Son of the Black Eye

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pauxlo
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The Coward - wrong messager

Post by pauxlo » August 26th, 2007, 4:45 pm

In "The Coward" (after the just discussed "Civil war"), I got in the third round a dialog between the enemy leader and Kapou'e. From the content, this should be one of my warriors, not Orga.

Looks like this

Code: Select all

[role]
	role="Helper"
	type="Orcish Warlord, Orcish Warrior, Goblin Knight, Goblin Pillager, Orcish Grunt, Orcish Crossbowman, Orcish Archer"
[/role]
(from the save file) is the cause ... Orga (the enemy leader) is the only one Orcish Warlord then in Battle.

The description of role looks like something like

Code: Select all

[role]
	role="Helper"
	type="Orcish Warlord, Orcish Warrior, Goblin Knight, Goblin Pillager, Orcish Grunt, Orcish Crossbowman, Orcish Archer"
	side=1
[/role]

could work, but I didn't test this.

PS: The problem with Orga saying this is that I thougt he will soon change side ...

Taurus
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Post by Taurus » September 6th, 2007, 7:04 pm

Sorry for the late reply, but thans again for pointing this out. I'll check into it.
Creater of the campaign, "Northern Rebirth"

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friar tuck
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Starting gold at "Silent Forest" scenario

Post by friar tuck » November 6th, 2007, 4:41 am

Just a minor question to find out whether I'm doing anything basically wrong:

Is ist possible to finish the Desert Of Death with positive gold?

I find that scenario very draining. I already replayed back to the Black Flag to start the Desert of Death with about 300 gold, but all is lost until the end of the scenario owing to negative income. With slow movement on desert ground, I don't see how I could finish significantly earlier to get more bonus.

Now I'm at the next scenario with 100 starting gold, and it seems very tedious with no funds to recruit any veteran units.

To change anything about this situation, it seems I have a major amount of replaying to do, so I'd just like to know whether this is to be expected.

PS: It might be seen as a bug that if Gruu eats a scorpion, he gets re-poisoned at every reload later on.

PPS: Very nice campaign. Though I notice that while I like Northerners in MP, they have too few leveling options to be much fun as campaign heroes. I wish the shamans could level up.

Taurus
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Re: Starting gold at "Silent Forest" scenario

Post by Taurus » November 18th, 2007, 7:14 pm

friar tuck wrote:Just a minor question to find out whether I'm doing anything basically wrong:

Is ist possible to finish the Desert Of Death with positive gold?

I find that scenario very draining. I already replayed back to the Black Flag to start the Desert of Death with about 300 gold, but all is lost until the end of the scenario owing to negative income. With slow movement on desert ground, I don't see how I could finish significantly earlier to get more bonus.

Now I'm at the next scenario with 100 starting gold, and it seems very tedious with no funds to recruit any veteran units.

To change anything about this situation, it seems I have a major amount of replaying to do, so I'd just like to know whether this is to be expected.
As far as my memory goes, you are not expected to win with positive Gold. In the next scenario however, you start with many vilages close to your base so you should be ok. For Silent Forest (the following scenario) recruit a mix of new units, to flesh out the ranks and hopefully level up - backed up by a few vetrens to hold the line.
PS: It might be seen as a bug that if Gruu eats a scorpion, he gets re-poisoned at every reload later on.
In that scenario yes, but it should be over by silent forest. And what are you doing save/loading anyway :x
PPS: Very nice campaign. Though I notice that while I like Northerners in MP, they have too few leveling options to be much fun as campaign heroes. I wish the shamans could level up.
True, but hey, there is something to be said of the raw power of having 5 Troll Warriors in your recall list :-D The shamans don't stay with you the whole campaign, and they are not ment to be fighting units anyway. I am glad you like the campaign and thanks for the feedback.
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friar tuck
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Re: Starting gold at "Silent Forest" scenario

Post by friar tuck » November 18th, 2007, 9:43 pm

Taurus wrote: As far as my memory goes, you are not expected to win with positive Gold. In the next scenario however, you start with many vilages close to your base so you should be ok. For Silent Forest (the following scenario) recruit a mix of new units, to flesh out the ranks and hopefully level up - backed up by a few vetrens to hold the line.
Yep. It turned out not to be very difficult to win silent forest early even with 100 Gold and I started the next scenario with 524...

But its hard to keep any of it after the shan taum scenario, and I've been working with default gold more or less ever since.
Taurus wrote:
PS: It might be seen as a bug that if Gruu eats a scorpion, he gets re-poisoned at every reload later on.
In that scenario yes, but it should be over by silent forest. And what are you doing save/loading anyway :x
Ha! See if you can stop me :lol:
Taurus wrote:
PPS: Very nice campaign. Though I notice that while I like Northerners in MP, they have too few leveling options to be much fun as campaign heroes. I wish the shamans could level up.
True, but hey, there is something to be said of the raw power of having 5 Troll Warriors in your recall list :-D
Yea, they're doing almost all the work. When I know I'll be deep in the negative at the end of scenario anyway, there's no need to rush for the early finish bonus, so I can give them time to heal.

