Some of my (back)story ideas

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Re: Some of my (back)story ideas

Postby The_Gnat » December 20th, 2016, 8:57 pm

@Forest Dragon -

Thank you for your feedback (the previous post)! I like your idea about naga and merman, also i agree with vyncyn and eagle 11. If the dwarves do have a God it probably isn't the same person their talking about when they say "by the beard of <whoever>"

Also (to your recent post): i agree that necromancer would want to be worshiped, whats interesting though is that worship from a bunch of dead mindless warriors is probably not so satisfying, But they always kill everyone else before they give them a chance to worship them....

@Eagle 11 -

I am glad you posted your ideas! It is great to get backstory ideas. I like your ideas, and agree it is better that in campaigns and wesnoth lore that gods don't play an active part. To some extent it is possible that all these "gods" are merely fake and each religion believes in a different fake god, however due to the mass of magical powers in wesnoth compared to the normal world we live in, either -

A: wesnoth is a different world that has other laws of nature, which allow such powers to be gained

or -

B: - their is some external force in wesnoth (or more than one) which though not directly active in the lives of the people in wesnoth, gives power and magical abilities

Either option is reasonable but i personally prefer option B.

Eagle11 wrote:The spirits of dead drakes could get contacted by descendants of that Drake with the help of such Diviners at those shrines, after a period of meditation spent with the diviner.


The only question i have about this is that if this is part of their religion would we see drake diviners more often? It seems that these diviners would almost be like human magi, however these drakes seem to be rare. (compared to magi)

:lol: I like your idea about ogres!
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Re: Some of my (back)story ideas

Postby ForestDragon » December 21st, 2016, 10:43 am

The_Gnat wrote:Thank you for your feedback (the previous post)! I like your idea about naga and merman, also i agree with vyncyn and eagle 11. If the dwarves do have a God it probably isn't the same person their talking about when they say "by the beard of <whoever>"

i agree
The_Gnat wrote:Also (to your recent post): i agree that necromancer would want to be worshiped, whats interesting though is that worship from a bunch of dead mindless warriors is probably not so satisfying, But they always kill everyone else before they give them a chance to worship them....

well, they at least have apprentices, so at least they could have a small cult, where they worship their master :geek: :mrgreen
The_Gnat wrote:@Eagle 11 -

I am glad you posted your ideas! It is great to get backstory ideas. I like your ideas, and agree it is better that in campaigns and wesnoth lore that gods don't play an active part. To some extent it is possible that all these "gods" are merely fake and each religion believes in a different fake god, however due to the mass of magical powers in wesnoth compared to the normal world we live in, either -

A: wesnoth is a different world that has other laws of nature, which allow such powers to be gained

or -

B: - their is some external force in wesnoth (or more than one) which though not directly active in the lives of the people in wesnoth, gives power and magical abilities

about the B option: yeah, but you should probably have said 'which can be tapped into to give power and magical abilities' instead of 'gives power and magical abilities' after all, it doesn't have sentience :mrgreen:
The_Gnat wrote:The only question i have about this is that if this is part of their religion would we see drake diviners more often? It seems that these diviners would almost be like human magi, however these drakes seem to be rare. (compared to magi)

probably the same reason that we don't see female drakes too often: most of them probably just stay at their shrines, rarely going too far
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Re: Some of my (back)story ideas

Postby Eagle_11 » December 21st, 2016, 10:49 am

The only question i have about this is that if this is part of their religion would we see drake diviners more often? It seems that these diviners would almost be like human magi, however these drakes seem to be rare. (compared to magi)

Perhaps this can be explained via those Diviners being all female drakes thus very rare. However that really doesnt get along the mainline idea of drake females being closely guarded and kept away from the rest of the enclave.

Another idea for ogres: Perhaps the Ogres would have an weird type of Monks.
In Diablo3 there is an playable monk class, and there are 'background's (small stories) written for almost every skill. One of the skill backgrounds mentioned an order of Monks, that thinks there is an spirit in every single object, iirc because they believed there is an constant flow of spirits in the world around and through any material, not only living beings. In an attempt to tend to the world equally and fair, they venerate also those objects, or rather the spirits within. (Afaik such an philosophy exist irl too, in the far east)

This object can be everything, it may be something that makes absolute sense or an very laughable tiny thing to stop at. what gets venerated varies wildly and seems rather determined by that Monks mood and whim to outsiders, albeit they see a greater pattern in what they are doing.
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Re: Some of my (back)story ideas

Postby ForestDragon » December 22nd, 2016, 7:14 pm

Eagle_11 wrote:
The only question i have about this is that if this is part of their religion would we see drake diviners more often? It seems that these diviners would almost be like human magi, however these drakes seem to be rare. (compared to magi)

Perhaps this can be explained via those Diviners being all female drakes thus very rare. However that really doesnt get along the mainline idea of drake females being closely guarded and kept away from the rest of the enclave.

Another idea for ogres: Perhaps the Ogres would have an weird type of Monks.
In Diablo3 there is an playable monk class, and there are 'background's (small stories) written for almost every skill. One of the skill backgrounds mentioned an order of Monks, that thinks there is an spirit in every single object, iirc because they believed there is an constant flow of spirits in the world around and through any material, not only living beings. In an attempt to tend to the world equally and fair, they venerate also those objects, or rather the spirits within. (Afaik such an philosophy exist irl too, in the far east)

This object can be everything, it may be something that makes absolute sense or an very laughable tiny thing to stop at. what gets venerated varies wildly and seems rather determined by that Monks mood and whim to outsiders, albeit they see a greater pattern in what they are doing.

about drakes: well, i think they could be of either gender

about ogres:quite a good idea :D besides, it would also be fitting considering that ogres are fairly stupid, so, such type of religion could be possible, also, here is a small list of (more or less) funny things ogres could venerate:
1.a sandwich (gotten by time travel, no?)
2.a piece of fecal matter they just pooped out
3.their enemies during battle :mrgreen:
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Re: Some of my (back)story ideas

Postby The_Gnat » December 22nd, 2016, 7:48 pm

All these are good ideas! I also can imagine a ogre venerating a odd looking stone, a puddle he sees his reflection in, and a small animal (rabbit or squirrel) that he passes in the forest. ;)

@eagle11 - to me ogres seem too dumb to have a monk class or any logic to their beliefs. (Have you seen the ogre portraits :P )
What I wonder is how ogres got so dumb. They seem human like so they must have some human relatives. However what is their other relative who they inherited the dumbness from. (Or maybe, new campaign idea, a beautiful but evil sorceress lived long ago. And their was one knight the most handsom and noble.... so the story ends that the sorceress cursed his offspring forever because while every other man in the kingdom wished to be her husband, he refused to marry her because he saw the evil in her. and his descendants are the ogres) other ideas for how the ogres got so dumb are welcome!

And another interesting question is: in all the campaigns are there any necromancer women (as main enemies)? All liches are men and of the mainline campaigns I believe there are about 7 necromancers and liches as the main enemy and they are all men, even the elf lich (in maybe legend of wesmere i cant remember) (In south guard) is a man.

Anyway back to the question why are there no female liches? And why are campaigns sexist against women necromancers? (Not that it matters but I thought it might be interesting to invent a theory about why woman aren't necromancers very often)
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Re: Some of my (back)story ideas

Postby ForestDragon » December 22nd, 2016, 8:12 pm

The_Gnat wrote:All these are good ideas! I also can imagine a ogre venerating a odd looking stone, a puddle he sees his reflection in, and a small animal (rabbit or squirrel) that he passes in the forest. ;)

quite likely
The_Gnat wrote:@eagle11 - to me ogres seem too dumb to have a monk class or any logic to their beliefs. (Have you seen the ogre portraits :P )
What I wonder is how ogres got so dumb. They seem human like so they must have some human relatives. However what is their other relative who they inherited the dumbness from. (Or maybe, new campaign idea, a beautiful but evil sorceress lived long ago. And their was one knight the most handsom and noble.... so the story ends that the sorceress cursed his offspring forever because while every other man in the kingdom wished to be her husband, he refused to marry her because he saw the evil in her. and his descendants are the ogres) other ideas for how the ogres got so dumb are welcome!

