Descent into Darkness

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akratic
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Re: Undead campaign: Descent into Darkness

Post by akratic » June 25th, 2009, 5:30 am

There is a bug in Alone at Last. If a unit steps on the most upper left point on the map, he will get the book. If you do this fast enough, there will be two books: one if your hand, and one in the hands of Darken Volk. You can win the scenario with this bugged copy of the book.

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Robert
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Re: Undead campaign: Descent into Darkness

Post by Robert » September 13th, 2009, 10:11 am

I have enjoyed this campaign quite a lot. I started it because I wanted to try my hand with undead units.

It seems however that this campaign was updated after the walktrough. I found two discrepancies so far.

In A Small Favor - Part One, the enemy leader did not recruit at all, even though my units were discovered by a spearman, and even though I attacked him in his castle. It seems like he has been programmed to not recruit.

In Alone at Last, I found that Dela was invincible. That is confirmed by an earlier post in this thread, but not mentioned in the walktrough. I also found that Cadaeus was a good deal stronger than Darken Volk, so I really needed Darken Volk to focus his attention on Cadeus, not on me. My solution was to recall only a couple of flyers at start, and use these to take villages while staying out of sight so as to not draw Darken Volks units to attack me. When Cadaeus appeared I started recalling/recruiting in earnest, and then went after the book. Darken Volk would invariably leave his camp to attack Cadaeus, and thus the book would appears in the middle of the fight. I was barely able to attack Cadaeus, take the book with Malik and escape with him back to the castle, but it cost me a lot of good units. I should probably have recruited expendable units instead of recalling, but I'll see if I can manage Descent into Darkness with what I have left, and redo Alone at Last if necessary.

It is a good campaign, with a lot of variation, but I think the walktrough should be updated.

Edit: I should mention that I started the campaign on Normal - the save says difficulty="EASY" - and I use 1.6.4

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Deusite
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Re: Undead campaign: Descent into Darkness

Post by Deusite » September 13th, 2009, 3:36 pm

It's a wiki, so you're free to change that, just as long as you register. Someone is revising all the walkthroughs anyway, lotsofphil I think. I'm sure nobody would mind people updating the wiki :wink:
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Robert
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Re: Undead campaign: Descent into Darkness

Post by Robert » September 13th, 2009, 3:52 pm

Deusite wrote:It's a wiki, so you're free to change that, just as long as you register. Someone is revising all the walkthroughs anyway, lotsofphil I think. I'm sure nobody would mind people updating the wiki :wink:
OK, I have updated the text for Alone at last.

batoonike
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Re: Descent into Darkness

Post by batoonike » April 30th, 2011, 9:50 am

Don't know if the creator of the core storyline is still here (or already descent into darkness) but did you consciously use "Hero's Journey" on the storyline? It looks awfully lot like that! And is great campaign :)
Hero's Journey: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monomyth

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Re: Descent into Darkness

Post by WanderingHero » May 30th, 2011, 3:24 pm

batoonike wrote:Don't know if the creator of the core storyline is still here (or already descent into darkness) but did you consciously use "Hero's Journey" on the storyline? It looks awfully lot like that! And is great campaign :)
Hero's Journey: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monomyth
I had wondered if this was meant to be a twisted version of it....


