The Silver Age

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Whiskeyjack
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The Silver Age

Post by Whiskeyjack » June 22nd, 2015, 6:57 pm

Hello,

I have a couple of questions about the Northern Alliance, The Silver Age, Northern Rebirth and UMC campaigns in that time:

- Are there any campaigns set in the Silver Age in the realms of the NA besides Carved in Stone (which I still have to play) which I would have to consider basing a campaign of my own in those lands an times?

- Are there any campaigns/maps set later in time that specify locations and names of towns founded in/before that time (besides Dwarven Doors) that fit the following lines in the timeline?
The Northlands, aided by a second wave of colonization north from Wesnoth, become more civilised and stable. Although nowhere near as prosperous as Wesnoth was during its Golden Age, the Northlands developed towns of significant size and a thriving - if somewhat dangerous - trade network.
- Are there any characters that would have to be considered besides those in CiS, NR and the timeline?

- Who inhabits the Swamp of Dread?

- Which territory is part of the NA? If I remember correctly, the elves of NR are from Lintanir (are they actually part of the NA?) and thus from quite far east, while Wesmere has nothing to do with the NA? The territory between Dwarven Doors/The Ford of Abez and Wesmere/The Swamp of Dread respectively looks pretty small for all the humans and orcs on the other hand.

- On a related note: Can someone point me to how I can find current cannon maps of Wesnoth and surrounding lands as I was very unsuccessfull in that particular search? Is there a map with more details than the one of the login screen?

- Assuming the marriage road: Can the fact that Tallin and Eryssa have a child (as specified in the epilogue of NR) be taken by word (I remember reading a very interesting discussion about races and reproduction but seem to cannot find it anymore in which exactly that point came up)? The epilogue also says that the child will become a great hero so it would have to be quite well known in the NA...

- Assuming the dispute road: This one would be clearer having a cold neutrality between the NA and Lintanir Forest. But then who are the Elves of the NA? Do the Wesmere Elves enter at a later time?

- If I remember correctly, the Drakes live at Lake Vrug? Are they part of the NA or just friendly towards them after NR (assuming the Krag route in both cases)?

- How would you deal with building the NA considering the very different stance of Lintanir Elves/Drakes towards the NA depending on the route you play it?

- Is Glamdrol part of the NA? What race(s) does it belong to?
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The Great Rings
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Re: The Silver Age

Post by The Great Rings » June 23rd, 2015, 7:39 am

Whiskeyjack wrote:Hello,

I have a couple of questions about the Northern Alliance, The Silver Age, Northern Rebirth and UMC campaigns in that time:

- Are there any campaigns set in the Silver Age in the realms of the NA besides Carved in Stone (which I still have to play) which I would have to consider basing a campaign of my own in those lands an times?
That's an add-on, right?

I honestly wouldn't worry about add-ons. They aren't canon (well, Invasion from the Unknown seems to have a strange semi-canon status in the timeline), and its hard enough to maintain continuity with everything in mainline.
- Are there any campaigns/maps set later in time that specify locations and names of towns founded in/before that time (besides Dwarven Doors) that fit the following lines in the timeline?
The Northlands, aided by a second wave of colonization north from Wesnoth, become more civilised and stable. Although nowhere near as prosperous as Wesnoth was during its Golden Age, the Northlands developed towns of significant size and a thriving - if somewhat dangerous - trade network.
During the era that passage refers to? Not that I know of.

Hammer of Thursagan fleshes out the early history of the Northern Alliance a bit.

Also, the Ford of Abez almost has to be a major trade route if you use any logic. Which likely means stuff being built their (roads, fortifications, inns, etc.).
- Are there any characters that would have to be considered besides those in CiS, NR and the timeline?
Well, if you're going so late in the timeline, I doubt anyone from Northern Rebirth is still alive except maybe the immortal mages. I can't speak for CiS.

Beyond that, Hammer of Thursagan if you go early enough in the timeline and Son of the Black Eye if you go that late in the timeline. Both are mainline, and both deal with the northlands extensively.
- Who inhabits the Swamp of Dread?
Undead and saurians as I recall, though I'm not sure if that's from mainline or just add-ons.
- Which territory is part of the NA? If I remember correctly, the elves of NR are from Lintanir (are they actually part of the NA?) and thus from quite far east, while Wesmere has nothing to do with the NA? The territory between Dwarven Doors/The Ford of Abez and Wesmere/The Swamp of Dread respectively looks pretty small for all the humans and orcs on the other hand.
Dwarven Doors and Knalga are involved, obviously. And the timeline mentions a mission to Kal Kartha by NA dwarves in Hammer of Thursagan which as I recall went to the north east.

