[Historical] [1.7.x/1.8.x] Legend of Wesmere

This is the place for discussing development of mainline campaigns, reporting bugs in them and providing overall feedback.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Locked
Anonymissimus
Inactive Developer
Posts: 2460
Joined: August 15th, 2008, 8:46 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Legend of Wesmere-Elvish(Kalenz) Campaign

Post by Anonymissimus » October 14th, 2009, 12:01 am

-23_End_of_War.cfg: Remove
[kill]
id=Landar
[/kill]
in Landar's last breath event. The death animation isn't played and there's no dialog following anyway.

-character Uradredia:
He appears in several scenarios, but also in 21_Elven_Council.cfg in HttT. There's no explanation why he lives more than ~500 years like Kalenz, despite the elves' life expectancy being 250-300 years in wesnoth.

-19_Costly_Revenge.cfg: I doubt that it serves its purpose. (Loosing the units you'll lose anyway by betrayal in a battle instead.) The map is easier with snow than without it, because the saurians are a lot more hampered by the icy terrain than the elves (movement_costs 4, 1 hex per turn), making their skirmishing practically useless since they can't move through the lines anyway. This was easy difficulty, but if that map shall be hard, replace forest and/or flat by swamp. dialog: "After the orcs' defeat, the saurians feared that the elves may take revenge and flooded their homeland. Fortified with swamp it granted them good defense and movement, the opposite for elves."

/edit
In the epilog, it is said that the remaining elves of Landar's faction are banned to the "Silent forest". This is probably meant to be the same forest like in THoT, to give an explanation for the fight dwarves vs elves there. In the German translation of THoT, that scenario is called "Im finsteren Forst" which is somewhat wrong imo. No German player would associate it with Landar's faction without knowing the English name. So, change that to "Der stille Wald", too, as in LoW's translation.
projects (BfW 1.12):
A Simple Campaign: campaign draft for wml startersPlan Your Advancements: mp mod
The Earth's Gut: sp campaignSettlers of Wesnoth: mp scenarioWesnoth Lua Pack: lua tags and utils
updated to 1.8 and handed over: A Gryphon's Tale: sp campaign

PeteVine
Posts: 13
Joined: October 11th, 2009, 8:18 am

Re: Legend of Wesmere-Elvish(Kalenz) Campaign

Post by PeteVine » October 19th, 2009, 1:26 pm

Hi,

I've been playing LOW in BfW 1.7.6 and encountered the following problems in the Bounty Hunters/Cliffs of Thoria combo. In the first scenario, even though we're told some characters, among others Cleodil and Landar, were left behind, defeat conditions include deaths of both Cleodil and Landar (who are not present). Now, after crossing the river without them they're suddenly back in the following scenario and Landar is back to lvl1 !!! What is the intended story line here?

Thanks

Anonymissimus
Inactive Developer
Posts: 2460
Joined: August 15th, 2008, 8:46 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Legend of Wesmere-Elvish(Kalenz) Campaign

Post by Anonymissimus » October 19th, 2009, 2:07 pm

That's a bug not story. Landar and Cleodil are supposed to be there in all of those scenarios and to not change their levels. Maybe attach a start-of-scenario save for Bounty Hunters.
projects (BfW 1.12):
A Simple Campaign: campaign draft for wml startersPlan Your Advancements: mp mod
The Earth's Gut: sp campaignSettlers of Wesnoth: mp scenarioWesnoth Lua Pack: lua tags and utils
updated to 1.8 and handed over: A Gryphon's Tale: sp campaign

User avatar
santi
Lord of Wesmere
Posts: 1320
Joined: April 6th, 2004, 12:32 pm

Re: Legend of Wesmere-Elvish(Kalenz) Campaign

Post by santi » October 19th, 2009, 4:12 pm

Anonymisimous, the original intent for silent forest was explaining the elves in SOTBE, not THoT, which was not made at the time. The term "Silent forest" is copied verbatim from SOTBE.

Anonymissimus
Inactive Developer
Posts: 2460
Joined: August 15th, 2008, 8:46 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Legend of Wesmere-Elvish(Kalenz) Campaign

Post by Anonymissimus » October 19th, 2009, 4:49 pm

Ah, you're right.
The scenario in THoT is called "Forbidden Forest", not "Silent forest". But wouldn't it make sense to bind it the way I thought it should be ? In SotBE it is a fight orcs vs elves, they're natural enemies anyway.
projects (BfW 1.12):
A Simple Campaign: campaign draft for wml startersPlan Your Advancements: mp mod
The Earth's Gut: sp campaignSettlers of Wesnoth: mp scenarioWesnoth Lua Pack: lua tags and utils
updated to 1.8 and handed over: A Gryphon's Tale: sp campaign

