Northern Rebirth

This is the place for discussing development of mainline campaigns, reporting bugs in them and providing overall feedback.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Post Reply
GekigangerIII
Posts: 5
Joined: January 24th, 2008, 12:02 am

Post by GekigangerIII » February 23rd, 2008, 4:09 am

Several versions ago I beat this campaign in Easy mode. I've come back to it and would like to tackle it on Medium, but I'm having a problem in the very first campaign: the orc leaders will not stop moving around.

In particular the level-3 leader, who was previously willing to duke it out with the level-2 leader, now prefers to abandon his fortress and run around grabbing villages in the north. After ten turns he reaches my fortress in the forest and either kills me, or moves in and recruits a ton of guys, and at that point it's all over for me.

Is this intended behavior? Maybe the orc leaders should be switched to passive?

energyman76c
Posts: 199
Joined: May 26th, 2004, 9:38 pm

Post by energyman76c » March 2nd, 2008, 11:45 am

Hi,

at the end of the campaign in 'NR Epilogue' a lot of dialogue is missing. Hamel is missing completly, because there are answers for stuff that was never shown. Hamel raised to his feet - what he says is not shown, only the reaction. Anita-dialogue seems to be missing too.
Attachments
NR-Epilogue_replay.gz
(89.4 KiB) Downloaded 294 times

User avatar
santi
Lord of Wesmere
Posts: 1320
Joined: April 6th, 2004, 12:32 pm

Post by santi » March 3rd, 2008, 6:46 am

Just a quick question: I am playing this on the hardest level and got till
the 6th scenario(Settling disputes). I start with some 80 gold(not by choice,
gold from previous scenaria is withheld) or so and my ally also has no more gold than this, plus he can only recruit berserkers, which are no good against gryphons. I get (together with my ally) maybe 10 villages
and have to face huge number of opponents, and especially fast gryphons.
I looked at the scenario cfg and found that the opponent has some 1600 gold. But that is not my problem, the problem is I have to win in 15 rounds
and I think this looks impossible, also given that the enemy is in mountainous terrain and my mages are slow to get there, even without the huge number of enemy forces in between.
One strategy might be to try and draw the enemy forces west and then strike fast(as fast as mages can strike) from the east-that does not seem to work,
also because the enemy has too many gryphons to break down the defences west. The mages can teleport, but apparently not under my control, so
an assasination strategy does not seem to work.
Has anyone beaten this scenario on hardest level?

Soliton
Site Administrator
Posts: 1539
Joined: April 5th, 2005, 3:25 pm
Location: #wesnoth-mp

Post by Soliton » March 3rd, 2008, 7:22 am

santi wrote:Has anyone beaten this scenario on hardest level?
Yeah, with a couple of Dwarvish Lords. Before (played it with 1.3.16+svn) the opponent even had 2000 gold.. I think it's still pretty rediculous and the short turn limit makes little sense as well.
I was pretty sure this was quite different the last time I played it but I checked the 1.0 version and the gold amount was actually the same. I suspect the recruitment_pattern was buggy then. Also you had 30 turns back then though.

Since those changes were done before the campaign went mainline I can't check why those changes were done. Together with the removal of many loyalist units you could recruit before unfortunately quite some poor changes IMO..
"If gameplay requires it, they can be made to live on Venus." -- scott

User avatar
santi
Lord of Wesmere
Posts: 1320
Joined: April 6th, 2004, 12:32 pm

Post by santi » March 3rd, 2008, 10:02 am

Yes, DLs would help, but I lost two of them in the last rounds of
the Pursuit: One from an extremely lucky attack by the western commander and one trying to shield the mages from the liches when I go to Malifor. Since
the dwarves were with me I imagined this would not be a huge loss and I could recruit dwarves again. I should have used footpads instead...
In any case I think this scenario is seriously unbalanced on hardest level,
even if the point is to lose advanced units in exchange for the liches.

Also, storywise, the Ro-mages have NOT been killed by Stalrag, but by Konrad and co in Mountain pass. This had been (unwisely IMHO) removed from HttT, but voted back. So the dialog should change(not a big deal storywise).

User avatar
Death
Posts: 85
Joined: April 15th, 2008, 3:34 am

Re: Northern Rebirth - Mainline

Post by Death » November 28th, 2008, 12:45 pm

Yeah, this is way after the fact, but what the hey.


Just now playing my way through this campaign on Nightmare. For first-time through, I do reload fairly frequently, though it saves me a lot of time if I don't have to use them. However, sometimes even with reloading I work myself into an unwinnable situation, and have to try a different approach, like the first level of eastern invasion before I knew where I had to rendezvouz.


Anyway, just beat Settling Disputes yesterday, after having to try completely different approaches and restarting the level at least 2-3 times. What wasn't working for me was trying to use diversionary tactics, and sneaking in an assassination group. Sending flyers to the South got into a tangle with many griffins. Sending a pack down the middle attracted just a huge amount of troops in a wide formation.

