[Historical] [1.7.x/1.8.x] Legend of Wesmere

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Bob_The_Mighty
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Re: [1.7.x/1.8.x] Legend of Wesmere

Post by Bob_The_Mighty » October 26th, 2010, 12:53 am

This is a fun campaign so far, but we got quite confused on scenario 3 when the scenario objectives told us that we'd lose if Galdrit died. There was nobody by that name on the map. Our leaders retained the names Landar and Kalenz.

We played it on 1.8x and reloaded from a save at the start of scenario 2.

It is frustrating watching the ai being very silly and rushing into the water to die, but the concept of the scenario is an interesting one.
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Re: [1.7.x/1.8.x] Legend of Wesmere

Post by fabi » October 26th, 2010, 5:02 pm

Bob_The_Mighty wrote:This is a fun campaign so far, but we got quite confused on scenario 3 when the scenario objectives told us that we'd lose if Galdrit died. There was nobody by that name on the map. Our leaders retained the names Landar and Kalenz.

We played it on 1.8x and reloaded from a save at the start of scenario 2.

It is frustrating watching the ai being very silly and rushing into the water to die, but the concept of the scenario is an interesting one.
Hello Bob, current trunk is fixed regarding Galtrid vs Kalenz and Landar vs El'Isomithir.
The AI still needs to be tuned somehow, I hope we get it right before 1.10.
Scenario design was done by Crab.

There won't be another 1.8 version afaik, so no back-port planed.

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Maiklas3000
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Re: [1.7.x/1.8.x] Legend of Wesmere

Post by Maiklas3000 » December 16th, 2010, 2:36 pm

Playing the campaign "The Rise of Wesnoth" under 1.9, the AI seems so much better than for the campaign "Legend of Wesmere" under 1.8. I can't find anything in the changelog about the overall playing of the AI being improved. So that leaves the parameters. I am particularly impressed by the AI's behavior on hard in TRoW 3: A Harrowing Escape, which uses...

Code: Select all

        [ai]
            time_of_day=first_watch,second_watch
            aggression=0.75
            caution=0.15
            grouping=no
        [/ai]
(Defaults are aggression=0.5 and caution=0.25, and it defaults to those when not nighttime.)

What I like about the AI in that scenario is that it does not easily fall for bait, units often slink off to heal themselves, the AI aggressively and effectively tries to flank with Wolf Riders, and at daytime, if it's facing a solid line of healthy forces, the AI will move some units back and/or sideways without attacking.

Now here are the settings for LoW 17: Breaking the Siege...

Code: Select all

        [ai]
            time_of_day=dusk,first_watch,second_watch
            aggression=0.75
            caution=0.0
            grouping=no
            attack_depth=5
        [/ai]
attack_depth=5 is the default, so the only differences are caution=0.0 and adding dusk as a more aggressive time. I think this caution=0.0 setting is something that I don't like about the AI in Legend of Wesmere. It makes it do suicidal attacks. Not every Legend of Wesmere scenario uses those settings, but many do. I have to believe behavior would be improved by giving caution even just a little weight. If you don't want to go to 0.15, then maybe 0.05.

About the issue of whether the AI should be more aggressive at dusk, it's not a big deal, but I was just thinking the other day that if you have mostly level 1 chaotic units, you probably should save your strength a bit at dusk, to make sure you don't have to slink off to heal at second watch (or worse, self destruct before then.) Probably an intermediate setting would work best, something like aggression=0.6, caution=0.2.

The setting of the allied AI's in Legend of Wesmere is another issue. I guess it usually uses testing_ai_default and no parameters? One scenario which has gotten some compliments on the allied AI leaders is SotBE 12: Giving Some Back. It just seems to use default AI and settings along with a facing. But I'm only a beginner at WML.

Since the settings have not been changed in the Legend of Wesmere campaigns between 1.8 and 1.9, I think my comments would also apply to Legend of Wesmere under 1.9.

If in fact the AI has been improved in general for 1.9, then "never mind."

While I'm here, let me say that you should probably use recruit_ignore_bad_combat=yes and recruit_ignore_bad_movement=yes to make sure it recruits everything in the list. It's been a few months since I played Legend of Wesmere, so I don't remember for sure, but, I think it doesn't recruit everything in the lists given in the WML.

Chep
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Re: [1.7.x/1.8.x] Legend of Wesmere

Post by Chep » January 8th, 2011, 10:29 pm

hi,

sorry, I don't know whether this is a bug or a feature, but:

as of the 3rd Map (where the Kalian gets attacked by the orcish assassins) I can only recruit Archers and Warriors - no shamans, no scouts.
The walkthrough talks about these and I remember them from previous attempts, did they get removed until some level?

Playing Wesnoth 1.9.2 (hard)

Thanks

Chep

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bigkahuna
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Re: [1.7.x/1.8.x] Legend of Wesmere

Post by bigkahuna » January 8th, 2011, 10:41 pm

Chep wrote:did they get removed until some level?
Yes. See .cfg file:
03_Kalian.cfg wrote: recruit=Elvish Fighter, Elvish Archer
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hs1
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Re: [1.7.x/1.8.x] Legend of Wesmere

Post by hs1 » February 6th, 2011, 9:22 pm

bigkahuna wrote:
Chep wrote:did they get removed until some level?
Yes. See .cfg file:
03_Kalian.cfg wrote: recruit=Elvish Fighter, Elvish Archer
Was that change made intentionally? Fighting the trolls on map 2 without shamans is really frustrating :-/

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Re: [1.7.x/1.8.x] Legend of Wesmere

Post by Insinuator » March 23rd, 2011, 6:45 am

First off, I'd like to say that I appreciate the effort someone took to make LoW into a multiplayer campaign. Compared to several other MP campaigns, it is excellent. However, the severity and frequency of a few bugs are making it impossible for me to play.

For the 1.8.5 version, I started a hotseat game. Just yesterday we played through until the third scenario, about the attack on the Ka'lian. Everything went fine until Kalenz and Landar appeared as reinforcements and you are given control of them. But as soon as we tried to recall units, we found that the recall list was the same as it was for the scenario before! All the units we had leveled in the second scenario were gone and replaced with level 1s. Additionally, neither Kalenz nor Landar retained their XP. Obviously, this made the level much harder and though we eventually fought back the hordes of Orcs, it was just a few turns late. We replayed it twice with similar results.

There is another bug but it is for the 1.9.4 version which I'll post in the proper thread.

nhmerc
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Re: [1.7.x/1.8.x] Legend of Wesmere

Post by nhmerc » May 22nd, 2011, 8:05 pm

Good Afternoon,

I think I might have discovered an interesting bug in level 3 (Ka'lian Under Attack) for the multi-player campaign while playing in the 1.8.5 release. After we made it the 9 turns, Kalenz and Landar failed to show up. Even their dialogue failed to be part of the conversation in the "cut scene." The only explanation I can think of for this was that a single black wolf unit seemed to be standing on Kalenz' keep at the appointed time for him to show up, preventing him (and strangely also Landar) from materializing. For the rest of the scenario, we were treated to the forces that were previously under our control doing stupid AI things and generally getting absolutely murdered by the full force of the orcs. I have included the savegame so you can see it happen (assuming you can replay based on that).

I use windows XP 32 bit and no error message showed up (of course I wouldn't really expect one).

-NHmerc
Attachments
Ka'lian_under_attack_Turn_13.gz
Savegame where bug occurs after turn 9.
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