Anyway I dug this campaign but agree it needs a bit more polish. Malin mood swings erratically. Is this bad writing (in an otherwise great campaign) , a bi polar disorder (i read Malin's post and it makes sense...), Necromancy screwing with his soul, or some combination of the above?
As I said in the feedback thread, why was Malin kicked out (you find out later and I still wonder if that was worth expelling him)? Why is Necromancy so taboo, that it will get you kicked out even if you use it to save lives? Why doesn't Malin's sister speak up for him? A prologue would have been good, explaning things and make us bond with the characthers. Also something unclear throughout the campaign, is the use of Necromancy slowly corrupt Malin's mind or is it because he was exiled and bitter?
What was your intent with Malar? People say he was supposed to be unlikable, but I found him sympathetic. I saw him as a hot tempered boy(probably more so after his father died), shunned, then exiled from his town without much explanation, who ultimately meant well and just wanted to protect people from marauding invaders. Even at his worse, he never attacked anyone except in self defense. He was foolish, but at any point was he really evil? I mean orcs just seem like a mindless killing race in Wesnoth, and if people had just left him be, he would have done them a lot of good.
Also why is Necromancy evil? Does it corrupt the mind? Or is it just taboo? Though a friend of mine did argue it was akin to slave labour (and it was a little humorous that I defened it, right before I got the event where the ghost turns on you.... but then even if the souls are suffering, after the 3rd level, most of Malin's undead will be orcs, and they just seem to be a killbot race in Wesnoth.
What was with the guy who was mentoring you and the dark adepts you got later? Did he really mentor you just to get the book? I mean he spent months and months training Malar and helping him fight orcs. And what about the others? We're their other people apart from Malar using "dark" magic to crusade against orcs?
Was this campaign trying to give a specific message or just trying to do something different?
Even still I like it, and find it wonderfully thought provoking.

Gameplay wise i found the 2nd level a bit frustrating (I didnt think to use ghouls though...), and found the rest of campaign could generally be done just by having Wraith/Spectres rush everything to death, though I was playing on easy (was my first intermediate campaign). Was still fun, and a great introduction to the undead.

batoonike
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Re: Descent into Darkness

Post by batoonike » July 14th, 2011, 3:31 am

Necromancy is not cool for medieval people because after you die you are supposed to be left alone to chill and take your time as a dead person. Not to be pulled back to life as rotten corpse to do dirty slave tasks :annoyed:

The guy who trained Malin (I believe?) wanted the book because the book was like the "ultimate boon". It had instructions how to become lich, which is pretty important stuff if you are a necromancer. The months of training and traveling around are not that high price for the book at all.

Now that you point the wraith-spectre rush out, it is indeed a bit ghost centered campaign. Didnt really need much else. Though you can also do something similar with hordes of adepts, once you get to reqruit them.

luckmanraharja
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Re: Descent into Darkness : ERROR : My Ancient Lich can not

Post by luckmanraharja » September 24th, 2011, 8:02 pm

well
Hi all, I am Luckman and very new here.

One funny thing. I upgraded my caracter to Ancient lich and .. the enemy does not attack my hero..

Welll..
Here is the URL :). I found this one very interesting :)

I use 1.9.3
http://www.bajubatik.org/gambar/DiD-End ... _replay.gz

Thank you

ScegfOd
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Re: Descent into Darkness

Post by ScegfOd » September 27th, 2011, 3:48 am

My suicide run to see the 'epilogue' from those two random guys seems to have failed.
I could've tried harder i suppose, but after leveling up I figured that trying to win would be fun :P

The AI seems to be a bit cautious when it comes to using a zerg rush against a life draining village camping ancient lich....
I didn't even have to reload or anything :D

edit: attached replay
Attachments
MAL_KESHAR.zip
LUCKHAX?!
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Ranger
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Re: Descent into Darkness

Post by Ranger » August 23rd, 2013, 1:11 pm

Rise an old and dusty thread! Rise and serve once again your true master! Muahhahahahah! :twisted:
Why the development of this story is being neglected? There is still much work to do! I saw some very interesting ideas dusting back in the prevous pages.
Like why after Malin has lost his army of undead in the terrible battle with orcs he still can recall all of his 3lvls?
Or why the transformation into lich did not enhanced his power? Something has to be done with this.
I would clear the recruit list at the start of 10th scenario (so the player would not bother saving their veterans is the showdown with the DarkenVolk) to show that Malin lost everything in the previous battle. But wouldnt it make this scenario more difficult? No, because he will have these "awesome powers of the spirit world" like the book sad. He will be able to recruit 2lvl units together with normal ones (like in the AoH). We can often see how powerful necromancer can raisestronger than usual undead warriors. Why not him?
p.s. Add some mushrooms in the corridor with the bats so our terrible lich will not die mauled to death (real one this time) after all the crap he's been through. :augh:

EDIT:
Btw, what does developers say about the canonicity of IfTU? If its legit - we cannot let him die at the hands of some foolish hero. :whistle:
Calling a spear a spoon and then saying "our spoons are different, WINR," is kind of unsatisfying, isn't it?