Not a bad idea, but a bit too fairy-tale-ish, how about taking the same evil sorceress again, but this time, she curses a settlement, people from which discriminated and exiled her (maybe she even barely escaped death sentence) and then these cursed humans (aka ogres) started migrating and reproducing, that's why they became so commonplace in certain regions
The_Gnat wrote:And another interesting question is: in all the campaigns are there any necromancer women (as main enemies)? All liches are men and of the mainline campaigns I believe there are about 7 necromancers and liches as the main enemy and they are all men, even the elf lich (in maybe legend of wesmere i cant remember) is a man (I think). :mrgreen: maybe I should stop stating facts, I have played this campaign too long ago to remember anything except " kill landar ". ;)

Anyway back to the question why are there no female liches? And why are campaigns sexist against women necromancers? (Not that it matters but I thought it might be interesting to invent a theory about why woman aren't necromancers very often)

well, that's when if you look into mainline campaigns only, which usually tend to give quite a narrow view on things. If you look at UMC, there is still quite a large gender bias, but at least it's far from as severe as the one in mainline campaigns. about female liches, i remember around three: one is the protagonist from Secrets of Ancients (or how is it called) who eventually becomes one, second one is from War of the Jewel, basically one of the slightly minor antagonists, third is from Aria of the Dragon-Slayer, who is a Windsong lich, and (according to the campaign she's in) she is the one who invented necromancy. See?! if a woman is the necromancy's creator (note: it's only according to the UMC campaign) it's a lot less sexist, besides, in default wesnoth, necromancers havea roughtly equal-ish chance of spawning with either gender, so, case more-or-less closed.
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Re: Some of my (back)story ideas

Postby James_The_Invisible » December 22nd, 2016, 8:17 pm

I do not think that there are any female liches in mainline but I could name you 3 user made campaign (Edit: Secrets of the Ancients, Legend of the Invincibles and For Power) which have female lich as the protagonist or least one of the main characters. In 2 of them you will even get to fight (at least 1) female necromancer. The elf lich (Mal M'Brin/Mebrin) is from The South Guard.
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Re: Some of my (back)story ideas

Postby ForestDragon » December 22nd, 2016, 8:21 pm

James_The_Invisible wrote:I do not think that there are any female liches in mainline but I could name you 3 user made campaign (Edit: Secrets of the Ancients, Legend of the Invincibles and For Power) which have female lich as the protagonist or least one of the main characters. In 2 of them you will even get to fight (at least 1) female necromancer. The elf lich (Mal M'Brin/Mebrin) is from The South Guard.

thanks for mentioning, i kinda forgot about Legend of the Invincibles
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Re: Some of my (back)story ideas

Postby The_Gnat » December 22nd, 2016, 11:33 pm

ForestDragon wrote:Not a bad idea, but a bit too fairy-tale-ish, how about taking the same evil sorceress again, but this time, she curses a settlement, people from which discriminated and exiled her (maybe she even barely escaped death sentence) and then these cursed humans (aka ogres) started migrating and reproducing, that's why they became so commonplace in certain regions


Yeah i like your idea better! :D

ForestDragon wrote:well, that's when if you look into mainline campaigns only, which usually tend to give quite a narrow view on things. If you look at UMC, there is still quite a large gender bias, but at least it's far from as severe as the one in mainline campaigns. about female liches, i remember around three: one is the protagonist from Secrets of Ancients (or how is it called) who eventually becomes one, second one is from War of the Jewel, basically one of the slightly minor antagonists, third is from Aria of the Dragon-Slayer, who is a Windsong lich, and (according to the campaign she's in) she is the one who invented necromancy. See?! if a woman is the necromancy's creator (note: it's only according to the UMC campaign) it's a lot less sexist, besides, in default wesnoth, necromancers havea roughtly equal-ish chance of spawning with either gender, so, case more-or-less closed.


