Son of the Black Eye

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Count Zero
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Re: Son of the Black Eye - Mainline Version

Post by Count Zero » April 7th, 2008, 7:07 pm

I'm playing the Son of Blackeye campaign and have just gotten the the Back Home scenario. It starts up alright but after the scenario intro talk I just have Kapou'e and his troops left. Grüü is gone and so are the two orc chieftains that are instructed to circle around the humans. Does any one have a take on this? Is it a bug? I'm playing v1.4 from the Debian Lenny repositories and I get this output when I start the scenario:

Code: Select all

scenario: 'back_home'
next_scenario: 'back_home'
20080407 20:56:25 error engine: player not found!
20080407 20:56:26 error engine: could not de-serialize unit: 'load_game_failed: Attempt to de-serialize an empty unit'
20080407 20:56:26 error engine: player not found!
20080407 20:56:26 error engine: could not de-serialize unit: 'load_game_failed: Attempt to de-serialize an empty unit'
20080407 20:56:26 error engine: player not found!
20080407 20:56:26 error engine: could not de-serialize unit: 'load_game_failed: Attempt to de-serialize an empty unit'
20080407 20:56:26 error engine: player not found!
20080407 20:56:26 error engine: could not de-serialize unit: 'load_game_failed: Attempt to de-serialize an empty unit'
20080407 20:56:26 error engine: player not found!
20080407 20:56:26 error engine: could not de-serialize unit: 'load_game_failed: Attempt to de-serialize an empty unit'
20080407 20:56:26 error engine: player not found!
20080407 20:56:26 error engine: could not de-serialize unit: 'load_game_failed: Attempt to de-serialize an empty unit'
20080407 20:56:26 error engine: player not found!
20080407 20:56:26 error engine: could not de-serialize unit: 'load_game_failed: Attempt to de-serialize an empty unit'
20080407 20:56:26 error engine: player not found!
20080407 20:56:26 error engine: could not de-serialize unit: 'load_game_failed: Attempt to de-serialize an empty unit'
20080407 20:56:26 error engine: player not found!
The "20080407 20:56:26 error engine: player not found!" message was actually repeated about ten times consequently for every occurrence above but I shortened the output a bit to make it more readable.

Any and all help is much appreciated.

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zookeeper
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Re: Son of the Black Eye - Mainline Version

Post by zookeeper » August 25th, 2008, 3:59 pm

I've been making a rather big polishing pass on the whole campaign in the 1.5.x branch. In addition to a large number of little (mostly visual) tweaks, this includes a bigger rework of the scenarios 'Black Flag', 'Civil War' and 'Coward', as well as some changes to 'Saving Inarix'. Also, when leading the Great Horde in the latter half of the campaign, all your units get -1 upkeep.

Now, since I changed so much, the balance is probably a bit skewed at the moment - it's most likely too easy now, at least in the later scenarios due to the Great Horde bonus. I'd like it if people playtested the campaign and gave feedback on the difficulty level, and suggestions on how to rebalance parts which need rebalancing. The campaign is supposed to be, as it has always been, a pretty tough one.

1.5.3 contains all of the abovementioned changes, so that'd be the recommended version to play with. 1.5.2 contains everything up to and including 'Back Home'.

samual
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Re: Son of the Black Eye - Mainline Version

Post by samual » December 2nd, 2008, 1:39 pm

I'm playing the Map Saving Inarix, but there is no Inarix or any Saurian on my map, I suppose they should be already on the map, is this correct?

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zookeeper
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Re: Son of the Black Eye - Mainline Version

Post by zookeeper » December 2nd, 2008, 2:26 pm

samual wrote:I'm playing the Map Saving Inarix, but there is no Inarix or any Saurian on my map, I suppose they should be already on the map, is this correct?
No, they appear after a couple of turns. You would have found out that if...well, if you had actually played it.

Theron
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Re: Son of the Black Eye - Mainline Version

Post by Theron » December 6th, 2008, 6:04 pm

Hi, I just finished SotBE (medium difficulty, Wesnoth 1.5.6, Mac OS X 10.5.5).
This was the second time I completed SotBE.
I played several times till scenario 5.

I don't think SotBE is expert level anymore (or maybe I've gotten better).
Below are some comments which may help rebalancing.

