[Historical] Northern Rebirth Going Mainline

This is the place for discussing development of mainline campaigns, reporting bugs in them and providing overall feedback.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

General Mac
Posts: 8
Joined: April 18th, 2007, 6:28 pm
Location: Canada

Post by General Mac »

My bad. We must have been talking about two different scenarios I completed the Pursuit with just my thugs and recalled dwarves. Thought you meant clearing the mines :oops:
Go Canucks Go!

Shadow
Posts: 1264
Joined: September 9th, 2004, 10:27 am
Location: Following the steps of Goethe
Contact:

Post by Shadow »

Ok I made a campaign weekend and tried out the Northern Rebirth.
The first scenario looked like fun. BUT in the end I just keeped spamming woodman which ended in unpaid work. There was a similar level in The Dark Hordes with Walking corpes but with a stronger leader so you could actual make some tactical decisions and I could finish it in reasonable time. This is just ridicoulas.
His speech was in this unintentional funny because on every dead orc there were probably 5 peasants. (Excluding the troll he was more successfull)
Where we are about it. The Troll hole was especially nasty. Punishing a player for exploring the map. Not nice.


The next scenario looked more promising. The map is nice. The not so nice thing where the 6 enemies with the numerous amount of gold.
Same as the first unpaid work. How shall I take out 6 enemies with shokepoints where 20 trolls in a row wait to get slaughtered (I know I mustn't but this is just impossible). That are the bad things about Chokepoints the good ones are without them I would have gotten steam rolled. The enemy spams units like I peasants.
in the end I mostly spammed poachers and again no real tactic. :(
Some luck and some screaming moments I finally got to the dwarf cave. (The Ai doesn't recruits very well and no thunderer at all makes the whole thing more tricky)

Which leads to another point the hero is a sissy. How should I level a lv 0 hero with mainly a strong melee attack. What a suprise save loading all the way something that I really dislike.

Than some text again, nice story overall but I would have prefered an ingame story telling but this is personal taste.

The third scenario semed to come down to a normal level. Normal gold a party and one enemy. Nice.
Until he spammed lv 2 wolfs rider like no tommorrow.
Than my limit of agony was crossed.

The campaign had a good story so far and I know you want to emulate big battles with some intersting handicaps but this just goes to far and I played on easy.
... all romantics meet the same fate someday
Cynical and drunk and boring someone in some dark cafe ...
All good dreamers pass this way some day
Hidin’ behind bottles in dark cafes

Taurus
Inactive Developer
Posts: 674
Joined: May 4th, 2005, 8:16 pm
Location: Canada

Post by Taurus »

Hey Shadow,

Thank you for the feedback, but I must admit I have a bit of trouble understanding you at times. I'll do my best.

Oh, and by the way, with the introduction of the Woodsman, and then the Footpads in infested caves, this scenario is a bit out of ballance in places. I am working on it, but it's slow work - especially for the larger scenarios in this campaign. As it is, I think I replayed Infested Caves - from start to finish - about 4 times, and I am still not quite sure if I got it right yet...
The first scenario looked like fun. BUT in the end I just keeped spamming woodman which ended in unpaid work. There was a similar level in The Dark Hordes with Walking corpes but with a stronger leader so you could actual make some tactical decisions and I could finish it in reasonable time. This is just ridicoulas.
His speech was in this unintentional funny because on every dead orc there were probably 5 peasants. (Excluding the troll he was more successfull)
Where we are about it. The Troll hole was especially nasty. Punishing a player for exploring the map. Not nice.
Unpaid work :-S What do you mean by that? Do you mean that you had so many woodsmen that they didn't all have jobs? Well, simple solution - stop recruiting. move Tallin out of the keep and try to level him. As you know by now, he will need it in the scenarios to come.

About that speech - I removed it as a matter of fact. Didn't care much for it myself.