OTOH, I thought this campaign was about Orcs...
I have about a dozen warlords and slurbows on my recall list and am never recalling them because the trolls are so much mor effective for the gold...
Taurus wrote: The shamans don't stay with you the whole campaign, and they are not ment to be fighting units anyway. I am glad you like the campaign and thanks for the feedback.


Er, I'm in the back home scenario and do still have three (elder) shamans on my recall list (all level one). Of course I never recall them because they are so weak...

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Aethaeryn
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Post by Aethaeryn » November 18th, 2007, 11:34 pm

They're not supposed to be on your recall list... I think...

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Nova
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Post by Nova » November 19th, 2007, 5:56 am

Yeah, they're there. 3 of 'em, all Elders, all with wiped XP. That's gotta be some kind of bug.
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Taurus
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Post by Taurus » November 23rd, 2007, 7:28 pm

Yeah, I beileive it is a bug. I'll check into it and get it it fixed. As always, thanks for pointing it out.
Creater of the campaign, "Northern Rebirth"

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Smalltalk1955
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thoughts on "Son of the Black Eye"

Post by Smalltalk1955 » December 1st, 2007, 8:32 pm

I just finished "Son of the Black Eye" on easy and wanted to record my thoughts while they were fresh. I've been playing it for a couple of weeks, so my thoughts aren't *that* fresh.

The walktrhough at http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/SonOfThe_BlackEye is out of date. It is missing Silent Forest and Giving Some Back, for example. I think the advice on "Towards the Mountains of Haag" is out of date. It doesn't mention that you don't get an early finishing bonus, which means that it pays to linger and get gold from villages. Moreover, I was able to wipe out all the dwarves, getting lots of XP, though perhaps that was only possible because I was playing "easy". I recruited lots of archers and stayed out of the mountains. When the dwarves came after me, I ganged up on them. Maybe the AI would be smarter on harder levels of play.

The advice on the Siege of Barag-Gor seemed wrong, too. I sent my initial force to the city to protect it. I sent my second recruiting force north, and I sent my third recruiting force south. The enemy to the north had spent most his energy on attacking the city, so was easy to kill, then I got his villages and the city got a reprieve. I recruited lots of troll whelps, some of which leveled up. It was the start of a long and mutually satisfying relationship with trolls. I love playing trolls!

The Desert of Death was hard! I bet I played it a dozen times before I figured it out, and even so it required a bit of luck. The first time i finished, I used too many forces and didn't have any gold for the next time. Eventually I figured out that wolves and assassins were the best recruits. I recalled a troll to help Guu.

Saving Inarix was easy, since I had several Troll Warriors and a gang of Trolls by that time. Perhaps I should have followed advice and leveled up some other forces. Class of Armies was bloody, but I only had to play it a couple of times to get through with a lot of mony.

Back Home was harder than it should have been because my trolls were (as always in this scenario) late to the party, and my level 3 forces were all slow and took FOREVER to meet the enemy. I went back and replayed A Dwarvish Stand with minimal forces so I could get a lot of gold, then I recruited troll whelps to take the first few rounds from the enemy, and then my slow level 3 forces entered and finished them off. Then the elves arrived, and I fought them off until FINALLY Gruu with his army of Troll Warriors arrived to destroy anything daring to stand in their way. This shows that early on, I should have picked quick orcs to level up. It would be nice if there was a way for me to mark individual units so that I could tell that I wanted to promote them fast. When you have a bunch of forces on the field, it is hard to remember which are "quick".

A hint for "The Coward". This is a big board, but there are a LOT of turns. Harvesting villages is crucial. I tend to recall and recruit and then have Kapou'e join in the charge of the next to the last group. However, this scenario is like scenarios in other campaigns, where it is better for Kapou'e to stay behind and keep recruiting once money starts to flow in. It is very helpful to have some high-level wolves at this point. A Dwarvish Stand was good for that.

