Eastern Invasion

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Circon
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Post by Circon »

You can of course add a scenario before this one, it's your campaign, and I remember so far back (where DOES the time go??) that I can recall "Isle of Anduin" being the first mission.

This was in the time when one had 3 units with terrible graphics, and the deserts looked like speckled gold...
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turin
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Post by turin »

just so everyone knows, the next scenario in the campaign is up for download (you will have to get the whole campaign though)
http://lsimmons.net/joe/loyalistcampaign3.tar.gz

or go to the wiki page and click on the link there if this does not work

no changes have been made to the first scenario yet, though.
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Loriel
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General Comments

Post by Loriel »

Based on loyalistcampaign2.tag.gz (I've later downloaded loyalistcampaign3.tag.gz but don't see any diferences)

Run on Wesnoth 0.7 on Linux on "easy" mode.

Enjoyable campaign so far, though I've only gone through the "western" branch as yet, not the "eastern" one.

Installation needs a bit of work I thnk -
look at directory structure in the orc campaign which appears to be easier to handle, in particular Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye.cfg which avoids the need to hack the main file data/game.cfg to get the scenario recognised (though changing it might give backwards-compatibility problems).
file permissions are root only - please run chmod a+r on all files so the campaign runs for non-root users.
I added the following to the campain specification to display suitable pictures with the difficulty settings:
difficulty_descriptions=&human-sergeant.png,Fighter,(easiest);*&human-lieutenant.png,Hero;&human-general.png,Champion,(hardest)

Typos
recieve should be receive in a couple of places, in data/intro2.cfg and in scenarios/The_Outpost.cfg

Balance
Generally fairly easy so far (at least on the "easy" setting).

Time pressure in "The Escpe Tunnel" is a possible problem - perhaps make it clearer in the dialog that you need to rush throuh, or give a few more turns in easy mode.

Elven Alliance seems too easy - by the end of the game, the orc leader was surrounded solidly by elven units, and I couldn't do anything (other than wait for them to kill him). Possibly I was being too cautious in my approach, due to fear of the orc assassin. I'd suggest increasing the number of orc units and/or reducing the number of elven units (presumably by adjusting their starting gold).
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turin
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Re: General Comments

Post by turin »

Loriel wrote:Based on loyalistcampaign2.tag.gz (I've later downloaded loyalistcampaign3.tag.gz but don't see any diferences)

Run on Wesnoth 0.7 on Linux on "easy" mode.

Enjoyable campaign so far, though I've only gone through the "western" branch as yet, not the "eastern" one.

Installation needs a bit of work I thnk -
look at directory structure in the orc campaign which appears to be easier to handle, in particular Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye.cfg which avoids the need to hack the main file data/game.cfg to get the scenario recognised (though changing it might give backwards-compatibility problems).
file permissions are root only - please run chmod a+r on all files so the campaign runs for non-root users.
I added the following to the campain specification to display suitable pictures with the difficulty settings:
difficulty_descriptions=&human-sergeant.png,Fighter,(easiest);*&human-lieutenant.png,Hero;&human-general.png,Champion,(hardest)

Typos
recieve should be receive in a couple of places, in data/intro2.cfg and in scenarios/The_Outpost.cfg

Balance
Generally fairly easy so far (at least on the "easy" setting).

Time pressure in "The Escpe Tunnel" is a possible problem - perhaps make it clearer in the dialog that you need to rush throuh, or give a few more turns in easy mode.

Elven Alliance seems too easy - by the end of the game, the orc leader was surrounded solidly by elven units, and I couldn't do anything (other than wait for them to kill him). Possibly I was being too cautious in my approach, due to fear of the orc assassin. I'd suggest increasing the number of orc units and/or reducing the number of elven units (presumably by adjusting their starting gold).
There ARE differences, mainly turns allowed have been lowered.

i know about changing the install method, i've just been to lazy to do it so far. i'll try to get it done later today.
however, i don't know much about makefiles, so can you please edit the makefile and send it to me with whatever i was supposed to change? i don't get what you mean.
i already have the changes you made so that it displays suitable images, it is just in a version you have not downloaded yet. :D

easy is supposed to be easy.
the time limit i thought was fairly obvious, but if it was not obvious to you I will probably change it.
The western branch is supposed to be easier, because it is supposed to be harder to get to it, but it still might be too easy.

updates will hopefully be made later today.
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And I hate stupid people.
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turin
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Post by turin »

go download the newest version!:)

changes-
images for campaign menu added
portraits (or were these added earlier?)
no strange hack to get it to work

http://lsimmons.net/joe/loyalistcampaign4.tar.gz

another update with scenario changes will be release soon, i hope.
For I am Turin Turambar - Master of Doom, by doom mastered. On permanent Wesbreak. Will not respond to private messages. Sorry!
And I hate stupid people.
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Loriel
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Post by Loriel »

Loriel wrote:


Based on loyalistcampaign2.tag.gz (I've later downloaded loyalistcampaign3.tag.gz but don't see any diferences)

Run on Wesnoth 0.7 on Linux on "easy" mode.

