Northern Rebirth

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Northern Rebirth

Post by Development Team » July 4th, 2007, 8:40 pm

This is the main development thread for the mainline campaign Northern Rebirth. The original first post for this thread follows.
Taurus wrote:Since Much of the content in the old Northern Rebirth thread is now irrelevant, I am starting up this thread for the mainline version of Northern Rebirth. If you have any comments, suggestions, criticisms or other input, please post it here:


Also, for reference, you can find the old thread here:

http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic. ... 00&start=0

hagabaka
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Post by hagabaka » July 5th, 2007, 7:30 am

About the typechange issue I posted in http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic. ... 554#239554 , zookeeper found out that it's actually an error in Halberdier's unit cfg included with Wesnoth, and he'll fix it.
Here are some comments:
  1. The campaign seems to be designed so that most of the human units, especially human archers, are rarely useful. Most of the time I only used my royal guards and halberdiers for "shield" units at tough times, except the royal guard to whom I gave the rod of justice. I seldom recalled my woodsmen and archers after the second scenario, because the scenarios were packed with undead and trolls. Towards the end where there are more orc enemies, archers might be more useful, but they would never hold against high level enemies, and there are much better units available. I think there were probably a few points in the game where I could have upgraded archers, like To the Mines, Old Friend, and Settling Disputes, but unfortunately I didn't think of that when playing those scenarios. I think some of the earlier scenarios could be adjusted to overcome this, for example having more bats and orc grunts and less skeletons.
  2. In Get the Gold, it's strange that after recruiting a few units, Sisal would charge north, and attack instead of withdrawing even when she has 10 HP. She doesn't have enough gold to recruit after the second turn, so maybe that's her only choice. I had to be very aggressive and kill the orc leader as fast as possible to prevent her suicide attack. I know it's not necessary for her to survive, but it's annoying to see the AI do stupid things to make Princess Anita sad, and Sisal joins the last battle if she survives...Is this behavior your intention?
  3. Just a question: I read that the campaign used to have level 3 outlaws and a "dreadlich" and "demilich", but you took them off, but will add them back if they get into mainline? Is that true or outdated information?
Thanks for working on this campaign; it's been very enjoyable. I'll definitely play the other branch once it's finished.

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santi
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Post by santi » July 5th, 2007, 8:37 am

Don't Mainline campaign threads belong to Campaign Feedback?

Shadow
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Post by Shadow » July 5th, 2007, 2:06 pm

Hopefull not. One of the reasons I barely comment on mainline campaigns is that I don't want to wade though dozen threads for every single scenario while the problem isn't exclusive for one scenario.
... all romantics meet the same fate someday
Cynical and drunk and boring someone in some dark cafe ...
All good dreamers pass this way some day
Hidin’ behind bottles in dark cafes

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santi
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Post by santi » July 5th, 2007, 2:40 pm

?? I have not looked in all threads, but isn't there a "General discussion" thread, there e.g.

http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10613
-there you'll find apart from the scenarios.
"General discussion - for bugs, questions, ideas, problems, etc. "


Similarly, one could complain that in this forum one may expect to find
UMCs, not dozens of threads to mainline campaigns. At least that's what this forum is about "This forum is for discussion of development of new scenarios and campaigns for the game."

Shadow
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Post by Shadow » July 5th, 2007, 9:04 pm

santi wrote:?? I have not looked in all threads, but isn't there a "General discussion" thread, there e.g.

http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10613
-there you'll find apart from the scenarios.
"General discussion - for bugs, questions, ideas, problems, etc. "


Similarly, one could complain that in this forum one may expect to find
UMCs, not dozens of threads to mainline campaigns. At least that's what this forum is about "This forum is for discussion of development of new scenarios and campaigns for the game."
Typical case of tunnel vision. I thought they were removed.
... all romantics meet the same fate someday
Cynical and drunk and boring someone in some dark cafe ...
All good dreamers pass this way some day
Hidin’ behind bottles in dark cafes