About the Troll Hole, yeah, it was a bit nasty wasn't it, but I am just a nasty person in general. Wait till you get to "The Pursuit".
The next scenario looked more promising. The map is nice. The not so nice thing where the 6 enemies with the numerous amount of gold.
Same as the first unpaid work. How shall I take out 6 enemies with shokepoints where 20 trolls in a row wait to get slaughtered (I know I mustn't but this is just impossible). That are the bad things about Chokepoints the good ones are without them I would have gotten steam rolled. The enemy spams units like I peasants.
in the end I mostly spammed poachers and again no real tactic. :-(
Some luck and some screaming moments I finally got to the dwarf cave. (The Ai doesn't recruits very well and no thunderer at all makes the whole thing more tricky)
The point of this (well, the new one anyway) is that you aren't supposed to be able to take out all the leaders. So don't even try and get on with finding the dwarves. And if you got through by simply spaming poachers, then I really think you are playing way below your skill level. Try spamming poachers on Hard or Insane and the undead will be using you to polish their bones in no time.
Which leads to another point the hero is a sissy. How should I level a lv 0 hero with mainly a strong melee attack. What a suprise save loading all the way something that I really dislike.
I made him Intelligent and Resilient for a reson. You wait till daytime, surround and weeken an enemy unit with your units and bring Tallin in for the finishing blow. I dislike save/loading myself, so I balance this scenario accordingly.
The third scenario semed to come down to a normal level. Normal gold a party and one enemy. Nice.
Until he spammed lv 2 wolfs rider like no tommorrow.
Than my limit of agony was crossed.
If you are looking for a run-of-the-mill 'normal' campaign here, then I suggest you stop playing right now, since this scenario is designed to be unique. So if you play further, expect to see a lot more tactical situations that you have never seen before.

And, this is a wolf patrol that Tallin is up against here, and in order to make it challanging, I let him recruit level 2 wolves. If it were simply a spam of wolf riders, then it would be far to easy. As it is, this is a quick easy scenario anyway so you shouldn't have too much trouble with it.
The campaign had a good story so far and I know you want to emulate big battles with some intersting handicaps but this just goes to far and I played on easy.
This is where I think your main problem is - you are playing far below your skill level. Of course it's going to be brainless and borring if you are a skilled player playing a level which is meant for newer players. Try playing it on Hard or Insane and I am sure it will turn out to be a lot more interesting.
Creater of the campaign, "Northern Rebirth"

Compleater of the campaign, "Son of the Black Eye"

Shadow
Posts: 1264
Joined: September 9th, 2004, 10:27 am
Location: Following the steps of Goethe
Contact:

Post by Shadow »

Well sorry I'll try to be clearer.

The first scenario. Is Ok and beatable. But I moved 50 peasants around and just spammed woodman. That's more than in some RTS I've played.
A over reaction probably after I've seen the Trolls running to my castle (the AI looks for the weakest enemy and that were my peasants.)
I could have used peasants to kill archers and woodman for the rest but in the end it was easier to spam woodman with the huge amount of money I had. Killing an orcish Warlord in a village is similar frustrating. I works but you'll need some time.

My suggestions are just reduce the money on both sides and tune down the levels of the leaders in the lower difficulties. Else the scenario takes just to long and takes away from the tactic and the feeling of the frantical peasants.

The second scenario. Sorry I spammed this guys Image (I play the german version that's why I did forget the english name :oops: )

I didn't restarted the scenario and worked though it with the misrecruits and the wrong first moves I did.
So that made a whole lot of units useless because of limited healing and the slow movement speed in the caves.
The thug might have been a good choice but he looses though his lower defense and no ranged attack so Footpads all the way. (My recall list was similar useless I could have recalled some archers and spearman but they weren't optimal in the cave area)
Again I would suggest some patches of dirt to help player with better defense areas and lower gold for you and the enemy. Perhaps one Oger enemy instead of a troll to break the monotony. Some patches of healing areas without gold income would be helpful too (For example magic some statues don't know how to call them to give the player more anchor points )

The dwarven player should be able to recruit some thunderes against the Trolls to give him some bite. He throwed just Guardsman and fighters away which made the fight stupid. On the other side the new ai seems to ignore the lv3 leaders. I found a death knight sitting in a village surrounded by dwarves who didn't attacked.:roll:
With the objective change you should make clear that you can't beat all enemies and remove the bonus aim. I felt cheated and frustrated because it was still there and I didn't know how to accomplish it.
I liked the cave the map was nice especially the dwarven part with the subterranean acre was a nice touch. It looked like a small dwarven city.
The appereance of the mage was quite funny but he moved though 10 trolls which looked somewhat stupid.