Scenario, starting gold, turns/max turns
1 ? ?
2 ? ?
3 ? ?
4 ? 14/28 **
5 394 15/30
6 286 18/25
7 121 17/20
8 100* 23/38
9 392 10/20
10 361 13/16
11 381 25/24 ***
12 300* 13/24
13 440 13/30
14 618 15/40
15 957 24/35
16 778 13/32 ****
17 872 7/30 *****
18 1300 14/- ******

* default gold
** my strategy for The Siege of Barag-Gor was a bit different compared to the walkthrough:
1. I recalled all my veterans (1 Goblin Knight, 1 Goblin Pillager, 2 Wolf Rider (10/30 and 16/30 XP), 3 Orcish Warrior and 1 Orcish Crossbowman) and sent them south together with Grüü and the initial Wolf Rider (23/24 XP).
2. Then Kapou'e and 4 Wolf Riders (recruited) moved to the city. Once Kapou'e was there he spent the remaining gold recruiting Troll Whelps (just in time to hold the city).
3. Green was quickly defeated by my first force and the city defenders.
4. The main body of my first strike force went for Blue. At the city I formed 2 more strike forces for the northern enemies (each one having a Goblin Pillager).
5. Finished on turn 14 (Blue was the last enemy).
*** When Clash of Armies is finished unexperienced units (Great Horde reinforcement) are added to the recall list.
Suggestion: Do not add them to the recall list or give them a bit starting XP as an incentive to keep them (I recalled them all despite the 0 XP).
**** Till the end of scenario 16 my lost/kill ratio was about 1/10.
***** I only recruited Wolf Riders (40). I lost 22 and 5 leveled. The high MP allows for taking advantage of the gaps.
****** Although I had enough gold to recall most of my level 2 and level 3 units******* I tried the Wolf spam again:
I recalled and recruited 20 Wolf Riders, recalled all Direwolf Riders (9) and all Goblin Pillager (13). Finished on turn 14 with 481 gold left.
******* not used:
12 Orcish Slayer
4 Orcish Warlord
6 Orcish Slurbow
2 Orcish Grunt
1 Orcish Crossbowman
3 Saurian Flanker
3 Saurian Oracle
5 Saurian Soothsayer
2 Saurian Augur
5 Troll Rocklobber
7 Troll Warrior
1 Troll

I'm quite surprised how effective Wolf spam is (especially with the Great Horde bonus):
Only two level 2 kills are needed to level a Wolf Rider and they are fast enough to get to the injured or slowed enemies.
The new marksman weapon special of the Orcish Assassin/Slayer makes him quite useful and easy to level.
I think SotBE 1.5.x is easier than SotBE 1.4.x (even before the Great Horde bonus).

Thank you for the nice campaign.

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zookeeper
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Re: Son of the Black Eye - Mainline Version

Post by zookeeper » December 6th, 2008, 10:33 pm

Proper detailed feedback, thanks! I'll try to figure out some ways to toughen up the scenarios you finished most quickly a little bit.

Fixed the silly extra recallables from Clash of Armies, too.

Theron
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Re: Son of the Black Eye - Mainline Version

Post by Theron » December 7th, 2008, 10:44 am

Additional comments regarding the quick finishs:

Scenario 13 (Dwarvish Stand)
Most of my units were fast ones (Wolves, Assassins).

Scenario 14 (Back Home)
Black made a mistake. After I killed his forces he had on ice facing me I moved several level 2 and level 3 wolves into the unoccupied southern part of his castle. Then I was able to safely cross the ice with my slower units.
I don't know why but all of my replays are corrupt (maybe it has something to do with Maximum Auto-Saves=10). I'll attach a turn 3 save.

Scenario 16 (The Coward)
Shan Taum recruited mostly Ogres. I defended the river with Trolls and then attacked with a mixture of units I wanted to level (supported by Goblin Pillager).
I my former playthrough (1.4.x) I had to face a wider variation of units (including Assassins or Slayers)

Oh, and there is a WML error in Saving Inarix (sreenshot attached).

