Are there secret organizations in Wesnoth?

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Are there secret organizations in Wesnoth?

Postby Aldarisvet » February 27th, 2015, 8:44 am

Hi everyone.

The question i have in subject, and i used 'search' button on word 'secret' in this forum about this before asking. And i found nothing related im looking for.

The only hint i found about such thing in Wesnoth, somewhat close im looking for, is silver mage order.

_____________
They have, in fact, their own order amongst the ranks of magi, an order which withholds certain secrets from their peers. One of these is an apparent ability to cross great distances, faster than one could possibly travel on foot. Members of the silver order ardently refuse to discuss the workings of this with any of their fellow magi, and on those rare occasions when others have pried into their work, they have abandoned the endeavor, never to speak of it again.
_____________

Why i am asking about it? For my campaign storyline i need some organization, independent from crown, that have large resources and can recruit and train neophytes (possible even from different races), and also make missions for them. Have some ideology about maintining the balance between races and other bla-bla-bla, all typical for secret organizations.
Last edited by Aldarisvet on February 28th, 2015, 1:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Is there secret organizations in Wesnoth?

Postby Raijer » February 27th, 2015, 6:49 pm

Well actually, i don't remember seeing any secret organisation in mainline, and i can't think about anything precise concerning the silver mages. So, if you've got the ideas, i think you could actually fill that gap in the cannon by explaining a little more the gears behind that specific order. That's the good thing about Wesnoth, if nothing has been written about it, you're nearly free to create whatever you want. Make the silver-mages like the illuminatis or simply book worms that spent their lives studying how to teleport, it doesn't change much, as long as it's well-written and interesting. Of course, try to check the cannon before writing. For example, things like making all the mages demon worshippers would be too much, and would collide with already-established cannon.

So, no secret organisations (that i know of), but you can adapt the silver mage order to your story, i think.
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Re: Is there secret organizations in Wesnoth?

Postby Aldarisvet » February 27th, 2015, 8:00 pm

2 Raijer

That's the good thing about Wesnoth, if nothing has been written about it, you're nearly free to create whatever you want.


Thank you for answer, and ur answer is really encouraging. Im not going to invent things controversial with common fantasy standarts.
What i really needed is that
1) There is a powerful independent order.
2) That order can recruit neophytes
3) That neophytes and more experienced members of order doing 'special operation' missions for order.

So at least part of my campaign (part of main hero life and some of scenarios) will be in doing that special missions. So u think this is ok, thats good. I think community can accept such idea about secret order.

Next thing i want to specify is racial question. I want that in my campaign there would be heroes from different races (and not just classical alliance human+elves+dwarves). I saw that in Nothern Rebirth there is some interracial collecitve of heroes, including even drake, whom they found somewere in dungeons, but i want more solid ground for such iterracial collective then 'i just saved him so he joined our company'.

What I am thinking - if members of that secret order can teleport on large distances, they can have relationships with many races which lives far apart. Often in fantasy worlds different races are living together or at least trade so actively that some little communities of exotic race living in human cities. In Wesnoth as i know, elves was living at Elensefar. Dwarves was trading with humans too, so for me no doubt elves and dwarves could be a members of such order (and so most skilled of them have ability to teleport ).

I have following questions then:

So can be drake a member of such order?
Can be an orc a member of such order? Is it possible that exists orc who is not 'bad'?
Can be mermaid a member of such order?

Hmm, im not asking about saurians, for me they too much lizard-like, more than drakes, i dont like them do be in order). And that Khalifate guys, they humans, so i think they definetely can be in order.
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Re: Is there secret organizations in Wesnoth?

Postby Dugi » February 27th, 2015, 9:48 pm

I haven't heard of any campaign containing an illuminati-like secret organisation, so you're most likely free to create anything.

The only limitation is logic, a drake would be an obvious stranger in most human societies, but if he was collaborating with them but living with other drakes, it would not be conflictive. Though as far as I know, drakes' society might be quite xenophobic and drakes might be too honest to join such an organisation. Wesnoth's orcs don't have to be necessarily evil, as you might have seen in Son of the Black Eye, they don't fight just to do evil. They are chaotic and fight other orcs as much as they fight humans, so as long as the orc gets beyond his desire to fight, he might end up on the good side. Mermaid should have no problem about being a member, as long as they have enough clean water in their base.
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Re: Is there secret organizations in Wesnoth?

Postby max_torch » February 28th, 2015, 1:25 am

There,s the shadow mages in the campaign 'liberty'. They tread the edge of dark and light magic. check that out. Definitely theeir order is suited for carrying out 'missions'. Check their dialog in the campaign to know more about them.
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Re: Is there secret organizations in Wesnoth?

Postby johndh » February 28th, 2015, 2:18 am

What i really needed is that
1) There is a powerful independent order.
2) That order can recruit neophytes
3) That neophytes and more experienced members of order doing 'special operation' missions for order.

The guild of thieves (whether this is many different guilds or one guild with many chapters) is one secret organization, but it's not clear to me what their role is or what they do. At minimum, they probably serve to arbitrate territory and disputes among various criminal elements and negotiate deals and bribes with corrupt officials/executives. Whether or not they take direct action, I have no idea.