You might have tested this scenario various times but you did know what happens and you did know the map. I didn't know it. I could have restarted and I would have done better but I didn't wanted. So I was punished rather hard for my first mistakes.

The third sceanrio well I was a little bit nagged about the second and I just wanted something easy to come down and level some troops for worse times. As I saw his recruitment list I was a little bit nagged and didn't bother though I think it might be worth it to continue.

About the hero well I know it is prossible but it is quite risky.

Hope that helps to illustrate my points.
... all romantics meet the same fate someday
Cynical and drunk and boring someone in some dark cafe ...
All good dreamers pass this way some day
Hidin’ behind bottles in dark cafes

palloco
Posts: 136
Joined: April 3rd, 2004, 9:28 pm

Post by palloco »

I enjoyed a lot the introduction. But I am currently in second level and the slowness of the game is really frustrating. I need between 10-20 seconds to be able to move a unit. I attach a savegame to check if this happens only to me. The obvious approach to me was to fb and let trolls and undead fight alone, but this provokes that trolls take over the tunnels where undead spam and they become too powerful. If I have to recruit a big amount of units and fight the game wont be funny due to its slowness.
Attachments
Infested_Caves-Auto-Save5.zip
(61.84 KiB) Downloaded 510 times

jonadab
Posts: 148
Joined: October 7th, 2005, 2:33 am
Location: Ohio
Contact:

Post by jonadab »

Disclaimer: I'm using the lastest stable release of Wesnoth, and the latest version of the campaign on that campaign server, not the dev version one.
Taurus wrote:1: The storyline. Does reading up through the story in the first scenario catch your attention. If you don't feel like elabarationg, a simple yes/no will do.
The first time I fired up the campaign, I was definitely intrigued by and interested in the storyline. Not so much on subsequent plays, but that's what the Skip button is for.

I agree at least somewhat with the poster who said that it is the good storyline in HTTT that makes that campaign really stand out as a high-quality campaign. Sure, its storyline does have weak points -- it is fundamentally a game storyline, not a novel, so gameplay is always going to win out over plot when you have to make a compromise, so e.g. the weak ending, plot-wise, of the Valley of the Dead is warranted because many players would simply not be able to hold their army together for very many more turns, and because in any case it's pacing-wise time to move the game on to the next scenario. Nonetheless, the better you can make the storyline, the better.

Note that I'm NOT saying longer is necessarily better. Brevity is the soul of wit. My high school english teacher taught me the value of terseness, and sometimes by careful rewriting you really can say more with fewer words. Nonetheless, the tendency for game storylines is to go with something entirely too brief, along the lines of "Hey, look, evil bad guys are attacking, we must stop them/flee/hold out for n turns", which gets extremely old after about the fifth scenario in a row with fundamentally the same story element. (Eastern Invasion, for instance, suffers from this.)

I'm not saying the storyline in NR can't be improved, but I liked it better than average.

I also like most of the TROW storyline, FWIW.
Taurus wrote:2. Swarming orcs with peasants. People seem either to love it or hate it. I am seriousley consitering taking up Zookeeprs advice on the other thread to custom create a couple different types of peasants to keep things a little more interesting. Do you like it as it is? Do you think I should create 2 or three custom peasants? Or do you just absoloutley hate the whole idea of fighting orcs with peasants, and won't touch it even if your life depends on it?
As I mention in another thread (http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic. ... d7037e889e), I found myself (playing on normal difficulty level) having to develop an entire new strategy just for this level, unlike anything I've ever used in any of the mainline campaigns. IMO, that's a good thing. I needed rules of engagement, for crying out loud. I would be opposed to anything that would fundamentally weaken this, e.g. by introducing significantly stronger units. (I do think the dialog seems to promise a few decent weapons beyond the pitchforks, and it IMO should be rewritten to avoid this. In fact, why does the storyline say that the leader managed to secure some weapons? Perhaps it should just say some gold, or even just skip it and talk about being ready to rebell and sensing an opportunity when the other group of orcs attacked.)