Regarding your feature request (bug #12604: Stop scrolling if mouse cursor exits the window):
I agree the "autoscrolling" was annoying. I play quit often in window mode. Usually I cmd-tab to another program and then move the mouse.
As it is now mouse scrolling in window mode is unusuable (you have to move the mouse onto the window border which is only a few pixel wide).
Attachments
SotBE-Back_Home_Turn_3a.gz
(76.99 KiB) Downloaded 348 times
Bild 1(2).png

Theron
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Re: Son of the Black Eye - Mainline Version

Post by Theron » January 10th, 2009, 3:18 pm

Wesnoth 1.5.6
Mac OS X 10.5.6

SotBE: Hard difficulty

Scenario, starting gold (default+carryover), turns/max turns
1 100+0 24/26
2 skipped
3 100+70 16/20
4 200+90 25/26
5 100+161 18/24
6 100+136 16/20
7 100+0 17/18
8 100+6 20/36
9 100+232 12/20
10 200+146 15/16
11 200+32 25/24
12 300+22 10/20
13 300+116 13/27
14 400+177 stopped playing

I think I will start over again after there are some more scenario changes (probably not in 1.5.7).

Comments:
Scenario 4 (The Siege of Barag Gor):
- Same strategie as in my medium difficulty play worked:
-- Heavy assault on Green = Green is quickly defeated and Blue is partly distracted
-- The main threat for the city will be the NW and NE enemies.
-- Kapoue (and some wolves) will be there just in time to fill the gaps of the defenses with Troll Whelps.
- Although in hard difficulty it was a close one = no further balancing needed.
Scenario 6 (Black Flag):
- A scenario I didn't win the first time.
- High replay value:
-- What type of units does the northern enemy recruit?
-- Where does your ally move his few units? And more importantly:
-- Does your ally suicide his units with any significant damage?
-- Where do the ships try to land? Do you have the opportunity to kill one (better two) ship before they offload their cargo? (I recommend using wolves.)
- Therefore this scenario is a bit luck depended.
- IMHO no further balancing is needed.
Scenario 7 (The Desert of Death):
- The first time ever I finished with positive gold: 4 recruits (3 Archer, 1 Wolf) and 2 recalls (2 Pillager) mean low upkeep.
Scenario 8 (Silent Forest):
- Easy, even with default gold
- Strategy: Lure the elves out of the forest.
Scenario 9 (Shan Taum The Smug):
- The goal "Survive for 20 turns" is a joke:
- With so much gold I crushed Shan Taums forces.
Scenario 10 (Saving Inarix):
- Main "problem": Resist the urge to score one more kill = retreat too late.
- IMHO a must: Get one Saurian Soothsayer. Sacrifice Saurian Skirmishers if needed.
Scenario 11 (Clash of Armies):
- Not too hard.
- Strategy:
-- Bridge force = 1 Soothsayer, Kapoue, 2 Warlords and 2-3 units for rotating (e.g. Warlords, even Orcish Warriors and Crossbowman will do). Beware of the occasional Gryphon and of enemies with the quick trait.
-- Beach force = Mainly saurians, assassins, wolves (Goblin Pillager!). Let no mermen attack the bridge force!
Scenario 14 (Back Home):
- Kapoue can still recruit Troll Whelps although Gruu has left the party.

Comparison of my progress (medium difficulty play vs. hard) at the start of scenario 14:

Statistics, Medium, Hard
Recruits 76 87
Recalls 119 106
Advancements 72 78
Losses 36 38
Kills 338 378

Experienced Units, Medium, Hard
Wolf Rider 4 3
Goblin Knight 2 2
Direwolf Rider 6 7
Goblin Pillager 5 8
-
Orcish Assassin 2 2
Orcish Slayer 8 4
-
Orcish Archer 0 1
Orcish Crossbowman 0 4
Orcish Slurbow 4 5
-
Orcish Warrior 1 1
Orcish Warlord 4 6
-
Saurian Skirmisher 0 5
Saurian Ambusher 1 1
Saurian Flanker 3 0
-
Saurian Oracle 2 0
Saurian Soothsayer 4 4
-
Troll Whelp 1 2
Troll 2 0
Troll Warrior 4 4
Troll Rocklobber 3 2

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zookeeper
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Re: Son of the Black Eye - Mainline Version

Post by zookeeper » January 10th, 2009, 8:29 pm

Thanks! Again, that's quite exemplary detailed feedback. :D
Theron wrote:I think I will start over again after there are some more scenario changes (probably not in 1.5.7).
1.5.7 didn't have much changes, true. Some little ones here and there, but nothing major. I still haven't gotten to doing the making-most-scenarios-just-a-little-bit-harder pass, and won't do that before 1.5.8 either. But still, whenever I will, I'll mostly be doing it according to your feedback there.