Another secret group is the group of shadow mages in Liberty, who protect each other while they study forbidden magic in the wilderness, and they end up lending support to a rebellion. I could imagine them (or a splinter group) using teleportation magic and trying to manipulate world events.

Aldarisvet wrote:So can be drake a member of such order?
Can be an orc a member of such order? Is it possible that exists orc who is not 'bad'?
Can be mermaid a member of such order?

Is there a good reason why they would want to? Humans and mermaids don't really concern each other for the most part. Drakes and orcs at least have the potential to share (and compete over) territory with humans, but what goals would they have that overlap?
It's spelled "definitely", not "definately". "Defiantly" is a different word entirely.
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Re: Is there secret organizations in Wesnoth?

Postby Aldarisvet » February 28th, 2015, 11:11 am

2 max_torch, johndh

The shadow mages was actually the first thing i had thought for, but for me they dont have enough power. The scale of that organization is too small for my purporses, they just outlaws that hiding in that forest.
Opposite, the silver mage order is LEGAL in empire and can freely travel through the human cities.

And why i need interracial collective - its just very technical. I need in my 'special operate groups' units with different special abilities.
For example, i need poisoner, so i need either level3 assassin or level1-2 orc poisoner.

Imagine fun of having special ops group with 1) theif/orc poisoner 2) mermaid/elvish slower/ 3) elvish/human healer and so on, i dont want specify all ideas now. This opens large tactical possibilities/combinations that is totally unknown when u play all campaign just for one balanced race.

And why silver mage guild also - yes, i want that silver mage unit in my group too. It is too good and intresting special ablility that i never seen was used in campaigns, and that ability can be played for some good tactical combinations too.

And by the way, the membership of such group woudnt be always the same of course. For example one mission can be for 1-2-3 levels, then, after mission completing, some of heroes that get expirience with u, gone for another task of order, and u get another heroes with special abilities so there would be no problem of overexpirienced heroes. But for last battle may be all heroes would be gathered together.
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Re: Is there secret organizations in Wesnoth?

Postby Raijer » February 28th, 2015, 12:54 pm

If you want different races, i doubt the silver mage order will fit, as the ways the different races handle magic are quite different: the drakes don't really have any other than their natural fire, elves use the fairy world, human create spells and such to master the elements... And only humans can teleport. The shadow mages seem indeed too weak for what you have in mind, and have the same problem: there usually are humans.

Taking that in mind, seems like the guild of thieves is the only option. It could be some kind of network all over the country, which would help fugitives from anywhere (here's where you can push in different races, but maybe also fugitive silver mages that experimented a little too far and got banned from the order), and would be paid for shadow works, such as assassinations, but also more legal ones like protecting merchants. All in all, the guild of thieves fits what you want perfectly:
1) quite powerful if you make it one network all over the country, and independent because it's hidden in the shadows, working from behind the scenes,
2) can recruit anyone that seems useful/is in trouble with the law, and doesn't really care about which race people are,
3) They are usually asked to do some missions, be it for the guild's interest or for a stranger, as long as he pays.
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Re: Is there secret organizations in Wesnoth?

Postby nuorc » February 28th, 2015, 1:07 pm

Aldarisvet wrote:And why i need interracial collective - its just very technical. I need in my 'special operate groups' units with different special abilities.
For example, i need poisoner, so i need either level3 assassin or level1-2 orc poisoner.
No, you don't. As an author, you can give any unit any weapon, item, ability...

Aldarisvet wrote:Imagine fun of having special ops group with 1) theif/orc poisoner 2) mermaid/elvish slower/ 3) elvish/human healer and so on, i dont want specify all ideas now. This opens large tactical possibilities/combinations that is totally unknown when u play all campaign just for one balanced race.
Reminds me of organization PYRA. ;)
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Re: Are there secret organizations in Wesnoth?

Postby Aldarisvet » February 28th, 2015, 4:38 pm

2 nuorc

No, you don't. As an author, you can give any unit any weapon, item, ability...

I dont want to create special units for heroes.
First, it is not easy to make it with good graphics. And u know about my goal.
Second, i want to show non-discovered potential of that units, that Wesnoth already have, not creating some super-heroes that have, for example, both berserker and flying abilities. So most of my 'special ops group' heroes would be definetely simple units from Wesnoth core.

Reminds me of organization PYRA.


Sorry, i have no idea what is this.

---

2 Raijer

If you want different races, i doubt the silver mage order will fit, as the ways the different races handle magic are quite different: the drakes don't really have any other than their natural fire, elves use the fairy world, human create spells and such to master the elements... And only humans can teleport. The shadow mages seem indeed too weak for what you have in mind, and have the same problem: there usually are humans.