What finally worked, and actually so well that I think it could be done fairly reliably w/o reloads, was sending EVERYBODY straight east as fast as possible, then straight south hugging the edge of the map, and straight down through the mountains.

By sticking close together, and presenting no attractive targets, I was able to bust a path South far enough until Tallin (w/ the rod), the Specter (who died fighting the lich ): ), Krash, and a quick dwarven lord could get in killing range (come to think of it, there was only about 2 spots open, but it was enough). The specter and the dwarven lord do hella damage to the lich, and the rest of my power squad was strong enough to survive the push. I just hope the old ghost ain't in the rest of the story.


Anyhoo, so far, pretty fun. The first level was my favorite. In general, I like levels where you're forced to rely on level 1/0 units, and there's nothing like a fight between more than two parties. Right, gj!

User avatar
santi
Lord of Wesmere
Posts: 1320
Joined: April 6th, 2004, 12:32 pm

Re: Northern Rebirth - Mainline

Post by santi » November 28th, 2008, 2:00 pm

I had also tried this strategy, the problem was that a) if you keep Stalrag in the keep, he dies to the griffins unless a sizeable porion of your force stays to shield him. If not thegriffins could free the imprisoned lich, but b)assumingthis has been fixed, then the problem is that the pass is narrow(you really cannot get in the water), the mages which are needed to heal slow and a HUGE number of enemies that must be cleared to advance. I'd like to see a replay

User avatar
Death
Posts: 85
Joined: April 15th, 2008, 3:34 am

Re: Northern Rebirth - Mainline

Post by Death » November 29th, 2008, 12:48 pm

Oh, sure!

Yeah, I was worried about Stalrag at first, but for some reason the griffins never targeted him, or the cage. I think in this go-through, a bunch of ulfs actually went west to the middle crossing (for god knows what reason), and they ate up a number of griffins while I made the push.

The turning moment of this game was one not-quite-night turn when the baddies that could have swarmed me close to the enemy keep... didn't. There's a point where they fanned out for a turn before night came (and then they swarmed), but too late as I could reach the lich with enough for a kill.

I hope this is the right version. I'm still kind of new to this stuff (heh, hopefully I haven't been playing a campaign that since has been beefed up to the max)


EDIT: Well :(. I just tried to watch it, and for some reason it won't load. Apparently the replay doesn't save the start condition w/ extra units? I don't know. Anyway, I'm uploading my saves, so you can at least get a general idea of what happened.
Attachments
SDsaves.zip
(765.29 KiB) Downloaded 273 times
NR-Settling_Disputes_replay.gz
(45.68 KiB) Downloaded 274 times

User avatar
Death
Posts: 85
Joined: April 15th, 2008, 3:34 am

Re: Northern Rebirth - Mainline

Post by Death » January 9th, 2009, 1:27 pm

Okay, finally, finally, finished this campaign on Nightmare. I'm playing whatever was shipped with 1.4

Here are some notes:

Infested Caves
Using mostly thugs->highwaymen, I completed this map twice by clearing out all the leaders. It is possible, the most difficult part is clearing the 2-space tunnels quickly.

To the Mines
Both times I played this map, I rushed straight North, and the boss would rush straight into me. Dunno. Whatever the reason this happens, it leaves me with a ton of gold for the next level which is fine by me.

Settling Disputes
The strategy seems to be: send level 3's directly east then south AFAP. The second time, I had to leave a straggler on defense, because a grif actually did release old Ro'. The trick to pushing far enough down the mountains to reach the lich is to always present your strongest healthiest units in front (aka the southern-most units), so that the AI doesn't clog you in place.

The trick to winning this map is all about messing the AI.

Stolen Gold
Kill the blue (NW) leader on turn 3. As the walkthrough states, the 4-5 forest units with the rest fortified in the W mountains makes this level a cinch. The mages can take out the E leaders, and mountain dwarves will eventually wipe the trolls.


Eastern Fortress
The best plan that worked for me was:

Dwarven Lord line along the diagonal loosely held together by villages. Drakes in the North, hidden behind the DL's at night, swarming and killing during the day.

Middle line mostly of mages + highwaymen. retreating in the night until the orcs fill up that little pocket (the one just east of the narrow gap), then slaughter during the day.

Fast defenders for the S roaming villages. Eventually, when mid's cleared up a bit, peel off units to help South as needed.


The weirdest part is getting to the fortress while enemy leaders idle on ~1400 gold. Once you can recruit placeholders, however, then forgetaboutit.


Showdown
The only way I finally figured out how to beat this was:

:droid 8 off
:control 8 Tallin

not sure which one did the trick. Anyway, this map is pretty much a "Save Hamel" map, but it was kinda fun once I wrested control. Without control, however, it would have required major West-centere,

User avatar
michote
Posts: 22
Joined: September 6th, 2008, 11:57 am
Location: Germany

Re: Northern Rebirth - Mainline

Post by michote » February 5th, 2009, 9:58 am

I'm playing the campiagn in 1.5.8 an nightmare (I'm on the showdown ...)