Sneezy
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Re: Son of the Black Eye - Mainline Version

Post by Sneezy » February 28th, 2009, 8:30 pm

Hi-- I recently downloaded BfW 1.5.11 and started up the mainline version of SotBE. Playing on win2k SP4. I played this campaign a couple years ago, and wanted to try the newer, improved version.

At scenario 3, Siege of Barag Gor, I found some unexpected behavior.

Had a goblin pillager in my force at the end of scenario 2. At the beginning of scenario 3, after the little action sequence by the "scout," the pillager is not in the recall list, and all I've got is the rookie wolf-rider that did the scouting maneuver. Looking at the WML, it seems that the intent is to pull a unit off the recall list and use him in the "scout" role. In my case, I suspect the pillager got pulled off the list, but he got lost (maybe he deserted, perish the thought!), and a brand-new, zero-XP wolf-rider appeared in his place. The new WR had a different name, and different traits, so it doesn't seem like a case of lost stats; it seems to be a different unit entirely. As if it came from the [else] branch in the WML.

At the very start of scenario 2, Budish the pillager had role="second" and he was the unit that did the "snicker" when Kapou'e was talking.
At the very start of scenario 2, Budish the pillager is in the file, and has role="Helper"
I suspect the "Helper" got set during the execution of scenario 2.
(Those couple of facts may or may not help; seems worth mentioning, though.)

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zookeeper
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Re: Son of the Black Eye - Mainline Version

Post by zookeeper » February 28th, 2009, 9:18 pm

Thanks, it was a bug in the scenario code, should be fixed now. If you want, you can use the fixed scenario file (need to restart from the beginning-of-scenario save after overwriting the scenario file and restarting Wesnoth).

Sneezy
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Re: Son of the Black Eye - Mainline Version

Post by Sneezy » February 28th, 2009, 10:35 pm

Tried it. That fixes the problem. Thanks for the super-quick bug-fix!

Theron
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Re: Son of the Black Eye - Mainline Version

Post by Theron » October 28th, 2009, 4:55 pm

SotBE, medium difficulty / Wesnoth 1.7.7 / Mac OS X 10.6.1

Below is some information which can be used for balancing.

Scenario, starting gold (default+carryover), turns/max turns, recruits-recalls-advancements-losses-kills
1 100+0 28/30 12-0-3-1-18
2 skipped
3 100+129 15/24 15-9-9-4-31
4 200+150 18/28 26-20-16-6-73
5 100+261 13/30 31-34-20-6-99
6 100+190 19/25 33-44-29-7-130
7 100+48 18/20 34-49-32-8-147
8 100+10 28/38 38-55-41-8-179
9 100+205 16/20 46-64-49-12-211
10 200+110 12/16 48-80-51-15-248
11 200+102 25/24 51-93-63-17-328
12 300+2 12/24 65-98-71-21-350
13 300+184 18/30 71-110-76-24-378
14 400+266 13/35 75-130-91-30-424
15 400+514 29/35 95-151-108-48-490
16 400+370 14/32 108-165-123-60-529
17 400+348 11/30 155-165-131-102-555
18 700+500 15/- 175-190-146-137-613

Comments:
Scenario 4/5:
While scenario 4 is well balanced scenario 5 becomes too easy if one has lots of bonus gold.
A possible solution to reduce bonus gold may be: In scenario 4 remove some of the remote elven villages but give them a higher, equivalent base income.
Scenario 6:
Only wolf units used - works great!
Scenario 17:
As in my last play-through I only recruited wolves (47). But it felt harder and my losses were significantly higher: It was like all-or-nothing.
Thankfully the Earl moved a few hexes towards my units. At first I ZOCed him. After he was injured he seeked healing in a village although he should have moved back to the main castle (where he should have used his fresh money).
Next time I'll recall my veteran wolves, too. A few slows, a few hard hits or poisoning and there should be no more problem to kill the Earl before too many of his reinforcements arrive.
Scenario 18:
Recruited/recalled: 22 Wolf Riders, 9 Direwolf Riders, 14 Goblin Pillager
In the end I had 594 gold left.
Again the Earl engaged in combat. His last attack was really stupid: Already injured he moved into the open and attacked without being covered from his other units.
I think his aggression has to be tuned.