Taurus
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Post by Taurus » July 6th, 2007, 6:26 pm

hagabaka wrote: About the typechange issue I posted in http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic. ... 554#239554 , zookeeper found out that it's actually an error in Halberdier's unit cfg included with Wesnoth, and he'll fix it.
Yeah, I think I beat him to it :-) It's all fixed now - thanks again.
The campaign seems to be designed so that most of the human units, especially human archers, are rarely useful. Most of the time I only used my royal guards and halberdiers for "shield" units at tough times, except the royal guard to whom I gave the rod of justice. I seldom recalled my woodsmen and archers after the second scenario, because the scenarios were packed with undead and trolls. Towards the end where there are more orc enemies, archers might be more useful, but they would never hold against high level enemies, and there are much better units available. I think there were probably a few points in the game where I could have upgraded archers, like To the Mines, Old Friend, and Settling Disputes, but unfortunately I didn't think of that when playing those scenarios. I think some of the earlier scenarios could be adjusted to overcome this, for example having more bats and orc grunts and less skeletons.
It's a good point. I'll definitely keep it in mind.
In Get the Gold, it's strange that after recruiting a few units, Sisal would charge north, and attack instead of withdrawing even when she has 10 HP. She doesn't have enough gold to recruit after the second turn, so maybe that's her only choice. I had to be very aggressive and kill the orc leader as fast as possible to prevent her suicide attack. I know it's not necessary for her to survive, but it's annoying to see the AI do stupid things to make Princess Anita sad, and Sisal joins the last battle if she survives...Is this behavior your intention?
Not quite. I tampered with the AI behavour in the latest SVN Commit, so she shouldn't be doing that anymore. Thanks for pointing this out.
Just a question: I read that the campaign used to have level 3 outlaws and a "dreadlich" and "demilich", but you took them off, but will add them back if they get into mainline? Is that true or outdated information?


Yes, it is true. If someone will be willing to maintain them I'll put them back in. For the outlaws, even if they are not in the mainline I'll consider adding them provided they are properly maintained.
Thanks for working on this campaign; it's been very enjoyable. I'll definitely play the other branch once it's finished.
Glad you like it :-) Thank you for all the feedback.
santi wrote:Don't Mainline campaign threads belong to Campaign Feedback?
I guess they do technically. I'll leave it up to the mods if they want to move it, but I personally am just fine having the discussion here. The idea is to get feedback, and I have been getting plenty of it here so...
Creater of the campaign, "Northern Rebirth"

Compleater of the campaign, "Son of the Black Eye"

hochbass
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Post by hochbass » July 6th, 2007, 10:43 pm

What a great campaign
In Easy Mode its like hard in HTTT.

Because oft orcs and Trolls this is a dwarv only campain.
in some critical scenarios you can only recruit one fortress so I have got 10+ L3 Dwarves and all party units (I lost the drake and the dwarv only)

Finaly now I stand against the orcish hords in the showdown.
First attemp had been a desaster.
Aggressiv forward of all my units lead to a slaughter of my elves an of all my poachers.

I must do it once more but how to choice a strategy?

This is what I will do

Humans: Recruit -beginning with lows Level 0 Woodsman and build a well armed forth
My spearman will block and may be I can advance some to swordsman
This is the most saving money strategy

Lich: This will become a "Junior Oger only" -Party.
whit massiv masses of 15Gold Units and good rotation I think this can withstand the pink army standing on hills an wood

Dwarves (AI controlled):
I think the dwarves will make me lose the scenario.
If they dont change there strategie they only makel suicide attacks standing on bad ground

Elves:
Seems they must rescue the dwarves
I recruit only L2 units
I send shwadrons containing 5- Elvish Heros, 5- Langbow 2- Elvish druids trough the would to the dwarvish mountains.
* Don´t know what they will think about this*

This should take a while. I think a turn had a delay of up to 20 min around turn 5-6 in my first time.

Lets have fun.

hagabaka
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Post by hagabaka » July 6th, 2007, 11:03 pm

hochbass:

On the easiest setting, all four "good" sides have 2000+ gold (maybe this could be different if you didn't take all of Malifor's gold), while all the orc leaders start with only a few hundred. The orcs recruit and swarm with high level units on the first few turns, but after that they'll have no income for a while. I'm actually just a few turns into the scenario too, but my plan is to let the elves stay within the forest, drakes stay close to camp, but be more offensive during day, and Tallin's camp stay mainly defensive, until the orcs stop outputing units. The AI-controlled dwarves seem to do fine; they lose a lot of units, but they also can always back up with enough to defend the their camp, if not more, and they're destroying orcs much faster than my teams (I hate to lose units and tend to fight conservatively).

