Dunefolk Rework - Unit Naming

For writers working on documentation, story prose, announcements, and all kinds of Wesnoth text.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Post Reply
User avatar
josteph
Developer
Posts: 738
Joined: August 19th, 2017, 6:58 pm

Re: Dunefolk Rework - Unit Naming

Post by josteph » May 31st, 2019, 11:38 am

It's relatable, yes. That's precisely the problem: it has real-world connotations...

I've been trying to think not about Persian-themed names but about desert-themed names in general.

How about Dune Soldier, Dune LVL2, Dune LVL3? The lore for LVL2 would be someone who's famous within a relatively smaller circle of dunefolk (let's say, one band/town, or the vicinity of one oasis), a battle-scarred tactician who's looked up to. The LVL3 would be a figure that's renowned by dunefolk in other towns too. I'm not sure what the units should be called. (I'm putting LVL2 on the table too because I think lvl2 and lvl3 should be named in the same theme, as a progression. I like the name "Captain", mind you, but maybe we'll come up with a good idea for lvl3 that's not a progression from "Captain".)

So maybe Soldier/Captain/Prince? The type description could say that "Prince" is just a translation, because dunefolk speak among themselves in a different language than other humans. I'm not sure if "Captain" captures the "battle-scarred tactician" sense I'm after, though... :hmm:

Caladbolg
Posts: 195
Joined: January 1st, 2016, 4:40 pm
Location: Hopelessly trapped within the Submachine

Re: Dunefolk Rework - Unit Naming

Post by Caladbolg » May 31st, 2019, 2:02 pm

Naga names: I prefer Slasher over Stabber. Dervish has the right associations: frenzied, whirling dancing would fit the naga unit in question; but technically the definition is ways off from the unit.
Captain lvl3: we've been over it too many times already. The consensus was that lvl3 is Dune Lord/General/Emir. I personally don't mind Emir, but that's about as far as people seem to be willing to go in regards to arab-sounding names. If we don't go with Emir, it has to be either Lord or General (I prefer Lord). We're kinda beating the dead horse already.

User avatar
Pentarctagon
Forum Administrator
Posts: 4057
Joined: March 22nd, 2009, 10:50 pm
Location: Earth (occasionally)

Re: Dunefolk Rework - Unit Naming

Post by Pentarctagon » May 31st, 2019, 5:48 pm

What about Soldier > Tactician > Emir? That would also have the benefit of not re-using existing unit names like (Elvish) Captain or (Dwarvish) Lord.
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code

User avatar
Edwylm
Posts: 165
Joined: August 24th, 2015, 11:18 pm

Re: Dunefolk Rework - Unit Naming

Post by Edwylm » May 31st, 2019, 7:37 pm

could use chieftain or headman to replace captain and commander or prince for the level 3

Tactician doesn't sound that great within the line it be more like Strategist to Tactician

i like the chieftain to prince as it can blend both nomadic and civilization aspect of their lore along with it can be related to real life aspects.

User avatar
Vilebeggar
Posts: 41
Joined: September 5th, 2018, 5:21 pm
Location: Albania

Re: Dunefolk Rework - Unit Naming

Post by Vilebeggar » June 1st, 2019, 12:33 pm

some ideas trooper > adjutant > warchief

User avatar
Celtic_Minstrel
Developer
Posts: 1532
Joined: August 3rd, 2012, 11:26 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Dunefolk Rework - Unit Naming

Post by Celtic_Minstrel » June 1st, 2019, 11:50 pm

Edwylm wrote:
May 30th, 2019, 2:54 am
Marzban
Spahbed
Istandar
Padan
Framandar
None of those really have notable English usage, so I'd say they're not very appropriate.
The_Gnat wrote:
May 30th, 2019, 9:45 am
Celtic_Minstrel wrote:
May 30th, 2019, 12:28 am
Regarding "dervish", apparently it's actually of Persian origin.
True but when I look it up the definition says:

Code: Select all

The dervishes are some of the mystical methods of extreme poverty and scorn for conviction and faith. 
They live on the charity of others with the possession of any material possessions.  
They are called "Dervish" in Persia and "Dervish" in Turkey  Darwish is also known as "poor" sometimes, especially in India.

The Sufi dervishes were known for their wisdom, knowledge of medicine, poetry, intelligence and savvy.
I don't know about the historical definition, but I've definitely seen dervish used to refer to a dual-wielding swordsman in at least one fantasy game, possibly more. Also, a google image search for the term yields mostly dancers, and if I add "fantasy" to the search, while it's still largely dancers, many of them do have two swords.