Enjoyable campaign so far, though I've only gone through the "western" branch as yet, not the "eastern" one.

Installation needs a bit of work I thnk -
look at directory structure in the orc campaign which appears to be easier to handle, in particular Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye.cfg which avoids the need to hack the main file data/game.cfg to get the scenario recognised (though changing it might give backwards-compatibility problems).
file permissions are root only - please run chmod a+r on all files so the campaign runs for non-root users.
I added the following to the campain specification to display suitable pictures with the difficulty settings:
difficulty_descriptions=&human-sergeant.png,Fighter,(easiest);*&human-lieutenant.png,Hero;&human-general.png,Champion,(hardest)

Typos
recieve should be receive in a couple of places, in data/intro2.cfg and in scenarios/The_Outpost.cfg

Balance
Generally fairly easy so far (at least on the "easy" setting).

Time pressure in "The Escpe Tunnel" is a possible problem - perhaps make it clearer in the dialog that you need to rush throuh, or give a few more turns in easy mode.

Elven Alliance seems too easy - by the end of the game, the orc leader was surrounded solidly by elven units, and I couldn't do anything (other than wait for them to kill him). Possibly I was being too cautious in my approach, due to fear of the orc assassin. I'd suggest increasing the number of orc units and/or reducing the number of elven units (presumably by adjusting their starting gold).


Turin replied:
There ARE differences, mainly turns allowed have been lowered.

i know about changing the install method, i've just been to lazy to do it so far. i'll try to get it done later today.
however, i don't know much about makefiles, so can you please edit the makefile and send it to me with whatever i was supposed to change? i don't get what you mean.
i already have the changes you made so that it displays suitable images, it is just in a version you have not downloaded yet.

easy is supposed to be easy.
the time limit i thought was fairly obvious, but if it was not obvious to you I will probably change it.
The western branch is supposed to be easier, because it is supposed to be harder to get to it, but it still might be too easy.

updates will hopefully be made later today.
Thanks for the prompt reply.

It appears that you have been running as root, and most of your files have permissions of -rw------, instead of the usual -rw-r--r-- (so anybody trying to run your campaign as a non-root user gets lots of "missing file" errors).
If you add the following line to the Makefile (immediately after install:) it should fix the problem -
chmod -R a+r *
{needs a tab at the beginning).

From the comment announcing the version 3 release I was expecting it to have an additional scenario, which didn't appear to be there - sorry I hadn't looked into the changes in more detail yet.

A quick glance at the new version 4 release shows you have already addressed some of the points I raised. Only problem I've seen so far is that you've got the campaign specification repeated in 2 files, with different names, so 2 different campaigns get listed (Eastern_Invasion.cfg looks like the correct one, as "The Eastern Invasion", but The_Outpost.cfg contains "Eastern Invasion", which should probably be deleted).

I should probably have added a disclaimer to my comments on balance - they are subjective, and others may have different views, based on their playing styles, expectations, or just plain luck.

My impression is that the orc campaign is rather harder than the main two, whist this campaign is rather easier, based on my experience so far. Even if this view is held by most players, it's not necessarily wrong - it might be useful to have campaigns of varying degrees of difficulty, with this as one of the easier ones. I am merely offering my viewpoint so you can add it to other feedback, in assessing whether the campaign (or parts of it) needsto be rebalanced.

I look forward to playing through the new version 4 shortly, to see how it has changed.
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turin
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Post by turin »

sorry. :oops: i thought i took out the thing that was causing doubel campaign.

I haven't been running root, but i locked my account on my computer, so that might be causing problems.

a new scenario SHOULD have been in the one before last, i'm not sure why there wasn't. it is called Two Paths- tell me if you can get to it.
the campaign, to me, seems easy on Easy, but it is definitely not easy on Hard. I consider myself a pretty good player, i have won the konrad campaign on medium, but so far it is really hard to get past the first scenario on hard. on medium it seems balanced, at least to me.

you might not be able to download it for a while, my dad his his computer really messed up and it doesn't seem to be connected to the internet.
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Loriel
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Post by Loriel »

Two_Paths is now included in version 4, but doesn't appear to be linked in - I assume it should follow Northern Outpost ?

I noticed that the death of Dacyn isn't included in the objectives (defeat) in some scenarios (The Outpost, Escape Tunnel and Sudden Appearance), though the code in deaths2.cfg ensures that it does lose the scenario.

I'm currently finding that crossing the river to the east is a nuisance in Sudden Appearance, making the western exit easier for me.
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turin
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Post by turin »

Loriel wrote:Two_Paths is now included in version 4, but doesn't appear to be linked in - I assume it should follow Northern Outpost ?

