that it would be good of Asheviere was more powerful but maybe not in terms of raw power... give her some special like stone (but restrict it to a few turns so it's not permanent) or slowing aura to weaken surrounding enemies. Also, making all enemy recruits 'loyal' could be interesting.

Note: I didn't recall any loyal units because I wanted to finish the campaign without losing any loyals. I also left one of each highest level unit on my recall list (to finish the campaign with a specimen of each highest level unit; though I did accidentally recall a Sylph and only noticed it the next turn, but I kept her safe) and restricted myself to 1082 starting gold (400 default + 682 carried over if we take into account restrictions on gold from the previous scenario).

One last time:
-starting gold: 1275 (limiting myself to 1082 starting gold; by the end only 700 was used in total)
-strategy: Suicide attacks by veteran units until all enemies are destroyed :twisted:
-recruits(5): 5x Knight
-recalls(25): no loyals or mermen... I'm not going to list them all here. (+4 loyal Grand Knights from the previous scenario)
-turn 8: one of the loyal Grand Knights from the previous scenario kills the General; most enemies are defeated
-turn 9: a Dwarvish Lord kills the Orcish Warlord; Asheviere exits the safety of the castle with no guards, and kills him, but ends up in proximity of my level 3 units including all protagonists... one wonders how she managed to hold the throne for so long :augh:
-I'll cut of Ash from getting back to the keep to prevent her from recruiting and I'll proceed to systematically slaughter all enemy units ^^
-turn 11: Kalenz kills the Cavalier
-turn 12: Delfador kills Asheviere
-turns taken: 12/60
-end: 333 gold, 29/29 villages, all enemy leaders defeated
-no reloads
-losses(21): ...too long...
-advancements(2): Hero->Champion, Stalwart->Sentinel
-dmg dealt: +2%
-dmg taken: +4%
Comments on the entire campaign:
Attachments
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LordWolfDan
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Re: Scenario 24: Battle for Wesnoth

Post by LordWolfDan » October 22nd, 2018, 6:40 pm

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?

- 1.14.5, Beginner

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

- 7

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

- Easy, kill Asheviere!

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

- I like it. I have chosen Konrad to be the one who kills Asheviere, which is good, but could be, of course, better. Plus I did not see that one coming with Konrad (main character) not being the heir, but prince Konrad being killed in Asheviere's purges. At least the marriage between Konrad and Li'sar deems more reasonable here.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

- Surviving enemy waves, one after another

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

- 7

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

- Either if one of Asheviere's allies switches allegiances or having to beat all three allies of hers in order to reach her.

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