Human Attack was easy. I played it twice, because the first time I recruited too much and ended up with too little gold. Northern Alliance was hard, even though it is a similar scenario. The problem is that Kapou'e cant start recruiting until turn 6 or so, and the General gets such a head start that he seems impossible to beat. He isn't, though. I sent just a half-dozen Troll Warriors and wolves to attack Shan Taum and spent about three turns recruiting for the attack on the General. I think I had about 50 units when I was finally ready, most first level whelps, archers, and assassins. By this time it was night, and the General's forces had almost completely wiped out my allies, but were spread all over the field. My forces destroyed his, with "only" 50% or 70% casualties. My Troll Warriors hit him in the morning right when his reinforcements arrived. My Warriors seemed pretty wimpy in the day, and it took a couple of rounds for him to die, even with three Troll Warriors wailing on him. I completely filled up his castle so that even with 500 gold, he couldn't recruit. Then my guys collected XP on the reinforcements while the other group finally got through the maze of assassins to kill the cowardly traitor, Shan Taum.

Victory at last! But it is a bit sad not to have any more scenarios. This was a fun campaign!

I think I'll play it again on a harder level and see how the strategy changes.

Taurus
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Re: thoughts on "Son of the Black Eye"

Post by Taurus » December 9th, 2007, 10:05 pm

Smalltalk1955 wrote:I just finished "Son of the Black Eye" on easy and wanted to record my thoughts while they were fresh. I've been playing it for a couple of weeks, so my thoughts aren't *that* fresh.
Thanks for the feedback Smalltalk :-)
The walktrhough at http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/SonOfThe_BlackEye is out of date. It is missing Silent Forest and Giving Some Back, for example. I think the advice on "Towards the Mountains of Haag" is out of date. It doesn't mention that you don't get an early finishing bonus, which means that it pays to linger and get gold from villages. Moreover, I was able to wipe out all the dwarves, getting lots of XP, though perhaps that was only possible because I was playing "easy". I recruited lots of archers and stayed out of the mountains. When the dwarves came after me, I ganged up on them. Maybe the AI would be smarter on harder levels of play.
I myself didn't create that walkthrough, but I am grateful to whomever did. Based on your experince, feel free to add to it :-)
The advice on the Siege of Barag-Gor seemed wrong, too. I sent my initial force to the city to protect it. I sent my second recruiting force north, and I sent my third recruiting force south. The enemy to the north had spent most his energy on attacking the city, so was easy to kill, then I got his villages and the city got a reprieve. I recruited lots of troll whelps, some of which leveled up. It was the start of a long and mutually satisfying relationship with trolls. I love playing trolls!
I wouldn't say it is quite wrong, especially on the medium and hard levels. Play-testing on medium, I was hard pressed to defend the city and at the same time wield a field force who would take the elves out one by one. Although I myself didn't follow the stratagy outlined in the walkthrough myself, I can see the merits in it. Once again, feel free to add your experience to it but make sure to note your difficulty level.
A hint for "The Coward". This is a big board, but there are a LOT of turns. Harvesting villages is crucial. I tend to recall and recruit and then have Kapou'e join in the charge of the next to the last group. However, this scenario is like scenarios in other campaigns, where it is better for Kapou'e to stay behind and keep recruiting once money starts to flow in. It is very helpful to have some high-level wolves at this point. A Dwarvish Stand was good for that.
Once again, this is only posable on the easy level. On hard and medium, you will be hard pressed to make it to the signpost before your time runs out.
Victory at last! But it is a bit sad not to have any more scenarios. This was a fun campaign!

I think I'll play it again on a harder level and see how the strategy changes.
Glad you liked the campaign, and once again, thanks for all the feedback. Let me know how you make out on the harder levels :-)
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vetgirig
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Re: thoughts on "Son of the Black Eye"

Post by vetgirig » December 12th, 2007, 7:16 am

Smalltalk1955 wrote:
This shows that early on, I should have picked quick orcs to level up. It would be nice if there was a way for me to mark individual units so that I could tell that I wanted to promote them fast. When you have a bunch of forces on the field, it is hard to remember which are "quick".
One can rename units. So one can use that to help one remember their traits or other things one want to rememeber.

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Post by Weeksy » December 12th, 2007, 7:32 am

when you have renamed units, you can press the / key, to open up a menu, and from there you can search for strings or hex locations. If you name all your units 'quickresilient' and 'strongintelligent' then you can just search for quick or strong, and just keep pressing / then enter until you get to one near where you'll want it.
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Bug?

Post by woody » January 14th, 2008, 3:01 am

Anyone else get that "the file you're trying to load is corrupt" message at the beginning of A Dwarvish Stand?
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ragesoss
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grammar problems

Post by ragesoss » January 21st, 2008, 1:54 am

There are a few places in the last several scenarios and intervening story text where "then" is used when it should be "than". I think I noticed this three times.

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Re: Bug?

Post by ragesoss » January 21st, 2008, 1:55 am

woody wrote:Anyone else get that "the file you're trying to load is corrupt" message at the beginning of A Dwarvish Stand?
That was happening with me, but it seems to have been fixed with version 1.3.14 .

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