Wesmere, Wesnoth, mountains, and swamps kind of box the heart of the NA in. But they'd be nuts if they didn't at least make sure they controlled the northern side of the Ford of Abez if possible.

Also, remember that the NA is not so much a single country as an alliance, as the name suggests. It may well not have a single block of territory. It might include different regions cut off from one another.
- On a related note: Can someone point me to how I can find current cannon maps of Wesnoth and surrounding lands as I was very unsuccessfull in that particular search? Is there a map with more details than the one of the login screen?
Not that I know of.
- Assuming the marriage road: Can the fact that Tallin and Eryssa have a child (as specified in the epilogue of NR) be taken by word (I remember reading a very interesting discussion about races and reproduction but seem to cannot find it anymore in which exactly that point came up)? The epilogue also says that the child will become a great hero so it would have to be quite well known in the NA...
If a mainline campaign says it happened, I'd say its safe to say it happened unless it gets changed.
- Assuming the dispute road: This one would be clearer having a cold neutrality between the NA and Lintanir Forest. But then who are the Elves of the NA? Do the Wesmere Elves enter at a later time?
No idea.
- If I remember correctly, the Drakes live at Lake Vrug? Are they part of the NA or just friendly towards them after NR (assuming the Krag route in both cases)?
Agan, no idea.
- How would you deal with building the NA considering the very different stance of Lintanir Elves/Drakes towards the NA depending on the route you play it?
You kind of have to pick one route, I guess.

I'm inclined to go with the married route myself, for thematic reasons.
- Is Glamdrol part of the NA? What race(s) does it belong to?
I seem to recall reading somewhere that its an orc city, thought that doesn't preclude it being in the NA.
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Whiskeyjack
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Re: The Silver Age

Post by Whiskeyjack » June 23rd, 2015, 1:01 pm

Hey TGR,

thanks for the answers, that cleared some confusions for me.
The Great Rings wrote:Well, if you're going so late in the timeline, I doubt anyone from Northern Rebirth is still alive except maybe the immortal mages. I can't speak for CiS.

Beyond that, Hammer of Thursagan if you go early enough in the timeline and Son of the Black Eye if you go that late in the timeline. Both are mainline, and both deal with the northlands extensively.
Hm, I gues I´ll have to replay HoT and SotBE too.
The Great Rings wrote:Wesmere, Wesnoth, mountains, and swamps kind of box the heart of the NA in. But they'd be nuts if they didn't at least make sure they controlled the northern side of the Ford of Abez if possible.
In CiS it seems that the lands around Glamdrol (which are pretty big) belong to the orcs which would resolve a lot of problems. If I place some of the mentioned new human settlements in the southern parts of this land it would also advance the ever growing conflicts between orcs and humans. I just got the idea that the humans could also be trying to gain land by draining parts of the swamps which would set up conflict with the saurians, what do you think of that?
But you are right, the heart of at least the human part of the NA has to be that territory.
I just felt that for the threat the orcs always pose and the sheer numbers they field, that this land would have been to small to be all they inhabited, together with the humans no less.

Still a lot of questions open. But if timeline and mainline campaigns are actually all the cannon we have, this should not be as big a problem as I can just make it all up. :?
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Kwandulin
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Re: The Silver Age

Post by Kwandulin » June 23rd, 2015, 6:50 pm

Whiskeyjack wrote: - On a related note: Can someone point me to how I can find current cannon maps of Wesnoth and surrounding lands as I was very unsuccessfull in that particular search? Is there a map with more details than the one of the login screen?
zookeeper made several bigmaps a year ago. Some mainline campaigns got unique bigmaps, you might want to have a look in the /image/maps folders.
Whiskeyjack wrote: - If I remember correctly, the Drakes live at Lake Vrug? Are they part of the NA or just friendly towards them after NR (assuming the Krag route in both cases)?
Judging from the 10th scenario of Eastern Invasion, there are mostly trolls and gryphons up there (as well as some lonely mages and madman as depicted in the geography of wesnoth).

