The Hammer of Thursagan

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turin
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Post by turin »

I don't think it makes sense to say the art is dying at the time of Thursagan - rather, I'd say that the art was never huge to begin with, and when Thursagan, plus at least two fairly skilled Runesmiths, plus Theganli*, all die, the Academy vanishes. BTW, I tend to think that Durstorn's clan was the main Runesmithing one - just like the Shorbears were the main engineering one and the Surghans the main berserking one - so when they basically get annihilated (all of their best warriors blown up in volcano, along with the leader), the art of runecrafting goes with them.


*: it's not mentioned in the campaign, but I'm pretty sure he dies soon after the campaign, since Durstorn's clan disintegrates and Theganli doesn't have the street skills to survive outside of a clan.
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thespaceinvader
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Post by thespaceinvader »

Ah, fair enough. That makes sense to me, Turin.

And again, i don''t think an uber artifact having that much control over a whole race is a good thing - it seems unrealistic and OTT. But looking at the storyboards, i could read that as a semi-legendary telling of the story rather than as a real history - it would be easy to make Thursagan seem important 500 years after the event (or however long it was). That said though, the hammer is a real artifact, and i just struggle to see any one artifact as being that important, particularly given that there's no indication that thursagan's hammer was anything special in tSoF. You'd think if he was holding onto an artifact that powerful and important to his whole race, he wouldn't be an outcast...

I could see the hammer bearing some kind of record or knowledge about runesmithing, though. That seems like a nice way to go - having someone pick it up and be given the knowledge of its former owners is a nice thing for a magical item.

I like the idea of an annalist line. Not sure about them using bolas though.

EDIT: apologies for the rambliness of that. Trains of thought stop at many stations...
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Purpose of the death of the Runesmiths.

Post by esr »

Having all the runesmiths die when the Hammer and Thursagan gets caught in the volcanic explosion serves two purposes:

1) It explains why there aren't any runesmiths around.

2) It foreshadows the evil magic at the end of the campaign, in which Karrag is going to try to use the Hammer to bind the entire dwarvish race to his purpose of exterminating all non-dwarves.

Coming up with an alternate explanation of why runesmithing died out serves the first purpose but not the second. I need something big and bad and magical to have happened to the race of dwarves when Thursagan burned to death with his hand on the Hammer.

If it isn't the death of all the then-living runesmiths, what is it? I'm open to suggestions, but whatever it is has to foreshadow the possibility that what is done to the Hammer can affect every dwarf in the world.

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Re: Purpose of the death of the Runesmiths.

Post by zookeeper »

esr wrote:use the Hammer to bind the entire dwarvish race to his purpose of exterminating all non-dwarves.
esr wrote:I need something big and bad and magical to have happened to the race of dwarves when Thursagan burned to death with his hand on the Hammer.
esr wrote:what is done to the Hammer can affect every dwarf in the world.
Well, yeah, the hammer's properties can't really be toned down much if these requirements remain.

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Re: Purpose of the death of the Runesmiths.

Post by l'ultimo cruco »

zookeeper wrote: ...
Well, yeah, the hammer's properties can't really be toned down much if these requirements remain.
well, it is not really necessary that the hammer, or anything that is done to it, causes the world to end or the dwarven race being bound in enslavement:
it is enough that the charakters of the campaign think, that it can be done.
I mean, it is a magical artifact dating back in dwarven history quite enough for it to become a myth, which might well do anything.
It is a symbol of ancient dwarven magic, and as such it carries a huge symbolic importance for the dwarves. And liches tend to be insane by default, so he could just as well be wrong about the power of the hammer and of his spell.

So it might be enough to add some lines of dialog in "Court of Karrag" after Karrag unveils his evil plan:
Aiglondur: "He can't do this! Can he?"
Angarthing: "I don't know, but I prefer not to find out. We have to stop him anyway!"

Than in the epilogue:
Angarthing: "I don't know, if Karrag could have enslaved our whole race, but just the thought of it gives me the creeps..."

Or if you run out of time in the last scenario

defeat epilogue:
Hearing that all hope was gone, the strength of the dwarves faltered: wave of wave of undead, their once dwarven brothers, clashed against their dwindling numbers. It was just a matter of time...

Rumors of a new, gloomy shadow, creeping forth from Kal Karha, spread across the northlands...

