Saurian race description

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Dugi
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Re: Saurian race description

Post by Dugi » August 12th, 2016, 7:21 am

@Aldarisvet
Given that anyone can edit the wiki, but not the game, the content of the game is more important than the wiki in a case of conflict. I am not telling that they can't have any astrology (since others would not learn of it, as it is a completely useless scam that would never give them any benefits on battlefield) or bhuddist calendar (same reason as for the astrology). I am just telling that it's wrong to go against mainline. There is a bitter hostility between saurians and humans and the saurians to apply methods of banditry in these hostilities for whatever reason. It could be just that they consider sabotage a very good warfare technique.

And I don't care what Jetrel thinks. He hasn't written any mainline campaigns. His work on art in days long gone is completely irrelevant here.

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Aldarisvet
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Re: Saurian race description

Post by Aldarisvet » August 12th, 2016, 8:06 am

Dugi wrote:@Aldarisvet
There is a bitter hostility between saurians and humans and the saurians to apply methods of banditry in these hostilities for whatever reason.
You have just got me into an idea. In the most cases mainline and UMC campaigns plotlines are about some evil enemy attacking the homeland. In Russian we have even a meme about it: enemies burned the native hut. Orcish Invasion, Undead Invasion, Invasion from the Unknown, Imperialists Invasion (do not know about Khalifate invasion but possible we have it also already). And so on. As if authors of campaigns cannot think out something more ogininal than some invasion for their plotline.

But wow! There is some unexplored space still! A Saurian Invasion! Imagine that some day some great saurian prophet appeared that was able to unite all saurian tribes by the prophecy in which saurians were promised that they will retain all the lands they lost to humans (reminiscence of Native Americans attempts to rebel). So that evil saurian leader was able to make a fist from their saurian armies that despicably started to smash Wesnothian empire. And you have to play on the side of a simple wesnothian soldier who accidentally forced to take a role of a commander in this unseen circumatances. Acting heroically, that soldier was able to resist the saurian invasion and then to push them back to the swamps where their truly place is. After that he was awarded nobility by the king himself and bards wrote songs about him! An awesome story for another one mainline campaign! ;)
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Dugi
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Re: Saurian race description

Post by Dugi » August 12th, 2016, 8:41 am

Maybe an invasion is boring, but something interesting can be made out of it. And it's important to say that much of warfare is about invasions. The reasons vary, from [acronym=Hitler's invasion of Germany to accuse Poland]false flag action[/acronym] to [acronym=Idi Amin's invasion of Tanzania after Israel freed its hostages]unleashing wrath on an unrelated party when those who pissed you off are too strong[/acronym], invasions remain. Better don't blame campaigns of being about invasions, but rather for boring invasions (if they are boring).

Your idea strongly reminds me of the book A Darkness at Sethanon from Raymond E. Feist, that was about an invasion of dark elves (who were in that universe just elves adhering to an ideology of hating everyone who's not a dark elf and were quite angry at humans for taking their lands) led by false prophet Murmandamus. But it was a good story, so making something in that style could be cool.

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Re: Saurian race description

Post by Aldarisvet » August 12th, 2016, 9:12 am

Dugi wrote:Better don't blame campaigns of being about invasions, but rather for boring invasions
Well, If almost every campaign (in the first scenario) starts with some enemy "unexpectedly" attacks someone's homeland - then that is a bad cliche. Something that repeats all over again. Just a good sense demands not to reproduce what was repeated hundreds of times.

I've just counted - in all mainline campaigns I've seen only Nothern Rebirth and Under the Burning Suns starts without someome attacking their homland. In NR you are in fact is an attacking rebelling side, in UtBS there is an undead evil necromancer attacker in the first scenario but the focus is shifted more on the catastophe that Desert Elves survived than on the invading enemy. The only campaign I still had no idea about was The Scepetre of Fire. I've just look it into the wiki and found that in this campaign it begins not with an invasion but some trade conflict with elves (wow, elves!). Thats good. May be I give a chance to this mainline campaign playing it. All others campaigns begin with invasion/homeland attack either of orcs or undead and only Liberty begins with invasion of human Asheviere's forces (oh, also in the Rise of Wesnoth in the first scenario you actually is attacked by Wesfolk but it in general about the orcish invasion still).

