Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

Feedback for the mainline campaign Heir to the Throne.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Re: Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

Postby Caladbolg » March 6th, 2016, 6:48 pm

(1) What difficulty level and Wesnoth version have you played the scenario on?
Version 1.12.5, difficulty Hero/Normal/Medium. I played this scenario several times before on different versions so I knew what to expect, but it was always on easy, so this was my first time on medium difficulty.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4. My primary focus wasn't on getting a lot of XP and it would probably be harder if I tried to do so. Instead, my goal was to reach the signpost and remove enemies along the way in case an opportunity presents itself.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Clear, but I think that there's a bit too much story in the exposition before the scenario. Aside from that, it was interesting.

(5) What were your major challenges in completing the scenario?
No challenges in completing it but I had a hard time resisting the temptation to kill low HP level 3 units which had a lot of support nearby. I played it safer than I usually do.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
4. I don't like large scale battles because they drag on forever (though this one wasn't as bad as they can be because it has relatively few turns). Watching my allies steal kills was a bit frustrating as well.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Maybe doing something about the south leader. He's so far south that he doesn't really have much of an effect on anything but you have to wait for him to move all his units.

That aside, here are some potentially relevant tidbits:
-recruits: 1x Shaman, 1x Scout, 2x Archer, 2x Fighter
-no save-reloading
-got especially lucky on turn 10 when Delfador managed to get all 4 hits on a lvl 3 Troll which was promptly disposed of by my other units
-got a bit of luck on turn 11 as well- Chantal's troops managed to weaken three lvl 2 units, making them easy pickings. I decided to stay a turn longer than previously intended in order to cash in on that.
-killed NW leader
-no units lost
-9 units killed
-finished on turn 12
-6 villages, 105 gold at the end
-3 advancements: Fighter->Captain; Shaman->Druid; Archer->Ranger
-other units: Konrad gained 18 XP; a Scout on the verge of leveling up; an Archer at around 50% XP; 2nd Fighter also has a bit of XP
-inflicted dmg +21%
-received dmg -36%
-as seen from the stats, I was quite lucky overall, though I guess it's expected too see uneven luck when the turn limit is short
Attachments
HttT-The_Elves_Besieged_replay.gz
(33.41 KiB) Downloaded 67 times
Caladbolg
 
Posts: 79
Joined: January 1st, 2016, 4:40 pm
Location: Hopelessly trapped within the Submachine

Re: Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

Postby rmj » April 5th, 2016, 5:18 am

There's a lot of complaints about allies stealing kills. How about changing side numbers for orcs and allies so that the allies attack before the orcs do?


Suggestions for Easy level: the allies do a lot of damage to the orcs. I found that with three or four turns before Konrad reached the signpost my recruits had nothing to go for except a probable suicide run at a fortress. Perhaps give the two orcs in the north some income so that they will continually spawn units to attack.
User avatar
rmj
 
Posts: 251
Joined: July 4th, 2010, 5:21 am

Re: Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

Postby Tad_Carlucci » April 24th, 2016, 4:58 pm

(1) What difficulty level and Wesnoth version have you played the scenario on?

Hero(Normal) 1.12.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

6 or 7-ish somewhere I saw an alternate guide for this which makes a LOT more sense. My first run at it it was '1' (hard to fail unless you try) but I quickly learned that the 'OK, got it, it's a race to the exit' stated goal is a Bad Idea. My goal, now, is to forget gold and go for XP .. that makes it quite a bit harder. The way I play it, I depend upon a bit of luck, so 6 or 7, on that scale.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Very clear. Um, actually Misleadingly Clear!

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Very clear. Initially, quite interesting. Eventually I learned to go back to reading a book or watch some TV while clicking 12 times to bypass it yet again.

(5) What were your major challenges in completing the scenario?

Learning to turn the tables and steal XP from my allies.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

5. I must enjoy it a lot, I keep going back to it.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

This is not so much a scenario suggestion as a game suggestion. All those chats are nice, the first few times through, and you're well advised to read them carefully. But, after a few times it would Sure Be Nice if there were an option, or a button I could press, to bypass them all and get directly to it being my turn. Something like the Skip button on the intro sequence, but for the click-chatter once you're past that.

I see a lot of comments about the southern enemy being too far away, the allies stealing XP, etc.

I disagree.

After realizing that simply racing to the exit is bad .. sure, you have gold, but you don't have any experience .. I started asking myself, "Self, what are you missing here?" I tried making a run at the north-eastern enemies .. too tough and too aggressive. Sure, I can take some but they typically wipe me out. When I tried taking on the north-western enemy I ran into rampant XP theft, as so many complain about.

Finally, after a few days running it over and over (and hearing myself repeatedly saying, "Self, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results"), I realized I had never seriously taken a run at the southern enemies.

What I have found is that, if I stage a two-pronged attack southward, I can level up several units, kill the southern leader, and actually steal XP from Chantal's forces rather than have her constantly doing the same to me. To complete the scenario, yes, I depend upon luck, since I've committed Konrad, alone and unguarded, to the western edge of the map. and must hope the north-western forces commit more to the center, and Chantal can clear their western flank for him. But, that happens more often than not, and luck does not enter into the sub-goal of gaining XP by taking out the southern leader.