Regarding Turin's comment that there were too many total units and it took a long time to play, it's got NOTHING on a couple of the scenarios in HTTT in that regard. Test of the Clan springs immediately to mind here, that takes FOREVER to play.

Slight variations on the peasant might be interesting, but I'm not sure. The peasants as they stand present an interesting tactical situation, namely, if you attack with their better attack (the melee attack), they sustain injury and get picked off more quickly, often by only one unit, which is tactically undesirable. But their ranged attack is weak, so you have to balance those considerations. If you could recruit units with a better ranged attack, it might fundamentally alter the required strategy.
Taurus wrote:3. The Introduction being too long. I myself am disinclined to shorten it, but if the overwelming majority thinks it should be shortended then I will. So, should the introduction be shorter - yes/no?
I really don't think I can answer that with a simple yes or no. I wouldn't want to see the story reduced in quality or depth, but if you can say what needs to be said in fewer words I would not be opposed to that.
Taurus wrote:4. Abruptly being able to recruit poachers and thugs. I am seriousley consitering doing something about this - exactally what I haven't decided yes. So, suggestions, comments or a simple "Yes I like it" or a "No, it's dumb".
Level 2 is hard enough *with* the poachers and thugs. Frankly it would be no walk in the park even if you could also recruit footpads. It would have to be completely redone, from a playability perspective, if you had to work with just peasants and the few units you've been able to advance. Besides that, a repeat of level 1 is not what's wanted for level 2.

I think the worst thing about the poachers and thugs, from the perspective of this campaign and this level, is that they're called "poachers" and "thugs", which doesn't entirely fit with the storyline. What you've got, from a storyline perspective, is a peasant uprising that's now got some cudgels and bows. But from a playability perspective, they really are the units you want.

Either that or you could develop custom units, lvl 1 humans with the same movetype as poachers and thugs but captured orc weapons -- so, roughly the same attacks as orcish archers and thugs. But that sounds like a whole lot of work, especially in sprites and animations, and then you'd have to rebalance the whole campaign too.

You *could*, I suppose, start allowing the player to recruit bowmen and spearmen at this point. Presumably most players have advanced at least one or two peasants and so have seen both of those options (even if they haven't chosen both yet), so it might seem less sudden. But those units are not as good in caves, or against skellies (compared to thugs), so again you'd have to rebalance level 2 at least, if not the whole rest of the campaign.

I tend to think that storyline, while important, does have to take a backseat to gameplay when there's a conflict between them. If (as I believe) poachers and thugs are the units you want here in terms of gameplay (especially among _human_ units, and it would be much harder on the storyline to step outside of that), then my tendency is to say keep those units and explain it as best you can. Perhaps say something in the dialog near the end of level 1 (when you kill the green leader perhaps) about capturing some bows from the orcs, wow, these will really help our cause, let's train ourselves to use them after this battle. That still doesn't explain why your new bow-wielding recruits are called "poachers", but OTOH maybe that's a pretty minor nitpick after all in the scheme of things.
Taurus wrote:About the Troll Hole, yeah, it was a bit nasty wasn't it, but I am just a nasty person in general. Wait till you get to "The Pursuit".
Actually, having the ability to unleash a bunch of trolls is in some ways a kindness to the player in this scenario. It's strictly optional, and if the player inadvertently unbalances blue-versus-green too much, letting the trolls provides another way to let an enemy do some of your fighting for you. I found that if I played properly I didn't need it, but having the option is nice.