And the story I've just described about Saurian Invasion was an obvious parody, a sum of all cliches.
Last edited by Aldarisvet on August 12th, 2016, 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Saurian race description

Post by Dugi » August 12th, 2016, 9:42 am

Starting with unexpected enemies invading your homeland is the typical action-start explaining why you are starting with weak units. Also, it displays that you are peaceful and you haven't started the war, you are fighting out of necessity. Although I start campaigns with that way less often than mainline:
Statistics of my campaign starts:
For the sake of parody, LotI has scenarios named An Orcish Assault, Another Orcish Assault and And Another Orcish Assault. Of course, none of it is just a plain story à la Attack of Whatever from Wherever.

As I say, a good story can be made out of it, if care is taken. Orcs may be attacking be attacking because their lands are becoming inhospitable and they may have no choice. There may be a scheming tyrant behind an invasion who is planning to throw the blame on someone else and destroy also you when you learn of it. The attackers may be noble rebels fighting against a sorcerous usurper with a forged birthright who only brings misery to the land. The invasion may turn out to be a false flag action schemed by a marshal who is a member of a destructive cult seeking to destabilise the kingdom by causing needless warfare.

I have noticed that your story suggestion was very uncreative, but I did not realise it was a parody and did not want to offend you by calling it crap. There are better ways to tell people to remake a boring story.

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Re: Saurian race description

Post by Aldarisvet » August 12th, 2016, 10:15 am

Dugi wrote: I have noticed that your story suggestion was very uncreative, but I did not realise it was a parody and did not want to offend you by calling it crap.
Actually there are mainline campaigns plotlines that are badly uncreative. The whole plotline of all mainline campaigns is:
You save your homeland from the invasion (or some orcish/undead threat) and become a king/noble/royal adviser mage/Legendary elf/Lord Companion of the Alliance/Great orcish chief. Heh. Even in DiD you are saving Wesnoth however ending becoming a lich. At least some original end for the savior. What I like Liberty for is that you in fact saving no one in it and becoming no one in the end :lol: The thing I cant understand still is that why they ruined that castle in Liberty? To save an independence of Elensefar? But why they should so care about Elensefar actually if soon they evacuated on the north side of the river anycase? Ok I went too much offtopic and so end this.
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Re: Saurian race description

Post by MathBrush » March 10th, 2018, 2:44 am

Was this description or the wiki description ever added into the main game? I'm not seeing anything in-game for 1.13.11. Wolves and falcons are also missing descriptions.

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Re: Saurian race description

Post by SigurdFireDragon » March 10th, 2018, 3:19 am

It was never added. Saurians, Wolves, & Falcons could all use a description.

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Re: Saurian race description

Post by MathBrush » March 10th, 2018, 4:13 am

I'd help with it, but just like with the Dunefolk, there doesn't seem to be a well-defined process for this. Everyone can just come up with their own (good) ideas, and there's not really anyone to say "Okay, great, this is the one we'll do."

Maybe there should be a race-description dictator? It was really disheartening to see this thread from 2 years ago that's so much like the Dunefolk thread and never led to anything. There's literally no way to decide when something is done.

On the other hand, I realized that the race descriptions are actually really hard to find in the game, and so not really that important.

But just for fun, I'll post a Saurian description in a few minutes.

------

I've compiled most of the threads in campaigns referring to Saurians.

Legend of Wesmere:
Spoiler:
The rise of Wesnoth:
Spoiler:
Son of the black eye
Spoiler:
Secrets of the Ancients:
Spoiler:
Heir to the throne
Spoiler:
Drake faction description:
Spoiler:
------

Takeaways:

-Saurians have been allies of nagas, orcs, and fire dragons.

-Saurians believe the planets can give them useful information, and it has been successful from time to time.

-Saurians have a matriarchal society.

-They get no respect; people are always trying to kill them. Although, they do have...

-An empire. Which the elves of Wesmere slaughtered.

-Saurians are not related closely to drakes.