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bug

Post by Cahir Mawr aep Griffin »

I think I encountered a bug in this campaign:
in scenario 5 blue orc leader captured a village that was previously occupied by the outlaws, and a footpad popped up next to him(even though the village had already been captured previously and lost by the orcs again), the AI turn just froze at that moment and didn't continue its turn.
The problem would be somewhere within the reaction of the leader to the footpad, because if he captured the village, he had no movement points obviously, however he was given an opportunity to attack the footpad that popped up.
I'm playing 10.3.10 and the version of the campaign I've downloaded today

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Post by Velensk »

I've been playing thorough, and I got to the end the senario where you pick up the archmage and a bug crashed the game it said that it could not find the next senario and here are my comments.

The tactical end of this campain is interesting in the fact that so little of the terrain is beniffital to you, in the first senario I spend a lot of time with dwarves in the open so I could lure out his troops and blast them to death with thunderers. However I am having troubles with it in the shear lack of veriety in troop recruitment. I can't even get gaurdsmen. I understand why you would not want griffons, or especialy ulfserkers in but something else would be benifital, maybe the dwarven runners from the extended era might be a good addition but I'm not sure.
by senario comments
1st interesting situation, not very challanging but then it's early in the campain so it does not have to be.
2nd senario, see first
3rd senario, not very interesting, felt like a filler senario but then you need some of those
4th senario, the bandits hurt the computer much more than you, first one that game me any sort of trouble, I'd recommend letting at least one of the orcs have assassins, because the orcs especilay when not at night have very little than can hurt entrenched dwarves very well.
5th senario, not a whole lot to say about this one you recruit some cannon fodder and dash accross and pick up the mage while you are at it.

I get the impression I missed a senario, but I can't think of the one I have missed.
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Post by thespaceinvader »

Second scenario - the bandit leader didn't recruit a thing until the 4th or 5th turn which meant i didn't even stand a chance at reaching him before the orc kicked his ass.

EDIT: third one, the trolls don't attack EDIT until about turn 4, despite having plenty of nice targets. I think they wait until they have CTK.
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What's CTK?

Post by esr »

EDIT: third one, the trolls don't attack EDIT until about turn 4, despite having plenty of nice targets. I think they wait until they have CTK.
What's CTK?

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THoT 0.7 is out with three new scenarios

Post by esr »

The Hammer Of Thursagan version 0.7 is out. It has three new scenarios; 7 (Mages and Drakes), 8 (Fear), and 9 (Forbidden Forest). 7 and 8 have had some balance testing, 9 none at all yet.

The bugs in the bandit-popup code in 5 (Invaders) should have been fixed in 0.6.

I have maps for 10 (The Siege of Kal Kartha) and 11 (The Court of Karrag) but not WML yet. I expect to get those done over the next week or so.

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Re: What's CTK?

Post by Aethaeryn »

esr wrote:
EDIT: third one, the trolls don't attack EDIT until about turn 4, despite having plenty of nice targets. I think they wait until they have CTK.
What's CTK?
Chance to kill, I think.

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esr
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Re: Purpose of the death of the Runesmiths.

Post by esr »

l'ultimo cruco wrote: .So it might be enough to add some lines of dialog in "Court of Karrag" after Karrag unveils his evil plan:
Aiglondur: "He can't do this! Can he?"
Angarthing: "I don't know, but I prefer not to find out. We have to stop him anyway!"
Not a bad idea, but I can't find a place to insert those lines that doesn't interrupt the wind-up to the evil overloard screaming "TAKE THEM!".

I might do something like what you suggested at the end, though.
Last edited by esr on November 21st, 2007, 5:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by peet »

It could be that the Hammer is a necessary artifact for creating something that could enslave the dwarves. Either another artifact, or some sort of spell.

Perhaps it could be revealed that the evil overlord has been collecting powerful dwarven artifacts for some time, and the Hammer is the final piece he thinks he will need to complete his spell.

For example, he could already have:
  • The skull of King Durthain, the ancient dwarven king
  • The crown of Tenebar, made by the dwarves for an elven king but never delivered, believed stolen by the orcs
  • The magic Tongs of Kulzhak, a legendary dwarven smith
  • The gauntlet of Haor, a mighty dwarven warrior
You get the idea.

Peet

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esr
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I dunno...

Post by esr »

We've already got one powerful magical artifact in the campaign and you want to introduce a hatful more? I'm kind of dubious. But I'm listening.

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Post by tsr »

In response to peets suggestion, I think you could just use it in dialog and then (after The Hammers of Thursagan becomes a blockbuster) you create a campaign for each of the objects who all end with the same final scenario :)

/tsr

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