I found some strange behaviors

1. in the pursuit:
I tried to kill Malfidor with Camerin the first time, and he died without any message or ending the scenario (see and try my first save)

2. in the showdown:
the elvish army seems to be broken (2. save)
Attachments
WdN-Die_Entscheidungsschlacht-Autospeichern1.gz
showdown
(67.01 KiB) Downloaded 260 times
WdN-Die_Verfolgung_Runde_48b.gz
Killing Malfidor
(86.5 KiB) Downloaded 275 times
Ubuntu Hardy 8.04 | Zepto Znote 6615WD | T2400 | 2G Ram | GeForce 7600 Go
\\ Intrepid

HomerJ
Posts: 812
Joined: April 25th, 2008, 1:22 pm
Location: Hannover, Germany

Re: Northern Rebirth - Mainline

Post by HomerJ » June 23rd, 2009, 5:36 pm

michote wrote:I'm playing the campiagn in 1.5.8 an nightmare (I'm on the showdown ...)

I found some strange behaviors

1. in the pursuit:
I tried to kill Malfidor with Camerin the first time, and he died without any message or ending the scenario (see and try my first save)

2. in the showdown:
the elvish army seems to be broken (2. save)
Nightmare on 1.5.9
I lost the Avenger in the second to last scenario and startet with Elves in Showdown NOT controlling any villages OR be able to recall. Bug maybe.

Anyway, besides the AI moves taking so much time there was not that much of a problem though I startet with Tallin <400 Krash 600 and Anita 100 Gold. Hamels Dwarves cleared out a bunch of units from the fortifications and luckily every orc marched east afterwards so Mr Hamel was sitting in his keep deep negative in gold, but untouched. Of course I sent over a drake force to protect him but wasn't necessary. Orcs besieged Tallins camp for 30 turns (until their money was spend) and then I was able to sneak in from W and N to kill the leaders with leveled drakes.

Greetz
HomerJ

Edit: Problems with brain.exe. Memory failure.




Sorry for the double post, but edit doesn't bring up the topic again.

So, my problem is the following: I try to beat that campaign on nightmare (1.6.0) without the loyal units (see Campaign Challenges). So I suicide Zlex in scenario one and Camerin in two. After finishing clearing the mines, I begin the pursuit with Tallin (peasant... I know I know...) and two auto recalls, a longbowman and a half-leveled thunderer.
So there is no way ever to get past the two revenants in the beginning that block the entrance to the main chamber with your keep.
I'm not completely sure what could be done to avoid this, but I think a mainline campaign should be mangable even without a certain (non leader) unit. I mean, even if Tallin was a royal guard by that time, it would still be just chance to kill the two revenants.

Any thoughts? I'm currently playing on, by just sneaking past the two by debug change sides manners.

Greetz
HomerJ
Six years without a signature!

User avatar
Turuk
Sithslayer
Posts: 5283
Joined: February 28th, 2007, 8:58 pm
Contact:

Re: Northern Rebirth - Mainline

Post by Turuk » June 23rd, 2009, 7:11 pm

*Waves hand in front of HomerJ's face*

There was no double post.
Mainline Maintainer: AOI, DM, NR, TB and THoT.
UMC Maintainer: Forward They Cried, A Few Logs, A Few More Logs, Start of the War, and Battle Against Time

HomerJ
Posts: 812
Joined: April 25th, 2008, 1:22 pm
Location: Hannover, Germany

Re: Northern Rebirth - Mainline

Post by HomerJ » June 23rd, 2009, 8:15 pm

Turuk wrote:*Waves hand in front of HomerJ's face*

There was no double post.
I... think you are right... there was no double post.

Greetz
HomerJ
Six years without a signature!

Molean
Posts: 157
Joined: July 25th, 2009, 7:11 pm

Re: Northern Rebirth - Mainline

Post by Molean » August 1st, 2009, 7:41 pm

I've been playing this campaign on swordsman/difficult- 1.4.5.

The option of obeying the lich and switching sides but losing the game was great! :)

I have noticed in a few maps, with using certain strategies the map becomes very easy. If you don't use those strategies, its nearly impossible.

Some examples.

*Spoiler alert*
Spoiler:
Two last issues That I can think of. A number of maps say you need to win by "clearing the map" But this is not true (or even clear in its meaning) On some maps, it means defeating all the leaders. On at least one, it means defeating the main leader. On no map that says this, does it mean destroying every single enemy unit, which would be what you think it would mean.

You need dwarves for a number of latter maps after where you are no longer able to recruit them and must rely on calling them up from reserves. But you get no warning that you will no longer be able to recruit any more dwarves after X map. I think you should be able to continue recruiting dwarves.
Last edited by Molean on August 2nd, 2009, 4:03 am, edited 4 times in total.

User avatar
Kelben
Posts: 67
Joined: February 10th, 2009, 2:32 am
Location: Manila

Re: Northern Rebirth - Mainline

Post by Kelben » August 2nd, 2009, 1:07 am

And on what difficulty did you play the campaign?
-WAR- Wesnoth Allied Rebels

Post Reply