Experienced units at the start of scenario 18:
Wolf Rider 2
Goblin Knight 0
Direwolf Rider 9
Goblin Pillager 14
-
Orcish Assassin 0
Orcish Slayer 10
-
Orcish Archer 0
Orcish Crossbowman 1
Orcish Slurbow 8
-
Orcish Grunt 0
Orcish Warrior 1
Orcish Warlord 3
-
Saurian Skirmisher 0
Saurian Ambusher 0
Saurian Flanker 1
-
Saurian Augur 0
Saurian Oracle 3
Saurian Soothsayer 5
-
Troll Whelp 0
Troll 0
Troll Warrior 6
Troll Rocklobber 2
+
1 Warlord, 1 Flanker, 1 Slayer, 1 Troll Hero, 1 Orcish Sovereign

If you like to see a replay just ask.

Bugs:
"Sighted event" bug in scenario 8:
I got the message "Men, capture one of these elves …" _after_ I already interrogated one.
(I think the event isn't triggered when the enemy moves a unit into sight.)
Message bugs (https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?14633):
Scenario 11: The message "Then, they will assault Prestim …" has to be closed with an OK-Button.
Scenario 18: The message "Collaborating with the humans …" has to be closed with an OK-Button.

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Simons Mith
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Re: Son of the Black Eye

Post by Simons Mith » October 29th, 2010, 3:56 pm

Shaman and Watchtower Unit Descriptions

I wrote some new unit descriptions for SkyOne's Fate of a Princess campaign, which uses Orcish Shamans, Orcish Witch Doctors and Watchtowers. Wondered if you might like to back-port them (or elements of them) into SotBE. Here they are:

Witch Doctor - a second level shaman in FoaP, but perhaps the bit from 'Stories abound...' onwards might be of use. Use to customise the 'Old Orcish Shaman' slightly, perhaps?

Code: Select all

description= _ "A senior orcish shaman is known as a Witch Doctor. In combat, they can use a powerful magical curse that drains their foes’ life-force and uses it to heal the witch doctor. Witch doctors are still physically weak, but they have an aura of magical power around them that no orc could fail to notice. Stories abound of over-powerful warlords being brought low by the machinations of their shamans; but there are also tales of wise warlords who heeded their shamans’ advice and led their tribes to prosperity for decades at a time. Shamans and witch doctors, of course, are often also guardians of orcish tribal lore."+{SPECIAL_NOTES}+{SPECIAL_NOTES_DRAIN}
Orcish Shaman

Code: Select all

description= _ "Orcish Shamans are the guardians of orcish magic. Respected by all orcish tribes, they often act as arbitrators for the many conflicts that arise between members of their warlike race. When acting together, the shamans can make decisions which are binding upon every orc. Although physically weak (for orcs), shamans are good spell-casters and can cast curses that drain an enemy’s life-force and re-invigorate the shaman. Out of combat, the hexes they can cast are deadlier and even more insidious, and other orcs rightly hold their shamans in awe."+{SPECIAL_NOTES}+{SPECIAL_NOTES_DRAIN}
Removed mention of the 'Orcish Council' in my generic version, as it's SotBE-specific. Easy enough to put back, though.

Watch_Tower

Code: Select all

description= _ "Watchtowers are excellent vantage points from which to spot enemies and then shoot enormous projectiles at them with ballistas."
Only changed a couple of words here, but I think this one is significantly better. Also, 'Watch Tower' ought to be one word not two.

... Is this thread the right place for this sort of feedback? Please move it to the Writer's Forum if not, I suppose...
 

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GunChleoc
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Re: Son of the Black Eye

Post by GunChleoc » October 14th, 2012, 10:22 am

I'm currently doing an image localisation round and I found a small bug in the great-continent.xcf file: The label for "Swamp of Desolation" is part of the "Far North Marsh" layer instead of the "Far North labels" layer. This makes it hard for translators to do produce a high quality image. If somebody still has this label in a separate layer, it would help :)

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