I noticed that the death of Dacyn isn't included in the objectives (defeat) in some scenarios (The Outpost, Escape Tunnel and Sudden Appearance), though the code in deaths2.cfg ensures that it does lose the scenario.

I'm currently finding that crossing the river to the east is a nuisance in Sudden Appearance, making the western exit easier for me.
i'm having some wierd problems with editing northern outpost, i'll try to get it fixed ASAP.

recently i went through and added that as a defeat condition, but for some reason it doesn't always seem to change te file when i edit it. grrrr....

i have found that crossing the river is much easier than going across the mountains, but i changed the map recently and i haven't tested it since then. right now it seems to be about equal difficulty both ways. crossing a river is about as much a nuisance as crossing mountains, i actually think it is easier.
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And I hate stupid people.
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Loriel
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Missing leaders/allies

Post by Loriel »

Owaec is missing from the new scenario, Two Paths. I assume this is part of the editing/saving problem in Northern Outpost which you mentioned in the previous post.

I don't know what you have planned for him in later scenarios, but it seems a little odd that he's only level 1. Of course, if you made him level 2 (shock trooper), he'd have no further advances available.

Dacyn seems to be absent from Mal-Ravanal's Capital. - looks like his recall is missing.
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turin
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Post by turin »

I would happily make Owaec level 2 IF there was an upgrade for him. there is a reason he is a heavy infantry, though. i dislike it in the konrad campaign where there are so many special units, such as Elvish Lord and Elder Mage. I wanted to have all of the heroes be real units (except that i wanted the main hero to start out first level, so i created another unit)


the bug you mentioned?
fixed! :D

(i hope)

http://lsimmons.net/joe/loyalistcampaign4.tar.gz
For I am Turin Turambar - Master of Doom, by doom mastered. On permanent Wesbreak. Will not respond to private messages. Sorry!
And I hate stupid people.
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Loriel
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Post by Loriel »

Turin wrote :
I would happily make Owaec level 2 IF there was an upgrade for him. there is a reason he is a heavy infantry, though. i dislike it in the konrad campaign where there are so many special units, such as Elvish Lord and Elder Mage. I wanted to have all of the heroes be real units (except that i wanted the main hero to start out first level, so i created another unit)
Yes, it seemed very different to the approach in the Konrad campaign. However, after thinking it through a bit further I agree with your approach - as a heavy infantry unit Owaec won't need to be shielded from the enemy in the same way that a mage would, so should be relatively easy to advance in later scenarios.
the bug you mentioned?
fixed!

(i hope)
Good - the permissions look OK this time, and the amended Makefile should fix them if they go wrong again.

Another balance issue for your consideration:
I noticed that the "bonus" units gained in Mal-Ravanal's Capital are "free upkeep", and retain that property into subsequent scenarios.
This might be over-generous.
I found that I could station a couple of white mages just outside the castle of Ravanal-Guard, and pick off the "advanced skeletons" as soon as they were recruited. This provides a source of "safe" xp (due to the AI's limitations, not attacking those wimpy mages just outside), plus powerful units that are free to recruit in this scenario, and free to maintain in this and subsequent ones.

Another minor bug - the position of the battle of Mal-Ravanal's Capital seems to be too far west and south on the map displayed before the scenario starts.
turin-at-school

Post by turin-at-school »

Mal-Ravanal's capital has no playtesting at all, so any advice on it is welcome. i know that you can get too many free units, probably i will just make the enemy get free people when this happens, in addition to you getting more.

to tell the truth, i did not change the positions of the dots on the big map at all. that is not even the map i am planning to use, mine has much more to the east of Wesnoth and less to the west. however, i have never gotten around to actually making the map (i have the black and white version, but i can't get the texture to look right)
blackjack
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Post by blackjack »

There may be a slight bug in the "The Undead Border Patrol" scenario.

After killing the lich, you are given the option of turning back to kill Mal-Skraat. If you choose to do so, but fail to defeat him within 18 turns, the final screen (the one with the gold bonus) treats the number of turns left as -1 so you actually lose 33 gold when that happens.

But interesting campaign.

I assume everything funnels back to the Northern Path?
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turin
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Post by turin »

blackjack wrote:There may be a slight bug in the "The Undead Border Patrol" scenario.

After killing the lich, you are given the option of turning back to kill Mal-Skraat. If you choose to do so, but fail to defeat him within 18 turns, the final screen (the one with the gold bonus) treats the number of turns left as -1 so you actually lose 33 gold when that happens.

But interesting campaign.

I assume everything funnels back to the Northern Path?
I have no idea what this bug is, i assume it has something to do with the programming, not my scenario file.

yes, everything eventually goes to Northern Outpost, there are four ways of getting there.

1. go to the elven alliance scenario
2. go to the UBP scenario, then kill Mal-Skraat
3. " " " " " , then kill the lich, then kill Mal-Skraat
4. " " " " " , kill the lich, then don't kill Mal-Skraat, get to the side quest.
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And I hate stupid people.
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