[1.9.x/1.10.x] Legend of Wesmere

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Legend of Wesmere

Post by gfgtdf » December 1st, 2015, 4:10 pm

I recently playtested LoW in mp (on normal difficulcy) with wesnoth 1.13+dev.

Frist there are of course some like side number beeing
wrong leading to gold/units given to wrong sides or similar.
I tried to fix those issues while playing it.

Another issue is the carryover gold, in most scenarios (even after i changed it so that the early finishing gold is devided by the player number) i eigher get (much) more carryover gold than i actually need or none at all. (Although i have to admit that is din't play any 'normal' campaigns recently this is how most other campaigns are??)

I personally think that playing this campaigns in MP is rather complicted:
1) The number of players change during the campaign making game setup more complicated.
2) Leadership doesn't work on allied units so unlike in sp it is for example impossible for woses controlled by player3 to take advantage of leadership effects.
3) Coordinating the units is of course harder than in sp, the units are on different sides and units form side 1 must move before units from side 2, making move combiations impossible that would be otherwise be good in sp, this is specially true if healers are involved (becasue the units are healed on start of side 3 turn).
4) This campaign turns a sp campaign into a mp campaign, by splitting the units of side 1 into multiple sides, this often results in sides controlling only very few units. Specially in later scenarios when there are 4 human sides you can (if you don't have carryover gold) often only recruit/recall 2 or 3 units per side at the beginning, making the gameplay different from other campaigns. On the the other hand the strength of the enemy stays the same in sp and mp. This may not be always bad but it's unexpected for someone who previously other campaigns with a more units.
Scenario with Robots SP scenario (1.11/1.12), allows you to build your units with components, PYR No preperation turn 1.12 mp-mod that allows you to select your units immideately after the game begins.

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Xara
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Re: [1.9.x/1.10.x] Legend of Wesmere

Post by Xara » December 1st, 2015, 11:39 pm

Is it possible to make the mp campaign stay 2p?
It pronounces Sha'ha, not Zara.

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Re: [1.9.x/1.10.x] Legend of Wesmere

Post by gfgtdf » December 2nd, 2015, 12:37 am

So what would you suggest how to do this?
Scenario with Robots SP scenario (1.11/1.12), allows you to build your units with components, PYR No preperation turn 1.12 mp-mod that allows you to select your units immideately after the game begins.

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Re: [1.9.x/1.10.x] Legend of Wesmere

Post by Xara » December 2nd, 2015, 5:17 am

Cleodil go to Landar's side, and Olurf go to Kalenz's?
It pronounces Sha'ha, not Zara.

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Re: [1.9.x/1.10.x] Legend of Wesmere

Post by gfgtdf » December 2nd, 2015, 3:19 pm

We could thretically do that, but know that this then also means the Kalenz player can recruit Dwarves while Landar can recruit healers/woses.
This would also means the in scenarios 4-7 Player1 a controls 2 heros and hand more options than player 2 who only controls one hero.

Also this wouldn't really make sense storywise in scenario ~22 where Landar fights against Kalenz.
Scenario with Robots SP scenario (1.11/1.12), allows you to build your units with components, PYR No preperation turn 1.12 mp-mod that allows you to select your units immideately after the game begins.

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Re: [1.9.x/1.10.x] Legend of Wesmere

Post by Gyra_Solune » January 22nd, 2016, 9:19 pm

So I've noticed that in 1.13, the Great Ogre seems to have been added into this campaign. But...for some reason it only seems to have 76 HP - yes that's high-ish, but...it seems really, really meager considering the level two has 68 HP, and the entire line's defining feature is having a ton of HP. The level 1 Ogre is only matched by the likes of the Drake Clasher and Burner, the Dwarvish Guardsman and the Troll Whelp, and only surpassed by the Wose and Orcish Leader, all units that are very expensive and often suffer great weaknesses. The level 2 surpasses all of them absolutely as the highest HP level 2 in the game. But 76 HP falls behind a lot of level 3 units - literally every Drake except Hurricane and Flameheart, the Dwarvish Lord, the Grand Knight, the Orcish Warlord, and the Ancient Wose again.

A gain of 8 HP is very little in general for any unit whatsoever - almost every promotion gives more than that, excepting a handful of squishy ranged units, or situations like the Merman Warrior only getting 2 HP but also gaining steadfast if it goes Hoplite. For the Great Ogre this especially is low for a unit that has no other notable characteristics other than the capacity to sit there and take a lot of damage. I think it should be bumped up a bit - somewhere in the realm of 86-88, if not around the 90 mark strikes me as a lot more appropriate. Maybe it's meant to offset how the melee damage goes from 5-3 to 15-3 across the levels, and getting three times as powerful at level 3 is a particularly high multiplier given most units only get about twice as strong, but that's not really so high a jump given that it's still fairly weak on the whole at all three levels.

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Re: [1.9.x/1.10.x] Legend of Wesmere

Post by gfgtdf » January 23rd, 2016, 5:19 pm

Hmm i didnt notice great orge in any of the scenarios, you know in which scenario this happened?
Scenario with Robots SP scenario (1.11/1.12), allows you to build your units with components, PYR No preperation turn 1.12 mp-mod that allows you to select your units immideately after the game begins.

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Re: [1.9.x/1.10.x] Legend of Wesmere

Post by Gyra_Solune » January 23rd, 2016, 9:34 pm

...huh. For some reason despite there very clearly being a Great Ogre implemented in the 1.13 files for the scenario, there do not seem to be ogres whatsoever in it - the only reference I find is in scenario 7, where on line 3 it says "#TODO Add the ogre cage idea." And that seems to be it! Weird.

The point still stands though! If it's going to be a mainline level 3 ogre then I think its HP should be bumped up to be a little appreciably more than its level 2.

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Re: [1.9.x/1.10.x] Legend of Wesmere

Post by Elvish_Hunter » January 25th, 2016, 9:38 pm

Gyra_Solune wrote:If it's going to be a mainline level 3 ogre then I think its HP should be bumped up to be a little appreciably more than its level 2.
There's a bit of history behind this unit.
A few years ago, I noticed it in the add-on "Into the Underworld". I though that it could have been useful, so I added it to The Sojournings of Grog (and that explains some of the comments that you can find in it :P ).
Some time later, fabi (when he still was a part of the Wesnoth project, and was maintaining LoW) added it in LoW too. It was meant to be a campaign specific unit, but I don't know anything else about this plan.
That said, I suppose that the unit can be removed, especially considering that in LoW there are no Ogres whatsoever. As for the unit in TSoG... I think that I can raise its HP just as you suggested ;)
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1.12: Children of Dragons, Wesnoth Lua Pack
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Re: [1.9.x/1.10.x] Legend of Wesmere

Post by Gyra_Solune » January 26th, 2016, 10:32 am

Ohh, I see I see. So there was intent to add them in but it never got pushed forward, interesting. It is a really nice-looking unit though! Strikes me as being a bit more 'healthy' than the sort of malformed and slightly mottled previous versions which would explain why it's gotten so much more powerful. It'd be great if it ends up in mainline even if perhaps campaign units don't have the best track record when it comes to being later actually put into the central game - hoping some of the really nice looking ones like the Skeleton Rider end up making it in.

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Re: [1.9.x/1.10.x] Legend of Wesmere

Post by GoatGoat » August 12th, 2016, 2:18 am

Shouldn't the deaths.cfg entry for loyal units filter out your essential/leader characters? For example, if Cleodil dies, then she and Kalenz have their special death dialogue exchange, and then the one for non-essential loyals right after it. Even more ridiculous is if Kalenz dies, he starts talking to himself before your get a game over.

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Re: [1.9.x/1.10.x] Legend of Wesmere

Post by tr0ll » August 29th, 2016, 2:30 am

1) is the title of this topic eventually going to include 1.13.x ? i wasnt sure where to post campaign bugs or if i should edit the subject line.

2) there is a strange unfinished story screen that appears right after completion of Battle of the Book in 1.13.5. i attached the savegame below. you have to "End Scenario" to see the next screen.

i am unable to get a screenshot because the game screenshot key doesnt work in story screens and wesnoth segfaults without a core when i press my system printscreen key.
Attachments
LoW-Battle_of_the_Book_Turn_10_done.gz
weird screen appears after ending scenario
(62.13 KiB) Downloaded 109 times

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