Also, anybody who didn't at least half expect something unpleasant to pop out of that hole either hasn't played the mainline scenarios or doesn't learn. Exploring map features of that kind, sometimes you find a friendly white mage with a holy sword, and sometimes you unleash a vampire queen.

Regarding levelling Tallin: playing on "normal" difficulty level, I didn't have a problem (once I understood the strategic issues of the level). As long as he gets the final blow on either of the orc leaders, he's level 1 by the end of level 1.

I did get a bit frustrated on level 2, because each time I thought I had come to a better understanding of the needed strategy, I had to go back and play it from the beginning, only to find out a little further into the level that my new strategy is not going to work either. Each time I got a bit furthen than before I found out new things I didn't know at first about how things are on this level, both in terms of the map and the enemies. Not just details, mind you, but things that have a major impact on strategy from turn 1. Not just where the enemies are, but how numerous (WAY beyond what I expected for the second level of a campaign), and, in one case, the fact that light brown and light grey won't fight each other.

I'm not sure how, but if some of that could be hinted at a bit better in the intro or turn-1 dialog, it mightn't be a bad idea.
I write Bible School materials:
http://bibleschoolmaterials.blogspot.com/

daedalos
Posts: 2
Joined: June 13th, 2007, 10:08 pm

Infested Caves to difficult

Post by daedalos »

Hi there!

While all this may already have been reported, I just wanted to give you some more feedback.

I downloaded version 1.3.3 today to try out some of the new campaigns (the last stable version I played was 1.0.2). I liked the thing about the peasants revolting (after all I'm really glad that Liberty made it into mainline), so I gave Northern Rebirth a try.

I played as a Spearman (challenging). The first scenario was nice. I had to swarm the orcs to bring them down but with them fighting each other as well I got my chances. I also liked the twist with the troll cave. Usually if there is a special feature on the map you just walk over there and collect your reward. Tough luck here :twisted: But I managed to take them out one by one and they even killed a few orcs for me.

The second scenario "infested caves" is nearly impossible for me on this difficulty level. I restarted three times.
1. I took the ruins in the great cave in the middle and tried to find the dwarves. I was constantly attacked by three enemies (trolls from the right, 2 undeads from the left, later 2 trolls from the left). Finally I ran out of money and took my last remaining troops to the north-east (the only route not blocked) where I hoped to find the dwarves. I reloaded when I realized there were just a few villages.
2. I took a defensive position at the starting point (foodpads against undead to the east, poachers against trolls to the south) and tried to break trough with a mass of poachers to the blue leader in the north (I had read something about an archmage waiting for me). I witnessed the troll king in the east and the orange undead leader killing each other :D
In the end I lost my blockade to the south and was swarmed by the undead (white and black) from the east, without being able to break through in the north.
3. Same approach as 2. I rushed to the north in the beginning but still did not make it to the archmage before the trolls blocked the tunnel. I was not able to fight my way through. In the south my defences held but in the east the trolls probably killed the white undead leader and then attacked me with their level 2 and 3 units.

I made out several reasons why I could not accomplish the scenario:
- I had to defend to three sides while my opponents all had very good defensive positions with enough villages to maintain an army to block the approach.
- In the small tunnels its quality not quantity. I had lots of money but i could not recall any level 2 units, so I was stuck with recruits. Foodpads do a good job against the undead but there was no real match for the trolls. I tried poachers but this was something of a 50:50 chance and it took them too long to level (with healing in-between).
- So the enemies I'm concerned about are the trolls. Their units can reach level 3 while mine can only reach level 2.
- I could not reach any help without taking out a major enemy first. Past blue trolls to get to the archmage or past brown trolls to get to the dwarves.
- My hero is a peasant. I usually don't fight too much with my heroes but at least I like them to have a special ability (leadership?).
Furthermore, I found the trap door, leading from the orange undead's cavern to the green troll leader. That's nice to take him out later.

I think you can balance this scenario a lot by reducing the amount of money the AI starts with or by reducing the villages in their defensive positions. When I could finally see the cavern of the blue player, nearly every hex was occoupied by a troll welp :shock:
It would also help if the dwarves would act more offensively (at least keeping two of the 6 AIs busy).
I am aware that I did not play on the easiest difficulty, but I made it through all the official campaigns in 1.0.2 on normal, so I think this difficulty should be beatable for me.

I also experienced a technical annoyance: After some about 2 hours of playing, the game slowed down for no obvous reason. It took me up to 10 seconds to move a single unit. I could avert this by exiting and restarting my computer it's not supposed to work this way, eh? :?

So, keep the good work going, i'd like to try Northern Rebirth again with the next stable release!

garak
Posts: 28
Joined: March 27th, 2007, 5:32 am
Location: china

Post by garak »

For a walkthrough the scenario this will maybe help you
http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic. ... highlight=

Angry Andersen
Posts: 205
Joined: September 15th, 2006, 1:22 pm

Post by Angry Andersen »

I think most of this has been said before, but here in brevity:
- poachers against trolls, thugs (& footpads, if dev. version) against skeletons
- you are fighting more for space than for units on this level. Advance towards the N & S trolls as quickly as possible! Breaking them is all about getting past the first choke point (N:Getting the Mage, S:Getting into the cavern with the Villages)
- do NOT advance towards the east, just defend your position if necessary

With some luck this should work pretty well. After that it becomes easier.

jjongsma
Posts: 10
Joined: September 15th, 2006, 4:47 pm

First impressions

Post by jjongsma »

My impression is that it's got some really creative aspects to it (Infested Caves and The Pursuit are two of the most interesting scenarios I've ever played, once you find the right strategy), but it tries too hard to be an epic and gets boring rather quickly.

I think there are too many scenarios where you rely on swarms and swarms of baddies, making it a boring exercise in attrition, or just a lost cause (if you took too long on previous scenarios and/or didn't save enough gold). In some scenarios (like the two I mentioned), the scenario design compensates for it, and makes it truly interesting and possible to win without swarms of units, but one scenario after another of epic battles just gets old.

A great start - I had very high hopes for it after the first few scenarios (although the first one annoyed me a bit as well), but overall, I feel it needs more strategy and less brute force to be a great campaign.

saskganesh
Posts: 35
Joined: April 11th, 2005, 7:11 am

Post by saskganesh »

palloco wrote:I enjoyed a lot the introduction. But I am currently in second level and the slowness of the game is really frustrating. I need between 10-20 seconds to be able to move a unit. I attach a savegame to check if this happens only to me. The obvious approach to me was to fb and let trolls and undead fight alone, but this provokes that trolls take over the tunnels where undead spam and they become too powerful. If I have to recruit a big amount of units and fight the game wont be funny due to its slowness.
I had slowness on levels 2 and 4. possibly related to number of units on screen? I would change graphic options, save and reload, but generally I just persevered, killed and was killed and both tiems it started moving better again.

I had no problems on levels 1,3,5.
Last edited by saskganesh on June 15th, 2007, 5:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

saskganesh
Posts: 35
Joined: April 11th, 2005, 7:11 am

Post by saskganesh »

I like this campaign, as its a big maps and many units type treatment, but to be enjoyable you have to be in the mood and have the time and stamina to grind through the big fights.

played this last year, and came back to it just now. the addition of the woodsmen made the first scenario much more interesting to me. more variety and more tactical options. I do like the concept of levelling up an army from basically nothing. by level 5, my leader had gone from peasant to swordsman, I was so proud. :wink:

too many units? 50-60 units is about what I need to win a level, though I could do it with a bit less I suspect. whatever, I like reserves.

the warg level (lvl 3?) really breaks things up nicely. a short battle, yay.

bug: level 5 playing on 1.33, after 60 or so turns, and clearing the map except for the spiders, I finally kill the lich, fulfilling the victory conditions.

and the scenario does not end.

otherwise lvl 5 (Pursuit) is very interesting though. I like the map, the lack of villages. challenging.

another bug: first time on level 2, I made some bad choices and so got to the dwarves too late. then they were all dead. I had almost cleared the level but realised only then I couldn't win. well that sucked.

suggestion: have the player meet a single, wounded dwarf earlier, who will say his people are in big touble and are located in the SE and you gotta get there before they are overwhelmed.

so then if the dwarves are elminated, the player should get a message and the game will end. but at least there was fair warning and a few hours of gameplay has been saved.

saskganesh
Posts: 35
Joined: April 11th, 2005, 7:11 am

Post by saskganesh »

ps: I was playing on the easiest skill level. gold obviously was never an issue.