Maybe the scenario is going very differently for you, but I still suspect that there will be no need to let the elves rescue the dwarves. It would probably make more sense to use drakes for that purpose anyway.

Also I recruited a lot, but there's still much gold left. I might need to restart and recruit even more next time to keep the units healthy.

Good luck :)

hochbass
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Post by hochbass » July 7th, 2007, 1:17 am

Drakes in truble
To recruit only troll welps and junior oggers - this was not a good idea .
The pink trolls have great fun. I hurry to recruit some mages.

My elves have only moved a little to west this had be ste start of a massiv attack of green leader. Still standing on wood and close together

My dwarves - thi dosn´t look very good. they have to fight against tree enemies and alreddy lost some villages and the frontline fortress in turn 6
I hope you are right.

ps: I had to wait nearly 3 hours until the start of turn 6
and 50min for turn 5
P4-2600 RAM:1024MB- WinXP

hagabaka
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Post by hagabaka » July 7th, 2007, 9:21 am

hochbass:
Troll welps and junior oggers? not sure what you're talking about...
I just beat the scenario. The AI dwarves did need a little help in the later turns, when they ran out of the gold and their defense was almost broken. They defeated most of the orcs nearby too, but some managed to get to their behind. I used a few drakes to help eliminate the threat, and after that, I was able to get into the orc fortress and finished in a few turns. Most of the time my strategy was just to defend my walls when enemies are swarming, and after they've ran out, lure the level 3 guards down one at a time.

Taurus:
To be honest, the last scenario isn't as enjoyable as the rest. I lost motivation a few times during the scenario. I wish you could make it shorter, with more variation, somehow. There was an advice for giving the orc guards traits, and I think that would make it a little more interesting. And I think the It could also make it easier to lure some of the guards if they have the quick trait. Also most of the other non-recruited units should have traits too (I think only Tallin has them currently).

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Darkest
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Post by Darkest » July 7th, 2007, 11:00 am

I've noticed an error in the scenario named "the Pursuit"
One of the gold boxes contains too much gold!

Code: Select all

[event]
	name=moveto
		[filter]
		x=9
		y=15
		side=1
		[/filter]
		[message]
		speaker=unit
		message= _ "1000 gold! Wow! Where is that bag of bones getting all this?"
		[/message]
		[gold]
		side=1
		amount=10151
		[/gold]
		[removeitem]
		x=9
		y=15
		[/removeitem]
	[/event]
I've enjoyed a lot your work
We came here from the holy forest of the true metal and the other eavy minerals. What do you want, my lord?
Oh, mighty proud true brave defenders from the holy forest of the true metal, we need true metal
And my lord, we will give you True Metal of Steel!

friar tuck
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Post by friar tuck » July 7th, 2007, 11:26 am

Darkest wrote:I've noticed an error in the scenario named "the Pursuit"
One of the gold boxes contains too much gold!
I'd rather say the message is missing a zero :P

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Darkest
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Post by Darkest » July 7th, 2007, 11:43 am

friar tuck wrote:
Darkest wrote:I've noticed an error in the scenario named "the Pursuit"
One of the gold boxes contains too much gold!
I'd rather say the message is missing a zero :P
Yes, maybe
We came here from the holy forest of the true metal and the other eavy minerals. What do you want, my lord?
Oh, mighty proud true brave defenders from the holy forest of the true metal, we need true metal
And my lord, we will give you True Metal of Steel!

hochbass
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Location: Germany

Post by hochbass » July 7th, 2007, 3:20 pm

hagabaka:
How can you recruit drakes?
The orange lich leader only can recruit oggers, mages and orcs. I do not have drakes!
My human can recruit some griphons .

I dont see a way to help the dwarfs because this Lich is under havy attac now.
Turn 8 - delay 1h10m -All units in combat now.

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