Marcgal

Re: Descent into Darkness

Post by Marcgal » December 31st, 2014, 1:20 am

May I post an idea to expand the story of this campaign a very little bit?

As of now, one is obligated to go at least once through the final scenario Endless Night to win the campaign, but may play it as many times as he wishes.

Well, my idea is to make it obligatory to beat this scenario twice - with the second time being a special, modified, grand finale version of the scenario.

Here go the details:

During this scenario, the enemy would not be a random Foolish Hero - but instead Mal Keshar would face Dela for the last time. The idea is that Dela, after the fall (to the Orcs) of her beloved home village Parthyn, having heard of Mal's murders, would dedicate her life to at least hunt him down and kill him. She would bring in a sizey group of adventurers of all kinds (including Orcs, justification below) and attacks Mal in his cave. And would finally be killed by her brother.

I think that such addition would contribute well to the story (adding the final fratricidal fight would mix well with the overall dark tone of the story and show to what evils did Malin actually descend, while providing some more information about Dela's fate, which is not present now; moreover, I have feeling that making Dela some sort of a "tragic hero" would also fit well).

Sorry for not being perfect with English — I know, all dialogues, descriptions I put here definitely need some improvements... They're just examples, waiting to be corrected :)

Scripting:

Story text — with no changes

Initial dialogue:

Dela Keshar: So finally I've found you, foul lich! I will free all poor spirits you keep here enslaved and put an end to your crimes and wrongdoings here and now!
Mal Keshar: What? You, sister? For the last time, you're wrong! I have never allied myself with orc — why, I've been fighting them for all of my life, by any means necessary! Turn back now, foolish sister, and stop disturbing me at last, or you will share their fate.
Dela Keshar: You will not earn my mercy with such pathetic excuses, foul lich! Prepare to return to where you really belong — to the world of the dead!

Dela recruits an orc:

Mal Keshar: What?! Orcs! And you have the nerve to call anyone a traitor, sister! Now you'll never escape from me — I won't stop until I finally weed out every single one of you scum!
Dela Keshar: As the village finally got overridden, there is no point for me to pursue a lost cause any more. But I can at least free the world of you. The undead are a menacing all of the living, striving to shroud the whole wide green world in death — and hence I feel all of the living should put aside their differences and conflicts and unite against this common enemy. I have painfully learned to see a little bit more than only my hometown, and that there are far worse felons than any human or orc can be — and those like you are definitely among the most dangerous ones!
Mal Keshar: Very well, then! You've never been my sister if you ally yourself with this orcish scum! So I have no constraints to kill you and make you serve me for the whole eternity. Come, come to me, come to your death!
Dela Keshar: You stopped being my brother at the very moment you became this kind of abomination! I've spent a whole year to find you out and assemble a party to take you down, and I won't turn back now that I'm so close to finishing this!

Mal Keshar Dies: (the dialogue has intended similarities to the "regular" one):

Dela Keshar: Well, that is the end of his evil ways.
Killing Unit: He actually was your brother, before falling into the evil ways that led him to today. I wonder if you have any compassion for him?
Dela Keshar: Once he chose this unlife for himself and his soldiers, he forfeited any claim to our compassion. Does it even matter who he was?
Killing Unit: No, I suppose not.

Dela Keshar Dies (and the campaign is won, though the player can play further, "normal" repetitions of the scenario if he chooses so):

Dela Keshar: I have failed both my goals... to protect my home and to free the world of this lich. I have failed my life...
Mal Keshar: You have failed your life indeed, and I'm going to make sure you feel it. I'll have the whole eternity for this!
Dela Keshar: Unless some other, more successful hero comes and puts an end to you. Mark my words, those like you hardly ever live up to their delusions of eternal life...