Dare2
Posts: 4
Joined: June 26th, 2007, 11:54 am

Post by Dare2 »

Okay, absolute newbie to wesnoth here.

My version of wesnoth is 1.2.4 (shown in small print at the bottom left of the screen).

If you are still looking for feedback and a newcomer's opinions count (especially with possibly the wrong or outdated versions of wesnoth and the campaign) then:

I am playing at the easiest level.

The initial storyline and implied concept (rebellion) grabbed my attention. I like it.

Breaking the chains - The idea of using just peasants (with sufficient cash to pump them out and sufficient villages around to keep up the flow) was different and fun.

The mine that triggered trolls (whelps or whatever) was a nasty suprise but a good idea - I liked it!

The scenario then became too long. I knew I was going to win (barring any other suprises like the mine but there were no other suprises that I found) so now it became a click and move task until pinning the leaders in the mountains and using waves of more-or-less suicide attacks nailed them.

The Infested Caves was very interesting and took several attempts before I found the dwarves. (I thought the skeleton dwarves were all I was going to find and that I needed to defeat everything in there by myself).

Once the dwarves were found it was easy enough. I was holed up in the trolls cavern near were the mad mage was found (having wiped them) and had the other trolls fighting skeletons whilst defending the tunnel and building up units. Before triggering the landfall into the white skeleton area to make a diversion for the dwarves. I had, BTW, wiped out the trolls nearest the dwarves entrance so they managed to (a) get those villages and churn out fighters and (b) were not bottlenecked so could flow out ad-infinitum.

Nicely mapped dwarven home area, BTW.

But it then it became slugfest and the interest levels went down at bit.

I am now stuck in Clearing the Mines. I go in with 1200 plus gold and get whipped each time. Have tried several ways. Can never get to a point where enough income is generated to produce new units fast enough to replace destroyed (or zombie-converted) units.

I don't want to go back and wade through all those long scenarios again in order to come in with sufficient gold to pump out an overwhelming force and haven't yet discovered any triggers. Also this would then become just another slugfest.

So ....

In general: Nice idea, nice storyline (I like context to games), and interesting enough that I have tried each new scenario several times to win (but I may give up at Clearing the Mines).

Big Scenarios: Can you create some way to shorten them once the game is won? They take newbies like me ages.

BTW: The version I am using does the sudden Thugs/Poachers thing and this did not detract from the game. I assumed the peasants had grabbed available scrap and made themselves some crude weapons and that the promoted/recallable units had scavanged armour and weapons from dead grunts.

Ignore this post if it is too late or too silly. :D

User avatar
santi
Lord of Wesmere
Posts: 1320
Joined: April 6th, 2004, 12:32 pm

Post by santi »

On Infested caves, has this been playtested on hard?
There is a walkthrough and Eleazar outlined a strategy, but I do not think it works on hard. I also tried this, but after I clear the north trolls, there is a door with just more undead....
I have no problem holding north and south with 3-4 rotating units at the chokepoints. I also get the mage quickly to the main front. The problem is that the undead arrive in force near my keep(it is advantageous to fight near the keep), as I can rotate units and send to the nearby villages for healing, while further east there are no villages until the main opening and there you stand no chance. The point is that the undead keep on coming in hordes: I can hold, but pushing east is out of question, as one quickly gets too many losses to continue. A couple of villages or a pinch point limiting the flux of undead east, or more turns might help
, but I really think the enemy has way too much gold on hard.
So again, has this been playtested on hard?

Locked