So, no, I find the southern enemy Just Right and have found a way to turn the tables on the allies and steal their XP.
I forked real life and now I'm getting merge conflicts.
Tad_Carlucci
Developer
 
Posts: 210
Joined: April 24th, 2016, 4:18 pm

Re: Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

Postby beetlenaut » April 24th, 2016, 5:31 pm

Tad_Carlucci wrote:it would Sure Be Nice if there were an option, or a button I could press, to bypass them all and get directly to it being my turn.
You can press [esc] to skip them.
Campaigns: Dead Water
The Founding of Borstep
Secrets of the Ancients
User avatar
beetlenaut
Developer
 
Posts: 2075
Joined: December 8th, 2007, 3:21 am
Location: Washington State

Re: Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

Postby Tad_Carlucci » April 24th, 2016, 8:07 pm

Ah. ESC. That did it, thanks!

Here's a replay (version 1.12.5) of my approach. No saves/reloads. 8 recruits, 0 recalls, 3 advancements, 0 losses, 9 kills. Ends on turn 14 with 41 gold (16 bonus to Blackwater Port):
Konrad lvl 1 (16/28)
Elvish Shaman lvl 1 (11/32)
Elvish Shaman lvl 1 (12/26)
Elvish Ranger lvl 2 (4/90)
Elvish Ranger lvl 2 (21/72)
Elvish Fighter lvl 1 (10/40)
Elvish Captain lvl 2 (8/90)
Elvish Archer lvl 1 (20/44)
Elvish Archer lvl 1 (20/35)
Delfador lvl 5 (5/200)

This could have ended on turn 13 but I waited to get the second Elvish Ranger. Notice that all level 1 units are at least 25% of the way to level 2, and a Ranger is well on his way to level 3. I might have done a bit better, but Chantal did manage to steal XP for one kill.
Attachments
HttT-The_Elves_Besieged_replay.gz
(37.65 KiB) Downloaded 84 times
I forked real life and now I'm getting merge conflicts.
Tad_Carlucci
Developer
 
Posts: 210
Joined: April 24th, 2016, 4:18 pm

Re: Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

Postby Flameslash » August 18th, 2016, 4:12 pm

(1) Normal difficulty, Wesnoth 1.13.5
(2) 2
(3) Crystal clear
(4) The dialogue isn't bad, but there's plenty of room for improvement
(5) Getting a level 2 unit
(6) 6; a decent introduction
(7) No changes needed
User avatar
Flameslash
 
Posts: 595
Joined: December 21st, 2008, 12:29 pm

Re: Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

Postby MrA4 » March 10th, 2017, 9:05 pm

(1) What difficulty level and Wesnoth version have you played the scenario on?
[ ] Champion (Challenging) 1.12.6

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
[ ] 2 For this campaign.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
[ ] Pretty Clear, but I think a passage would work better as a waypoint than the signpost. Maybe a passage and the signpost would be better?

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
[ ] Dialog - Clear and interesting, especially when Dumbledor (Deflador) is attacked for the first time. However Konrad seems like a ditz.
[ ] Storyline - Good starting point

(5) What were your major challenges in completing the scenario?
[ ] None really. I almost lost Deflador, but that is just a matter of restarting. No higher level units to protect and all surviving units should be close to leveling up.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
[ ] Eh

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
[ ] None really. But I would have an introductory mission (in addition to the tutorial) or even a campaign (no bigger than 4 scenarios) to help first timers have a feel for the game.
Attachments
HttT-The_Elves_Besieged_replay.gz
(32.1 KiB) Downloaded 25 times
MrA4
 
Posts: 9
Joined: March 10th, 2017, 5:51 pm

Re: Scenario 1: The Elves Besieged

Postby lujo » September 16th, 2017, 8:17 am

(1) What difficulty level and Wesnoth version have you played the scenario on?

Highest 1.12.6

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

Completing the objective was not very difficult.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

I disliked the dialogue, as it's all very stereotypical.
Storyline is painfuly cliche

(5) What were your major challenges in completing the scenario?

Not randomly losing Delfador.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

1

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

I'd cut it. Really, it feels like it should have been a cutscene like the ones in the Dwarf campaign. It makes a terrible introduction for new players, it's got a "boring invincible NPC" who's also a direct ripoff of a "boring invincible NPC" from Harry Potter. It's got an overwhelming amount of enemies which makes even trying to get some XP out of it risky because the Dumbledore can randomly drop dead and lose it for you. That's on hard, on easy it's an XP farming fest which makes the dramatic writing feel even sillier. It has a huge number of enemy units doing random stuff around the map for ages while a player sits there twiddling their thumbs. Pushing a new player to look for "skip enemy moves" and "max speed" right away hurts their development significantly as they can't tell what going on, but sitting through all that is kind of unbearable. I could go on...

That level is godawful as the first thing a new or returning player is looking at. It's a cutscene, and it should have always been one, I guess.
lujo
 
Posts: 27
Joined: December 10th, 2014, 10:21 pm

Previous

Return to Heir to the Throne

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests