The South Guard

[aelius]

Aelius
I restarted "Retaking Westin" with the new 0.4 version, but game crashed on turn 2 (Ai turn), stderr says :

Is this a scenario bug, or maybe do I have to restart the campaign ?

Can you send me the saved game or post it here? I'll take a look. I've also attached a saved game at the start of Retaking Westin. Lemme know if it works.

- b.

[PDF]

Aelius
I restarted "Retaking Westin" with the new 0.4 version, but game crashed on turn 2 (Ai turn), stderr says :

Is this a scenario bug, or maybe do I have to restart the campaign ?

Can you send me the saved game or post it here? I'll take a look. I've also attached a saved game at the start of Retaking Westin. Lemme know if it works.

- b.

Well, you did'nt attach anything ...
Here's my save, it's a "scenario start" save.

Edit : uh, it looks like attachments don't work - send me a mail (address in profile) so I can send it to you.

[scott]

To use attachments: click on the "add attachment" button on attachment control panel. A new window shows up that lets you choose a file, add comments, and attach the file. The BB only accepts certain file formats, such as .zip (recommended)

This post will self destruct as soon as you are successful

[aelius]

New version (0.4.1) uploaded to the campaign server. Lots of small changes and updates.

Thanks to PDF and scott for much good advice that is making it's way into the campaign. I'm really learning a lot from you all!

New playable scenario, "Rearguard", with a twist - there's no way to win or lose!

- b.

[silvermane]

aelius:

You've declared suprise that I have progressed in the campaign so far. Well, it seemed pretty easy to me after a few tries, at least at the lowest difficulty level.

Here are some remarks about the scenarios I've played:

The Kerlath Border

Seems straightforward once you learn what initial moves to make (getting Gerrick, troops and mermen). The opposition was weak after the first wave. I think that more villages deep in the forest would bolster the bandit leader. After you defeat his initial assault he will not harass you much as you progress into the forest. The boss himself is not really tough, except that he has a ranged attack. Actually a good introductory scenario. I'd scrap the peasants maybe or make them the staple of your army before you can get spearmen and bowmen (which should be pretty difficult to get). Peasants have no actual role except perhaps taking and guarding remote villages. The enemy in this scenario doesn't have particularly swift troops so you can leave the villages north of the river undefended.

Retaking Westin

This gave me a lot of grief in early versions of the campaign, but was rather easy now. I was able to start with two level 2 units, including a longbowman, which makes killing thugs pretty fast and safe. Also you get a white mage from one of the villages, and while his ability to fight the enemy is limited he can spare your troops from taking the NW villages. Mermen rule in the river that separates Westin from the bandit keep and you should train them fully.

Finding the Elves

I won by recalling 8-10 units, including a peasant I used as bait for enemy forces that tried to occupy one of the villages (he stopped them heroically for a whole three rounds). When I got to the citadel I had two dragoons, a royal guard (Gerrick) plus assorted pikemen and swordsmen versus three footpads. I might have won sooner if I were not overprotective of Daeron. I also tried a strategy with killing the bandit leader with mermen etc. but this is actually counterproductive because he recruits too fast. Even when I sent my whole army north he did not commit all the forces to stopping me but tried to take villages, largely ignoring the main objective of the scenario (hold the citadel). Perhaps you should lose if the outlaws got there first?

Near Lake Kerumbar

First I recruited some cavalry and went to wipe out the eastern dark adept. He was a weakling and his summoned skeletons actually gave me more trouble. Then I sneaked the elven druid around the lake and had an uneasy stalemate with the green troops, but did not lose a single unit (sacrificing a unit may actually be productive, though, because you get 1-3 elven archers, which you can't recruit otherwise).

Choice in the Fog (started with 574 gold!)

Didn't play it much so far, but it seems that your best strategy is to find the bandit leader as quickly as possible and forge an alliance. Don't recruit any elven troops because they will disappear (?) This should be implied in the scenario dialogue IMO.

[aelius]

Well, it seemed pretty easy to me after a few tries, at least at the lowest difficulty level.

That's what I'm aiming for - I want the campaign to be a good introduction to the game that adds in new things gradually.

Even when I sent my whole army north he did not commit all the forces to stopping me but tried to take villages, largely ignoring the main objective of the scenario (hold the citadel). Perhaps you should lose if the outlaws got there first?

I'm not sure the bandit wants to protect the citadel (do they even know what it is?) I think their main objective is to kill Deoran to avenge the death of the leader's two brothers. I'll put some code in that makes them go after Deoran bigtime after a couple of turns. Good idea! Thanks!

Choice in the Fog (started with 574 gold!)

Didn't play it much so far, but it seems that your best strategy is to find the bandit leader as quickly as possible and forge an alliance. Don't recruit any elven troops because they will disappear (?) This should be implied in the scenario dialogue IMO.

You'll see whether or not this is the best strategy when you finish the scenario and move on to the next one. That's the choice in the campaign that has consequences. I wanted it to be a surprise when the elves abandon you to your fate, but hoped that the addition of the bandit troops (and the ability to recruit thugs and footpads) would compensate.

- b.

[ott]

The Kerlath Border

[...] The opposition was weak after the first wave. I think that more villages deep in the forest would bolster the bandit leader.

Agreed; this scenario is currently too easy on Hard. Extra villages in the forest would give some income to the bandit to continue recruiting, and also make that part of the map less redundant.

I managed to get Sir Gerrick killed and this didn't trigger a loss (in fact I carried on playing the next two scenarios without him). Probably needs to be fixed!

Finding the Elves

[...] (hold the citadel). Perhaps you should lose if the outlaws got there first?

This would be a problem; in the game I played the outlaws swarmed all over the citadel well before I had a chance to get there, on their way to the NW villages.

[Elvish_Pillager]

I managed to get Sir Gerrick killed and this didn't trigger a loss (in fact I carried on playing the next two scenarios without him). Probably needs to be fixed!

I thought it just wasn't neccessary to keep him alive... if I was wrong, this really needs to be fixed!

[ott]

I managed to get Sir Gerrick killed and this didn't trigger a loss (in fact I carried on playing the next two scenarios without him). Probably needs to be fixed!

I thought it just wasn't neccessary to keep him alive... if I was wrong, this really needs to be fixed!

Looking at the scenario files, Gerrick is pretty crucial, since The Messenger requires him to be moved to a signpost.

I think the problem is that the first scenario doesn't have keeping Gerrick alive as a stated objective, nor is this implemented as an event in any of the scenarios. Comparing with how HttT uses the deaths.cfg file, it looks like there should be code like

Code: Select all

{@campaigns/The_South_Guard/scenarios/sg-deaths.cfg}

in each scenario file, not in the main campaign .cfg file.

[aelius]

I thought it just wasn't neccessary to keep him alive... if I was wrong, this really needs to be fixed!

…nor is this implemented as an event in any of the scenarios. Comparing with how HttT uses the deaths.cfg file, it looks like there should be code like

Code: Select all

{@campaigns/The_South_Guard/scenarios/sg-deaths.cfg}

in each scenario file, not in the main campaign .cfg file.

That's what I get for trying to be clever and condense my code. I've put the deaths file back into the individual scenarios.

I'd love to be able to add keeping Sir Gerrick alive to the objectives screen in the middle of the scenario (would it be confusing if keeping him alive was an objective before he appeared in the scenario?)

- b.

[quartex]

I'd love to be able to add keeping Sir Gerrick alive to the objectives screen in the middle of the scenario (would it be confusing if keeping him alive was an objective before he appeared in the scenario?)

- b.

I'd love to be able to change objective mid-scenario as well, but I don't think it's possible. Instead you could just have the Narrator announce in a load voice that there's a new scenario objective and hope the player remembers.

[scott]

I don't think there's a problem with a campaign being too easy at the hard level if its goal is to be a beginner campaign. Keeping in line with the proposed difficulty scheme, you may want to rename the difficulty levels accordingly.

If "hard" is easy, then you could use "tutorial", "very easy", and "easy"
If not, then "very easy", "easy", "normal"
or whatever you like.

[silvermane]

I wanted it to be a surprise when the elves abandon you to your fate

It was for me. Perhaps a warning from the druid before you make your choice? Or something that implies the consequences in the way the choice is phrased?

silvermane

[ott]

I'd love to be able to change objective mid-scenario as well, but I don't think it's possible. Instead you could just have the Narrator announce in a load voice that there's a new scenario objective and hope the player remembers.

This was done in scenario Confrontation, from mainline campaign The Dark Hordes. Sounds like at least three campaign authors would find it useful.

Examining the other mainline campaigns, I did see the following in tutorial/Basic_Training.cfg:

Code: Select all

{SET_OBJECTIVE (_"Recruit a unit")}

where SET_OBJECTIVE is defined in tutorial/utils.cfg as:

Code: Select all

#define SET_OBJECTIVE OBJECTIVE
[objectives]
message= _ "@Skills covered:
Recruiting units
Moving units
Attacking enemy units
Gaining experience
Winning scenarios
@Current objective:
{OBJECTIVE}"
[/objectives]
#enddef

but this doesn't seem to affect the output of selecting "Scenario objectives".

[aelius]

I don't think there's a problem with a campaign being too easy at the hard level if its goal is to be a beginner campaign. If "hard" is easy, then you could use "tutorial", "very easy", and "easy" If not, then "very easy", "easy", "normal" or whatever you like.

I think what I'm going to aim for in the end is "walk in the park, walk in the woods, walk in the swamp" or something like that.

Right now I think the campaign is a bit too hard on all levels, and I'd like the hardest level of South Guard to be about as hard as HttT on easy. I'm working on the maps and WML for the last two scenarios now, but school is making it hard to find time. My plan is to finish them, and then spend a lot of time balancing the difficulty levels after the plot and maps are all worked out...

- b.