PeteVine
Posts: 13
Joined: October 11th, 2009, 8:18 am

Re: Legend of Wesmere-Elvish(Kalenz) Campaign

Post by PeteVine » October 19th, 2009, 9:51 pm

Sure it's a bug. What I meant is: are they supposed to be there all the time or not? Attaching the save.
Attachments
LOW-Bounty_Hunters.gz
(24.47 KiB) Downloaded 224 times

Anonymissimus
Inactive Developer
Posts: 2460
Joined: August 15th, 2008, 8:46 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Legend of Wesmere-Elvish(Kalenz) Campaign

Post by Anonymissimus » October 20th, 2009, 1:17 pm

PeteVine wrote:are they supposed to be there all the time or not?
IIRC Cleodil is there in every scenario since when she appears first in Elvish Treasury and Landar misses only in Elvish Assassins.
projects (BfW 1.12):
A Simple Campaign: campaign draft for wml startersPlan Your Advancements: mp mod
The Earth's Gut: sp campaignSettlers of Wesnoth: mp scenarioWesnoth Lua Pack: lua tags and utils
updated to 1.8 and handed over: A Gryphon's Tale: sp campaign

PeteVine
Posts: 13
Joined: October 11th, 2009, 8:18 am

Re: Legend of Wesmere-Elvish(Kalenz) Campaign

Post by PeteVine » October 21st, 2009, 2:47 am

Still, could it be a case of some redesigning work gone wrong? In the beginning of this scenario you get what looks like a fully intentional message:
"Before Kalenz left the Ka'lian he had ordered Landar, Huraldur, Cleodil (...) to stay and guard it. Kalenz is from now on able to recruit Dwarves".

Anonymissimus
Inactive Developer
Posts: 2460
Joined: August 15th, 2008, 8:46 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Legend of Wesmere-Elvish(Kalenz) Campaign

Post by Anonymissimus » October 21st, 2009, 1:59 pm

PeteVine wrote:Still, could it be a case of some redesigning work gone wrong? In the beginning of this scenario you get what looks like a fully intentional message:
"Before Kalenz left the Ka'lian he had ordered Landar, Huraldur, Cleodil (...) to stay and guard it. Kalenz is from now on able to recruit Dwarves".
Sure; and that message is right.
Someone has changed the filter looking for units which are to be left behind without thinking twice I'm guessing, resulting in Landar and Cleodil being left behind. On the previous page of the thread I've quoted the relevant code passage as it was in 1.6.x

/edit
ahem, ok i don't understand why Cleodil and Landar should match that filter, since both should be on the map
still it doesn't make sense, first {RECALL_LOYALS} recalls all loyal units on the recall list, and then the filter tries to find loyal units that may have remained on the recall list...
from svn

Code: Select all

#define FILTER_LOYALS
    [filter_wml]
        upkeep="loyal"
    [/filter_wml]
#enddef

#define RECALL_LOYALS
    [store_unit]
        variable=loyals
        [filter]
            {FILTER_LOYALS}
        [/filter]
    [/store_unit]

    {FOREACH loyals loyal_one}
        [recall]
            id=$loyals[$loyal_one].id
        [/recall]
    {NEXT loyal_one}
    {CLEAR_VARIABLE loyals}
#enddef

Code: Select all

    [event]
        name=prestart

        {RECALL_LOYALS}
        # wmllint: recognize Arkildur
        # wmllint: recognize Tameril-Isimeril
        # wmllint: recognize Laril
        # wmllint: recognize Anduilas

        # these have been left behind to guard the Ka'lian
        [store_unit]
            variable=l3_store
            kill=yes
            [filter]
                type=Elvish Marshal,Elvish Champion,Elvish Avenger,Elvish Sharpshooter
                #TODO the filter is not tested
                [or]
                    {FILTER_LOYALS}
                    [not]
                        id=Anduilas
                    [/not]                   
                    x,y=recall,recall
                [/or]
 
                #Don't store units on the gameboard
                x,y=recall,recall
            [/filter]
        [/store_unit]
...
projects (BfW 1.12):
A Simple Campaign: campaign draft for wml startersPlan Your Advancements: mp mod
The Earth's Gut: sp campaignSettlers of Wesnoth: mp scenarioWesnoth Lua Pack: lua tags and utils
updated to 1.8 and handed over: A Gryphon's Tale: sp campaign

User avatar
santi
Lord of Wesmere
Posts: 1320
Joined: April 6th, 2004, 12:32 pm

Re: Legend of Wesmere-Elvish(Kalenz) Campaign

Post by santi » October 22nd, 2009, 6:22 am

The original intent is that Landar and Cleodil certainly make it to Thoria. So this is probably a bug.
As for silent or forbidden forest, you have an explanation of why this forest is somehow "special". Whether one wants to put it in SOTBE or THoT, I have no strong feelings. If I recall right there was a mention of "renegade" elves in SOTBE at the time, which motivated LoW's story. I'm sure you can come up with other interesting stories about forests inhabited by elves that are somehow "special"

