Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

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Pentarctagon
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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Post by Pentarctagon » April 7th, 2018, 4:03 pm

Eagle_11 wrote:
April 7th, 2018, 11:31 am
I would like an standalone, on-foot version of the wyvern rider guy as he would make an good lvl0 unit, something like a dunefolk peasant, im talking about the orange leather wearing guy, obviously.
That would depend on one existing or someone willing to create a sprite for it.
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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Post by Shiki » April 7th, 2018, 5:18 pm

I see the Wyvern as a strong monster, I would start that line not before lvl2.
They are not like horses, more like cave spiders or dragoons.

Also, for a line ranging from lvl 1-4 the differences are too small, I would consider the Wyvern itself as the main part of the unit, in contrast to the rider.
Apart from that, the Wyvern isn't bad. And I think with a relation to Drakes / Dragoons he fit's into wesnoth's world.


On another note: why do we consider mainlining many such new units ... for the sake of mainlining?
For the Roc, they would be like Gryphons, living in other mountains.
For the Djinns, I see no context in wesnoth yet. I would see them as very rare units (like the fire spirit maybe) units.

If someone makes arts beyond the base sprite, it's maybe not such a bad idea to mainline a few more units.
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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Post by Celtic_Minstrel » April 7th, 2018, 5:24 pm

Shiki wrote:
April 7th, 2018, 5:18 pm
On another note: why do we consider mainlining many such new units ... for the sake of mainlining?
For the Roc, they would be like Gryphons, living in other mountains.
For the Djinns, I see no context in wesnoth yet. I would see them as very rare units (like the fire spirit maybe) units.

If someone makes arts beyond the base sprite, it's maybe not such a bad idea to mainline a few more units.
Mainlining units is to give add-on devs relevant extras to work with if they so desire, more or less. It's not just limited to dunefolk either; there are also non-Dunefolk units that I want to mainline (like the Elvish Hunter).
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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Post by Pentarctagon » April 7th, 2018, 7:20 pm

Celtic_Minstrel wrote:
April 7th, 2018, 5:24 pm
Shiki wrote:
April 7th, 2018, 5:18 pm
On another note: why do we consider mainlining many such new units ... for the sake of mainlining?
For the Roc, they would be like Gryphons, living in other mountains.
For the Djinns, I see no context in wesnoth yet. I would see them as very rare units (like the fire spirit maybe) units.

If someone makes arts beyond the base sprite, it's maybe not such a bad idea to mainline a few more units.
Mainlining units is to give add-on devs relevant extras to work with if they so desire, more or less. It's not just limited to dunefolk either; there are also non-Dunefolk units that I want to mainline (like the Elvish Hunter).
Rocs and Wyverns were also mentioned in the Dunefolk's description, so it would be good to have them available as units for consistency with that.
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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Post by Pentarctagon » April 8th, 2018, 8:04 am

Update based on the previous comments, and discussion on Discord/IRC with Celtic_Minstrel and vultraz:
Rocs
Young Roc, level 1:
ImageImage

Roc, level 2:
<sprite needed>
Wyverns
Wild Wyvern, level 1:
Image

Wyvern Rider, level 1:
rider.png
rider.png (7.28 KiB) Viewed 1079 times
Jinn
Jinn, level 2:
Image
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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Post by Celtic_Minstrel » April 8th, 2018, 10:12 pm

For reference, my problem with the original big roc sprite is that it looks more like a gigantic vulture than a bird of prey. It especially doesn't match up with the young roc, which does look quite hawk-like or eagle-like to me. It also has a really weird pose, which serves only to emphasize the vultureness of it.

As for Kwandulin's wyvern riders, they seem overly busy and confusing; as I recall, Vultraz was more against them than me, but I can definitely see his point.
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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Post by Pentarctagon » April 12th, 2018, 6:58 am

Alright, well, since no one has said anything in the last few days, I assume there's no other objections to the above set of units. In which case, all that's left is coming up with some stats for them(which I can do), and then seeing if another a more fitting sprite of the level 2 Roc can be made(sorry Vyncyn - I hope this doesn't come across too negatively).
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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Post by zepko » April 12th, 2018, 7:25 am

Pentarctagon wrote:
April 12th, 2018, 6:58 am
Alright, well, since no one has said anything in the last few days, I assume there's no other objections to the above set of units. In which case, all that's left is coming up with some stats for them(which I can do), and then seeing if another a more fitting sprite of the level 2 Roc can be made(sorry Vyncyn - I hope this doesn't come across too negatively).
No objections, just a summary to understand what is going to be added.
Rocs: a 3 units line, with Vyncyn's sprite for level 1, something still missing for level 2, that large sprite for level 3.
Wyvern riders: a 4 (or maybe 3) units line, with the rider in your previous post as level 1 and those from OoA as levels 2+.
Wyvern: the wild wyvern, single unit, level 1 (or maybe better level 2).
Jinn: single unit, level 2 (I am still not convinced, but you know that ;) ).
Is this all?