Dela's stats:

Dela will have units of all of the Foolish Heroes available to her. She will have a fixed amount of 600 (easy) / 800 (medium) / 1000 (hard) gold.

She'd be forced to recruit at least one lv. 2 orc of any type available at turn 1, to show the dialogue right at the beginning of turn 2. All of her other recruitment would be random, to prevent her from starting with only chaotic units and to show the diversity of her team. 2/3 of the units would be at lv. 2, the rest at lv. 1.

Dela will no longer be a Frontier Baroness in this scenario — instead, she will become a Lich Hunter.

Lich Hunter's in-game description:

Some of the heroes and heroines of Wesnoth dedicate their life to cleanse the world of the undead menace, taking pity on the fate of enslaved spirits and viewing the dead as the common enemy of all of the living. And they're geared well for this task — they always bring some Holy Water with them, pouring it on their weapons before the battle. They also wear some holy amulets, to protect them against the evil magic of their adversaries. They become known as the Lich Hunters, noting those who they strive to eliminate.

Stats:

Level: 3
Advances From: Frontier Baroness
Cost: 70
Movement: 7
Alignment: Neutral
Abilities: Skirmisher
HP: 64

Attacks:

Blessed Staff (melee, arcane) 13-2 Sprite: quarterstaff, but white and with an added halo
Net (ranged, impact, slows) 8-3 Sprite: net

Resistances:

60% Cold and Arcane resistance, other resistances as of the Frontier Baroness

Terrain movement costs and defenses: as of the Frontier Baroness

Does this look possible?

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zookeeper
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Re: Descent into Darkness

Post by zookeeper » December 31st, 2014, 7:42 am

I wouldn't be opposed to having Dela show up as a hero, but I don't think it'd work to have her recruit orcs or add anything if she became some kind of a dedicated lich hunter; the orcs would be rather confusing and hard to explain in a few lines of dialogue, and her seeking him out in the first place would be enough to show how determined she is. Of course, she could have holy water or similar, have undead-countering units and otherwise be a tough opponent.

I've never really considered the fact that you never see Dela again to be a loose end that needs to be tied down, so I don't really think the encounter needs to happen on the second iteration or even in any fixed position. It could work even better as a bit of an easter egg by having her appear after 4+ repetitions... although arguably then the campaign probably would be seen as not truly being finished until you've made it at least that far.

Konrad2
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Re: Descent into Darkness

Post by Konrad2 » June 29th, 2015, 5:29 pm

“Return to Parthyn”
no advisor has been created to speak with → crippled dialogue
after Drogan has been killed Malin speaks twice (I have the feeling that someone should say something in between, though there is nothing like that in the code)

when I complete the bonus objective I win the scenario

“A small Favour 3 “
there is no way to know that you lose when Darken Volk leaves first (when he grabbed the book)

“Alone at Last”
no advisor has been created to speak with → crippled dialogue

a bug that Darken Volk goes into a village and stays happens to me too

“Descent into Darkness”
no advisor has been created to speak with → crippled dialogue

“Endless night”
There is an early finish bonus. But there is no turn limit.
I am a Ghost: I drain the life energy from other people to survive and am hated/feared by regular people. Non-regular people don't like me either though.

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JakeCWolf
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Re: Descent into Darkness

Post by JakeCWolf » February 1st, 2016, 5:28 am

"A Haunting in Winter"
Your main enemy is Bandits instead of Dwarves. Is this suppose to represent the Knalgan Alliance? I swore in 1.9-1.10 version of this had only Dwarves as enemies, no bandits, so the decision to change this baffles me.

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zookeeper
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Re: Descent into Darkness

Post by zookeeper » February 1st, 2016, 8:31 am

JakeCWolf wrote:"A Haunting in Winter"
Your main enemy is Bandits instead of Dwarves. Is this suppose to represent the Knalgan Alliance? I swore in 1.9-1.10 version of this had only Dwarves as enemies, no bandits, so the decision to change this baffles me.
No, it hasn't really ever changed: outlaws on the west side, dwarves on the east side.

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