-
Last edited by MathBrush on March 10th, 2018, 4:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Saurian race description

Post by Pentarctagon » March 10th, 2018, 5:38 am

Please keep everything to one comment at a time. If you have more to say before someone else has commented, then please edit your previous post.
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Re: Saurian race description

Post by MathBrush » March 11th, 2018, 5:52 am

[Double post removed]
Last edited by MathBrush on March 11th, 2018, 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Saurian race description

Post by MathBrush » March 11th, 2018, 5:54 am

Here's my proposal, which relies entirely on canon (except for the words 'always' at the end of paragraph 2 and 'dominated' and 'most' in paragraph 3):

Saurians

Saurians are an ancient race of lizard-like creatures inhabiting the swamps and marshes of the Great Continent. They are smaller than other races and rely on cunning and skill to overwhelm their foes rather than strength and brute force.

The relative fragility of saurians coupled with their intelligence has led them to form multiple alliances with other races throughout history, usually in the form of servitude to larger, but dimmer, allies. In this way, the saurians have served many creatures, from nagas to necromancers and from dragons to drakes. While such servitude may seem demeaning to other races, the saurians always manage to turn it to their advantage.

The inner workings of saurian society are dominated by the females, who form much of the ruling class. Many of the male saurians dedicate their time to pursuits of ancient knowledge, including magic and the movements of the stars and planets. Most saurians believe that the celestial bodies can impart wisdom to the careful observer.

The Saurians reached their peak in the years before King Haldric led his band of humans across the great seas. The human invasion decimated the saurians, who retreated to the swamps north of the Great River. There they met even greater losses at the hands of the elves, led by a warrior known as Landar. The Saurians have never recovered from this series of defeats, and remain a small and scattered people.

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Re: Saurian race description

Post by Sur_191 » March 11th, 2018, 10:30 am

MathBrush wrote:
March 11th, 2018, 5:52 am
Here's my proposal, which relies entirely on canon (except for the words 'always' at the end of paragraph 2 and 'dominated' and 'most' in paragraph 3):

Saurians are an ancient race of lizard-like creatures inhabiting the swamps and marshes of the Great Continent. They are smaller than other races and rely on cunning and skill to overwhelm their foes rather than strength and brute force.

The relative fragility of saurians coupled with their intelligence has led them to form multiple alliances with other races throughout history, usually in the form of servitude to larger, but dimmer, allies. In this way, the saurians have served many creatures, from nagas to necromancers and from dragons to drakes. While such servitude may seem demeaning to other races, the saurians always manage to turn it to their advantage.

The inner workings of saurian society are dominated by the females, who form much of the ruling class. Many of the male saurians dedicate their time to pursuits of ancient knowledge, including magic and the movements of the stars and planets. Most saurians believe that the celestial bodies can impart wisdom to the careful observer.

The Saurians reached their peak in the years before King Haldric led his band of humans across the great seas. The human invasion decimated the saurians, who retreated to the swamps north of the Great River. There they met even greater losses at the hands of the elves, led by a warrior known as Landar. The Saurians have never recovered from this series of defeats, and remain a small and scattered people.
You have posted this description twice, you had better remove one of your posts.

Talking about content, I like this description. Though I think that it should mention Kalenz, since he was leading elves together with Landar.

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Re: Saurian race description

Post by Sapient » March 11th, 2018, 10:34 am

For me the idea of saurian society being strictly split along male/female gender roles just isn't that interesting. Someone proposed before that saurians are asexual and reproduce by budding. I don't remember if that campaign was ever finished or not, but it was going to feature a scene where the protagonist eats a certain plant which changed its horomones and induces it to start the process of budding. That could also explain why they live in the swamp, because it is a plant that only grows in swamplands, so they cannot reproduce without it.
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Re: Saurian race description

Post by Xalzar » March 11th, 2018, 10:55 am

Sapient wrote:
March 11th, 2018, 10:34 am
For me the idea of saurian society being strictly split along male/female gender roles just isn't that interesting. Someone proposed before that saurians are asexual and reproduce by budding. I don't remember if that campaign was ever finished or not, but it was going to feature a scene where the protagonist eats a certain plant which changed its horomones and induces it to start the process of budding. That could also explain why they live in the swamp, because it is a plant that only grows in swamplands, so they cannot reproduce without it.
I think it is interesting, expecially if it is a matriarchal society. But an asexual, budding race could be good as well.
IIRC dinosaurs while in the egg changed sex depending on external temperature, so a change of hormones based on an external factor could be not so far-fetched, whichever reproduction system we may settle on.

EDIT: I remember now, that in LoW, eggs were mentioned. So probably eggs it is! :eng:

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