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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Post by Pentarctagon » April 12th, 2018, 7:41 am

zepko wrote:
April 12th, 2018, 7:25 am
Pentarctagon wrote:
April 12th, 2018, 6:58 am
Alright, well, since no one has said anything in the last few days, I assume there's no other objections to the above set of units. In which case, all that's left is coming up with some stats for them(which I can do), and then seeing if another a more fitting sprite of the level 2 Roc can be made(sorry Vyncyn - I hope this doesn't come across too negatively).
No objections, just a summary to understand what is going to be added.
Rocs: a 3 units line, with Vyncyn's sprite for level 1, something still missing for level 2, that large sprite for level 3.
Wyvern riders: a 4 (or maybe 3) units line, with the rider in your previous post as level 1 and those from OoA as levels 2+.
Wyvern: the wild wyvern, single unit, level 1 (or maybe better level 2).
Jinn: single unit, level 2 (I am still not convinced, but you know that ;) ).
Is this all?
It'd be the latest I posted above:
Rocs: a 2 units line, with Vyncyn's sprite for level 1, something still missing for level 2
Wyvern rider: a single unit
Wyvern: the wild wyvern, single unit
Jinn: single unit, level 2
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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Post by zepko » April 12th, 2018, 11:16 am

Pentarctagon wrote:
April 12th, 2018, 7:41 am
Wyvern rider: a single unit
Well, then I have an objection in the sense that I'd like to see a full unit line for the Wyvern rider (also since sprites are available, and they don't look too bad to me).

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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Post by Celtic_Minstrel » April 12th, 2018, 5:04 pm

We feel that Kwandulin's wyvern rider sprites are too busy and elaborate and such. I do eventually want to add a full unit line for the wyvern rider, if we can get additional sprites that fit better with Sleepwalker's original, but for the first pass, there will just be the single unit.
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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Post by zepko » April 18th, 2018, 9:44 am

Celtic_Minstrel wrote:
April 12th, 2018, 5:04 pm
We feel that Kwandulin's wyvern rider sprites are too busy and elaborate and such. I do eventually want to add a full unit line for the wyvern rider, if we can get additional sprites that fit better with Sleepwalker's original, but for the first pass, there will just be the single unit.
I might agree for the higher levels, but Kwandulin's level 1 looks much better to me than the proposed addition. Well, it's a matter of personal taste, never mind.

Let me raise another point. I just re-read the Dunefolk description that has been added to the latest release, and I noticed that it never mentions that the Dunefolk are human. I don't want to reopen a long discussion, but I think that it is a relevant information to add, even just a hint, like, for example
An offshoot of a forgotten nomadic civilization, the Dunefolk humans lay claim...

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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Post by Pentarctagon » April 19th, 2018, 6:52 am

All of the units say "Dunefolk Human" in the sidebar, so I'm not sure saying it in the description as well adds much. If it were added though, I would swap it around, so:
An offshoot of a forgotten nomadic civilization, the human Dunefolk lay claim...
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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Post by zepko » April 21st, 2018, 4:57 pm

Pentarctagon wrote:
April 19th, 2018, 6:52 am
All of the units say "Dunefolk Human" in the sidebar, so I'm not sure saying it in the description as well adds much. If it were added though, I would swap it around, so:
An offshoot of a forgotten nomadic civilization, the human Dunefolk lay claim...
Sure, swapping it around is equally good. Still I believe it should be mentioned, also to avoid misunderstanding and confusion. I mean that someone could understand the Dunefolk to be the name of the race (as it could be Elf or Orc), rather than that of a different human civilization.

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Re: Dunefolk(previously Khalifate) race description

Post by vultraz » April 21st, 2018, 5:06 pm

I actually think it sounds better as "Dunefolk humans".
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