Taking that in mind, seems like the guild of thieves is the only option. It could be some kind of network all over the country, which would help fugitives from anywhere (here's where you can push in different races, but maybe also fugitive silver mages that experimented a little too far and got banned from the order), and would be paid for shadow works, such as assassinations, but also more legal ones like protecting merchants. All in all, the guild of thieves fits what you want perfectly:
1) quite powerful if you make it one network all over the country, and independent because it's hidden in the shadows, working from behind the scenes,
2) can recruit anyone that seems useful/is in trouble with the law, and doesn't really care about which race people are,
3) They are usually asked to do some missions, be it for the guild's interest or for a stranger, as long as he pays.


Sorry i dont like idea of thieves guild, mostly cause i dont want my campaign to be about 'bad' organization. Speaking in terms of Forgotten Realms (ever played Baldurs Gate?), i prefer Harpers, not Thieves Guild.
So if only humans have ability to teleport, its ok, the Silver Mage guild would be just a part, may be a core part or just connective (cause of teleportation ability) part of larger secret order, that unify all races.

But still, i can understood why human cant use elvish nature magic, but definetely, why elf or dwarf cant learn art of spells? I see no problem with it, just high intellect and some talent is needed.

For me this organization going to be not about thieving. Part of its activity is searching for talented childs, then they study in some schools, for different arts, including magic, art of using sword, art of stealth and so on, then some of them go to serve for the king or local landmasters and became advisers for them, others using time for searching old artifacts or hunting necromancers, or even killing undead for money that locals can afford. The organization must be legal, even cooperative with crown and local power, even incorporated on power branches, but still independent. And it can recruit on membership anyone for his purposes, just an ordinary local bureaucrat, for example. Part of its activity is legal, part is hidden. Yes, its classical illuminaty construction, so its not about organization only, its about some cult, interracial cult.

---

2 dugi

Though as far as I know, drakes' society might be quite xenophobic and drakes might be too honest to join such an organisation.


Then drakes cant largely be members of such orgainzation, except exceptional situations like 'we saved him when he was little child and he growed with us and became member of us'.
Not a big loss actually, drakes dont have good special abilities except flying, but dwarf gryphon riders can fly too.

---

Wow i see that Khalifate have really intesting unit - melee marksman and same time melee slower!
Definetely im going to have that Ghazi-Shuja hero in my campaign!

---

What is good classical tactical multiracial combination:

First u use slowing on enemy, then finish him with berserker (u remember that dwarves dont have slowers).
So if u have both elvish druid and gnome berserker, its and ideal pair. I was using this combination in Bruning Suns, as i remember.

But in my campaign i doubt that elvish druid could be a member of secret order, cause druids must live in forest with trees. So i am happy that there are slowers in Khalifate.
Last edited by shadowm on February 28th, 2015, 7:49 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Reason: Merged five consecutive posts.
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Re: Are there secret organizations in Wesnoth?

Postby shadowm » February 28th, 2015, 7:47 pm

@Aldarisvet:

Read what I said here about multi-posting. I’m not going to repeat myself again.
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Re: Are there secret organizations in Wesnoth?

Postby Aldarisvet » February 28th, 2015, 8:27 pm

shadowm wrote:@Aldarisvet:

Read what I said here about multi-posting. I’m not going to repeat myself again.


Uh, sorry. You just should write directly that multiposting is prohibited in this forum. Often in forums its ok if you use 1 post for answering to one person. I myself dont like big posts, but of course, rules is rules. Just i never seen such rule before, being admin on some commercial forum for many years never felt bad about multiposting.

Oh, i see that txtspk is prohibited here in forum rules, i will use no more short language, sorry. But there is nothing there about multiposting - viewtopic.php?t=24277 :D
I just had no experince in international forums before, just in different multiplayer servers were all use sms-language.
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Re: Are there secret organizations in Wesnoth?

Postby Ravana » February 28th, 2015, 8:58 pm

Aldarisvet wrote:Oh, i see that txtspk is prohibited here in forum rules, i will use no more short language, sorry. But there is nothing there about multiposting - viewtopic.php?t=24277 :D
I just had no experince in international forums before, just in different multiplayer servers were all use sms-language.

viewtopic.php?t=24277#w0spam
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Re: Are there secret organizations in Wesnoth?

Postby nuorc » February 28th, 2015, 10:19 pm

Aldarisvet wrote:
Reminds me of organization PYRA.

Sorry, i have no idea what is this.

Sorry, I was too lazy before to look for the link: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=32241

Basically you can build a custom faction from existing units; e.g. for 100 gold you can pick Dark Adept, Berserker, Assasin, Shaman... and then recruit those units in-game.


Actually, maybe you could use that concept and let the player decide himself what kind of units he wants to choose for a certain mission.
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Re: Are there secret organizations in Wesnoth?

Postby Aldarisvet » February 28th, 2015, 10:45 pm

Sorry, I was too lazy before to look for the link: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=32241


Uh, and i just googled it and found nothing, wasnt clear for me it is something wesnothian, i thought it is something like IRA :D

For me each level must have certain idea, its like chess endgame study. You get some material and u have to find suitable tactics. Not going to give too much flexibility to player :twisted:
Not going to give even ability to recruit in most levels (recalls - so money dont help much). But this is not for this topic. Testing scenario1 now...

.....

I have another question!

Is there half-elves in Wesnoth? Can a child be born from human female and elf male, or conversely?
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