PeteVine
Posts: 13
Joined: October 11th, 2009, 8:18 am

Re: Legend of Wesmere-Elvish(Kalenz) Campaign

Post by PeteVine » October 22nd, 2009, 9:51 am

Oh, indeed you did mention it on the previuous page - it's the same thing probably. I'm wondering if renaming of Tameril-Isimeril (which I did) might be connected in any way to this bug. Also while we're at it, another buggish thing following the "Elves' Last Stand" scenario is that on the right-click drop-down list you still have the two options of "Ask (NAME) leader of side (n) to move here".

Anonymissimus
Inactive Developer
Posts: 2460
Joined: August 15th, 2008, 8:46 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Legend of Wesmere-Elvish(Kalenz) Campaign

Post by Anonymissimus » October 22nd, 2009, 1:56 pm

PeteVine wrote:I'm wondering if renaming of Tameril-Isimeril (which I did) might be connected in any way to this bug.
Highly unlikely. This only changes the unit's user-visible name, but not its id. The name is not used when considering units in wml.
projects (BfW 1.12):
A Simple Campaign: campaign draft for wml startersPlan Your Advancements: mp mod
The Earth's Gut: sp campaignSettlers of Wesnoth: mp scenarioWesnoth Lua Pack: lua tags and utils
updated to 1.8 and handed over: A Gryphon's Tale: sp campaign

fabi
Developer
Posts: 1223
Joined: March 21st, 2004, 2:42 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Legend of Wesmere-Elvish(Kalenz) Campaign

Post by fabi » October 24th, 2009, 9:23 pm

Anonymissimus wrote:-23_End_of_War.cfg: Remove
[kill]
id=Landar
[/kill]
in Landar's last breath event. The death animation isn't played and there's no dialog following anyway.
Done.

PeteVine
Posts: 13
Joined: October 11th, 2009, 8:18 am

Re: Legend of Wesmere-Elvish(Kalenz) Campaign

Post by PeteVine » October 25th, 2009, 12:51 pm

santi wrote:The original intent is that Landar and Cleodil certainly make it to Thoria. So this is probably a bug.
It seems it's been fixed in 1.7.7 and now only two non-loyal characters are left behind in Bounty Hunters, probably as intended :)
This time I've noticed however (it was also the case in 1.7.6) that Olurf is both among the characters that you begin the scenario with and on the recall list.
Later I noticed that it'd really been fixed in svn so you are left without some loyal characters but with Cleodil, Landar and Anduilas. Still a second Olurf though.

Calza
Posts: 16
Joined: January 3rd, 2010, 12:51 am

I really dislike "Legend of Wesmere"...

Post by Calza » February 7th, 2010, 7:07 pm

Ok, I hope this thread won't be intended as a useless rant, but as a critic feedback. Moreover, I hope this is the right forum section, I was in doubt with mainline campaigns feedback. So let's start...

I think this campaign has at least three serious problems:
1. You are deprived of what you fought to have, I think this is really frustrating for a careful player. For example I levelled Anduilas to become my only marshal and he vanished after a specific scenario! So I had to create another elvish marshal to support my gaming strategy, even if I was extremely careful in keeping Anduilas alive in the campaign. Another example: I completed "Elves' last stand" with really a lot of gold, but I was given a ridicolous amount in the next scenario, even if the percentage of carried gold had to be lot higher. A last example: in "The chief must die" you can't get more gold, but at the end of the scenario you get only 80% of what you carried over... why?! That's unfair!
2. You are forced to play the way the creator of the campaign wants. The most significant example of this is in "Breaking the siege", where if you don't have a good amount of flying units you are screwed, since the map is huge and the snow doesn't allow normal units to move at a decent speed. I have only a sylph and a shyde, a part from Cleodil, and an enchantress, who cant' fly yet...
3. Sometimes you just can't do anything to prevent losses. The most frustrating map in this sense was "Cliffs of Thoria", since yetis can kill almost every unit with just two right hits and griphons coming out from the fog of war can be an unpredictable, serious harm. But that's not the only example, even against Saurian skirmisher or levelled-up trolls you are sometimes forced to cross your fingers and hope in a miss...

To conclude, a lot of frustrating situations, also in addition to the previous points, tempted me to adopt save/load, but I resisted quite well till now. Now I'm stuck at "Breaking the siege", I think that's the most boring map ever and I'm seriously thinking to leave this campaign and start the following one. I'm sorry for the creator of the campaign, but I'm really not enjoying it, despite his efforts.

So what do you think about that? Am I the only one to think this way?

Locked