So what I'm saying is that there's definite precedent in English for referring to a two-sword user as a dervish, regardless of actual historical use of the term.
Pentarctagon wrote:
May 31st, 2019, 5:48 pm
What about Soldier > Tactician > Emir? That would also have the benefit of not re-using existing unit names like (Elvish) Captain or (Dwarvish) Lord.
Not too fond of 'tactician' for some reason, but I can't quite figure out why... strategist has the same problem. And I think adjutant has totally the wrong meaning.
Author of The Black Cross of Aleron campaign and Default++ era.
Maintainer of Steelhive.

User avatar
The_Gnat
Posts: 2074
Joined: October 10th, 2016, 3:06 am
Contact:

Re: Dunefolk Rework - Unit Naming

Post by The_Gnat » June 2nd, 2019, 10:05 pm

@Celtic - that is true. I am not opposed to Dervish then if there is a precedent in English.

Also i agree tactician sounds too formal for the current names that the DF have.

User avatar
ghype
Posts: 825
Joined: December 13th, 2016, 4:43 pm
Location: Berlin, Germany

Re: Dunefolk Rework - Unit Naming

Post by ghype » June 3rd, 2019, 8:47 am

Out of the box thinking:

We initially had Dune Legend as an option - which resonated with quiet a few - before we settled for Dune Emir.
What if we give the Dune Warmaster that name, so becomes the Dune Legend as he no longer is available in MP (only campaign) and it's description talks about of him being legendary.

This would give us the option to re-name the current Dune Emir to Dune Warmaster, which fits as naming more then anything else discussed so far. Futhermore, all the references to the Warmaster would now go to the Leadership, who strategically plans battles and not to a single legendary fighter ...

User avatar
The_Gnat
Posts: 2074
Joined: October 10th, 2016, 3:06 am
Contact:

Re: Dunefolk Rework - Unit Naming

Post by The_Gnat » June 3rd, 2019, 9:19 am

ghype wrote:
June 3rd, 2019, 8:47 am
Out of the box thinking:
So then the level 3's would be Warmaster, Spearmaster, Blademaster?

I think that sounds good :)

User avatar
Pentarctagon
Forum Administrator
Posts: 4057
Joined: March 22nd, 2009, 10:50 pm
Location: Earth (occasionally)

Re: Dunefolk Rework - Unit Naming

Post by Pentarctagon » June 3rd, 2019, 12:34 pm

That sounds fine to me as well.
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code

User avatar
EarthCake
Posts: 354
Joined: March 29th, 2019, 1:57 pm
Location: Braavosi

Re: Dunefolk Rework - Unit Naming

Post by EarthCake » June 3rd, 2019, 1:09 pm

The names are great, except for I think it should be Naga Windblade, instead of Naga Bladewind.
Last edited by EarthCake on June 5th, 2019, 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
ghype
Posts: 825
Joined: December 13th, 2016, 4:43 pm
Location: Berlin, Germany

Re: Dunefolk Rework - Unit Naming

Post by ghype » June 5th, 2019, 7:08 am

Just to summarise, here are all the changes in the naming for the current candidates:



Dune Soldier, Dune Captain, Dune Warmaster
Dune Soldier, Dune Swordsman, Dune Blademaster, Dune Legend


Naga Slasher, Naga Dervish, Naga Executioner
Naga Slasher, Naga Ringcaster, Naga Windblade / Naga Bladewhirler



Anyone still having a problem any of these shall speak up.

User avatar
josteph
Developer
Posts: 738
Joined: August 19th, 2017, 6:58 pm

Re: Dunefolk Rework - Unit Naming

Post by josteph » June 5th, 2019, 6:01 pm

Sounds good to me :D

I'm kinda scratching my head wondering if there's an alternative to Captain, something that will have more atmosphere... :hmm: but I don't see any, and anyway the perfect is the enemy of the good, so carry on, I guess.

User avatar
Celtic_Minstrel
Developer
Posts: 1532
Joined: August 3rd, 2012, 11:26 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Dunefolk Rework - Unit Naming

Post by Celtic_Minstrel » June 7th, 2019, 12:35 pm

Looks pretty decent to me. I'm not super-attached to the Dune Legend thing, but it's not terrible, so I think we can go with it.

(I could suggest Dune Scion as an alternative, but I'm not convinced it's appreciably better than Legend, so whatever.)
Author of The Black Cross of Aleron campaign and Default++ era.
Maintainer of Steelhive.

User avatar
ghype
Posts: 825
Joined: December 13th, 2016, 4:43 pm
Location: Berlin, Germany

Re: Dunefolk Rework - Unit Naming

Post by ghype » June 7th, 2019, 12:53 pm

I have no idea what "Scion" means and didn't found any reference by googling which might help me understand ...

Post Reply