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Aldarisvet
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Re: The Silver Age

Post by Aldarisvet » October 13th, 2015, 12:52 pm

Whiskeyjack wrote:Hm, I gues I´ll have to replay HoT and SotBE too.
Hi. Possibly no need to replay, it tooks lot of time. May be enoough to read all dialogs to refresh memory.
http://wiki.wesnoth.org/CampaignDialogue:THoT
http://wiki.wesnoth.org/CampaignDialogue:SotBE

All campaigns dialogues are here:
http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Category:Writing

I post this a bit late, but hopefully this link would be useful for some others too. A bit more pleasant than to read dialogs from .cfg files.
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Whiskeyjack
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Re: The Silver Age

Post by Whiskeyjack » October 13th, 2015, 4:28 pm

Well, there are two things that speak against that: The campaign dialogues are sometimes outdated and have wrong lines (sometimes this affects the bigger plot and not only small details).
Secondly, I´m of the opinion that if you want to go as deep into the matter as I did, you need to get a feeling for the whole campaign/scenario, which includes: The campaign map movement, the scenario map and the gameplay of said scenario (especially details like fog/shroud/WML-events/...).

If you just want to take a quike reference or ctrl-f the whole campaign instead of each individual file, the page is quite helpfull.
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name
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Re: The Silver Age

Post by name » October 13th, 2015, 5:15 pm

Whiskeyjack wrote: - Who inhabits the Swamp of Dread?
In LoW, landar wholesale slaughters what seems to be the capital of a well developed (relatively speaking) saurian polity in the swamp of dread. This wipes the city off the map for later campaigns but it seems reasonable to assume that the wider saurian populace survives, given the size of the region. It may also be be an occasional hiding place for undead, as in HttT.
Whiskeyjack wrote: - Which territory is part of the NA? If I remember correctly, the elves of NR are from Lintanir (are they actually part of the NA?) and thus from quite far east, while Wesmere has nothing to do with the NA? The territory between Dwarven Doors/The Ford of Abez and Wesmere/The Swamp of Dread respectively looks pretty small for all the humans and orcs on the other hand.
What about all of those foothills north/north-east of the swamp of dread? In earlier eras this seemed to be orc territory but perhaps not any longer?

By the era of SotBE humans have invaded formerly orcish occupied lands almost all the way to the northernmost coast in places. So after the formation of the NA, you would probably see some kind of progress with northward human expansion towards such an end.
Whiskeyjack wrote: - Assuming the dispute road: This one would be clearer having a cold neutrality between the NA and Lintanir Forest. But then who are the Elves of the NA? Do the Wesmere Elves enter at a later time?
It is unclear if Lintanir and Wesmere are separate polities, or the same one referred to often as the "North Elves".

Also flavor wise, it seems like the core northern alliance is Dwarves + Humans. Other, stronger polities may have a much looser alliance with the NA. For example, the NA itself is a confederation of sorts, but that confederation could have a mutual defense pact with the north elves. Yet the north elves are not a part of the NA confederation.
Whiskeyjack wrote:- If I remember correctly, the Drakes live at Lake Vrug? Are they part of the NA or just friendly towards them after NR (assuming the Krag route in both cases)?
IIRC, they have multiple polities in the northern wilderness, each centered around an area of volcanic activity but from there encompassing a huge surrounding territory.

By "krag" did you mean "krash" or is that another drake character outside of NR?
Whiskeyjack wrote: - How would you deal with building the NA considering the very different stance of Lintanir Elves/Drakes towards the NA depending on the route you play it?
Enough time has passed that whatever alliances there were back then may have eroded, broken or simply held together, depending on changing circumstances and leaders. Additionally for the Drakes, they do not seem to have one overriding government, but some kind of independent feudal or tribal societies. Some drakes could be allies and others neutral and others enemies of the NA, all during the same time period.
Whiskeyjack wrote: - Is Glamdrol part of the NA? What race(s) does it belong to?
It is an orcish settlement, perhaps the first orcish settlement on the great continent since it is closest to where they make landfall in tRoW.

But by the silver age, its current status could be anything. Maybe the NA/Wesmere/Elensfar finally counterattacked and burned it to the ground, overran and repopulated it, etc.

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