Thanks, I personally don't think a single person could have invented necromancy but it is good that UMC authors are not so sexist ;)
Despite this though, i have noticed though that the lich can only be "male". Technically even if a dark sorcerer is female she will become male when she advances into a lich because its gender is restricted (at least in 1.12.6).

James_the_invisible wrote:I do not think that there are any female liches in mainline but I could name you 3 user made campaign (Edit: Secrets of the Ancients, Legend of the Invincibles and For Power) which have female lich as the protagonist or least one of the main characters. In 2 of them you will even get to fight (at least 1) female necromancer. The elf lich (Mal M'Brin/Mebrin) is from The South Guard.


Thank you for the list! And the corrections about the elf lich, i forgot where it had come from! :D
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Re: Some of my (back)story ideas

Postby ForestDragon » December 23rd, 2016, 5:19 am

The_Gnat wrote:Despite this though, i have noticed though that the lich can only be "male". Technically even if a dark sorcerer is female she will become male when she advances into a lich because its gender is restricted (at least in 1.12.6).

ummmm, have you actually leveled something into a lich? even though the lich has only the male gender by default (due to male and female being barely any different when becoming skeleton-like) but the female gender still is displayed on the unit
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Re: Some of my (back)story ideas

Postby The_Gnat » December 23rd, 2016, 5:29 am

ForestDragon wrote:ummmm, have you actually leveled something into a lich? even though the lich has only the male gender by default (due to male and female being barely any different when becoming skeleton-like) but the female gender still is displayed on the unit


:whistle: No i haven't actually leveled anything into a lich i was just reading the options menu for multiplayer which only allows male. Thanks for replying though! :D

(EDIT: :P one of the main sources of all my questions is my mis-information)
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Re: Some of my (back)story ideas

Postby ForestDragon » December 23rd, 2016, 8:23 am

The_Gnat wrote:(EDIT: :P one of the main sources of all my questions is my mis-information)

well, keep asking, and you might become less mis-informed
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Re: Some of my (back)story ideas

Postby Paulomat4 » December 23rd, 2016, 11:46 am

Just commenting to inform you that secrets of the ancients is going to be mainlined in 1.14 so we'll soon have a female lich there. (they posted it on facebook)
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Re: Some of my (back)story ideas

Postby The_Gnat » December 23rd, 2016, 10:55 pm

Paulomat4 wrote:Just commenting to inform you that secrets of the ancients is going to be mainlined in 1.14 so we'll soon have a female lich there. (they posted it on facebook)


Great it is always good when they mainline new campaigns!
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Re: Some of my (back)story ideas

Postby The_Gnat » December 31st, 2016, 8:41 am

Trees in the forest and Woses. The only difference is that trees don't walk or talk. I believe that the trees become woses from some sort of magic or enchantment, maybe enchantment from elvish shydes or druids (since they are friends with elves) however it would take similar magic to necromancy because a soul is being inserted into the tree, that previously had none. And it take a lot of energy for a thing as large as a tree to walk and attack. Also what gender are woses. Technically they have no gender because they are plants, and they do not reproduce... but they look like old men. Maybe each tree looks like a different type of person when it becomes a wose. Maybe other types of trees can also become alive and they look like women? But that raises the question why do we not see any other types of tree become alive. Are there any other types of woses (besides the wose and the wose shaman) in wesnoth?

Moving on from woses, about gryphons. In order to train a beast as powerful and deadly as a gryphon you probably would have to trap it when it was younge and then teach it to let you ride it. Otherwise unless you could speak gryphon language it would think you were attacking it and fight you. But as the dwarves primary scout maybe some dwarves do speak gryponese? I have also seen the bear rider which is a reasonable alternative to a gryphon but not nearly as good, and the machines the dwarves have created, but i do not think that the dwarves would be that technologically advanced over the other races to build tanks and balloon fortresses.

Many creatures in wesnoth, even lizards like saurians are intelligent (to some extent) so why are horses, bears, wolves, gryphons and other creatures like them not intelligent? If evolution played a part then all the human like species would be smarter, but saurians are as much like human as horses are.
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