Proposed Race Description For Wose

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Re: Proposed Race Description For Wose

Postby johndh » June 15th, 2013, 3:48 am

It is believed that the existence of the woses may predate ˻the settlement˼ of the Great Continent itself [If you’re referring to human settlement, then I’d think that would be obvious. If you’re referring to some other race, then that should be made explicit, due to the manual being written from the human-centric perspective of a human scholar.], and that the power of faerie has given these beings the eternal task of serving as wardens of the forest.

How about this: "Woses are believed to be some of the oldest creatures in the world, perhaps even more ancient than the forests in which they dwell." Perhaps more simply, "Woses are thought to predate all but the oldest creatures of the known world."

Regarding the descriptions of the shamans' powers and their vulnerability to fire, etc., I would prefer not to reference game mechanics this directly in the prose.

It is thought that unless a wose falls in battle, it will find no natural end.

I particularly like the turn of phrase of "it will find no natural end."

As their lives progress, some woses gain deeper insight into the workings of their forests, and the power to bend them to their will. These shamans, through their connection with the woodland flora, can command vines to rise up and entangle those who would trespass upon their domain, hindering both the arm that might swing an axe and the legs that might haste an escape. This dominion over the normally inanimate foliage of the forest is beyond the knowledge of human magi.

Since this references game mechanics fairly explicitly and also applies to a specific unit, I think this would make a great unit description (or part thereof) for the Wose Shaman. I don't think that it belongs in the general race description.
It's spelled "definitely", not "definately". "Defiantly" is a different word entirely.
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Re: Proposed Race Description For Wose

Postby the_beagle » June 18th, 2013, 4:17 am

The input is great friends, I greatly appreciate it and I will incorporate it as soon as possible, most likely tomorrow evening! Nit-picking is absolutely welcomed! Point taken about the wose shaman, however I did not realize that race names were not capitalized. Thank you for pointing that out. I'm sorry I cannot directly mention all the contributions for this round of editing, I gave them a quick cursory look (it was a hectic evening). Again I will begin implementing changes tomorrow. Thank you all!
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Re: Proposed Race Description For Wose

Postby the_beagle » June 19th, 2013, 5:41 am

Thank you all for the input! I feel as though some great corrections were suggested and some big changes were required. I have rewritten the description with MOST of the proposed changes. Some suggestions I have not used, yet, because I believe some proposed corrections don’t best suit the description. That said, I have not ignored a single suggestion (I hope) attached to this description is a reference to each and every proposed change this round. In it I personally address each contributor from this round and give both kudos (all you guys deserve so much thanks) and my reasoning for changes I did not make. As I said no suggestions were ignored and even though I may not have acted on some suggestions they are certainly still up for debate, I have given my reasons for leaving some “stuff” as it is I would love to hear your thoughts and if we still believe changes need to be made that can be done! Again thank you all so much for the input please peruse the description and offer your opinions and suggestions, we are nearing the final rounds of editing, I feel, and the piece is looking even more polished by the day, thanks to the input of all of you!

Wose
The mighty wose resides within the deepest forests of the known world. To the untrained eye, the wose appears to be nothing more than a noble, if not oddly shaped, tree. As guardians of the forest, the woses share a deeper connection to the woodlands than even the elves. While the woses are a peaceful race, disturbance of the ancient forests, which they tend, will incite the wrath of nature itself. Woses are slow moving creatures that may spend centuries standing in one location undisturbed by the ebb and flow of time.

Although they practice no magic of their own, the woses share a deep connection to faerie. What little is known of this ancient race comes from elvish scholars who believe that this mystical power, which the mightiest slyphs and shydes dedicate their lives to master, is inherent to the wose. Though woses resemble them, they share no ancestry with trees. Woses are believed to be some of the oldest creatures in the world, perhaps even more ancient than the forests in which they dwell, and it is thought that the power of faerie has given these beings the eternal task of serving as wardens of the forest.

Woses are not warlike in the least and are ill-accustomed to combat. They will however respond with indiscriminate violence in defense of their forested territory. Woses are slow moving and are vulnerable away from the woodlands. Due to their close connection with faerie, woses are particularly sensitive to the arcane. The hardwood that makes the wose nigh-impervious to physical assault has left it grievously vulnerable to flame. Their thick bark and ability to harness the power of faerie to regenerate quickly when injured allows the wose to survive an enemy onslaught long enough to respond with a crushing might belied by its peaceful, plodding nature. Within its forest home, the Wose can disappear amongst the trees and ambush even the best-trained elvish scout.

The life span of the wose is unknown, although the most ancient members of this race have lived many hundreds of years and have grown to massive heights. It is thought that unless a wose falls in battle, it will find no natural end. Content to pass the centuries standing like a sentry, uninterested in the goings-on of the civilized world, the wose will stir only to march to the defense of the natural world and the forests it calls home.

NOTES:

8680: As Zookeeper pointed out there is no concept of an anthropomorphic natural being ie: Mother Nature, in canon. For this reason I edited the original statement, removing Mother Nature and leaving the wrath of nature fairly ambiguous: it could be a fierce storm, a tsunami, a flood, a bolt of lightning, any sort of embodied natural violence the reader seeks to imprint on my description. I understand your confusion regarding the following sentence: To the untrained eye, the wose appears to be nothing more than a noble, if not oddly shaped, tree. In this context, if not actually means something like this: To the untrained eye, the wose appears to be nothing more than a noble, yet oddly shaped, tree. It’s an older form of description that I used to give the description a less “modern English feel”. I felt it was an apt description given the fact that wose have slightly human features molded into their natural, rugged look. Inasmuch they have a non sequitur look to them. In regards to this sentence: Woses are not warlike in the least and are ill-served in combat. Units.wesnoth.org states that “Woses are utterly unwarlike, but possess a great strength. They are, however, neither used to, nor quick at moving around.” And I would supply that wose, with their only attack being a double melee attack, their low terrain value outside forest, slow movement: do them no favors in combat. However I agree both with Zookeeper and you, their ambush and regeneration abilities, high resistances to some attacks, and high damage output makes them a formidable opponent, they aren’t weak. I agree that saying “ill-served in combat” is not the best description, and to instead add “ill-accustomed to combat”. The first suggests they are weak, the second simply suggests they don’t go looking for “fights” and don’t organize fighting forces as the other races do. Is this agreeable? What were you recommending Wiktionary for? I especially like your substitution of nigh-impervious, that is very appropriate language for the setting! Since woses suffer no extra damage to blade, 40% resistance to impact, and a massive (relatively) 60% resistance to piercing attacks I (PERSONALLY) believe it is fair to say that most units, which sport conventional attacks, will find the wose very difficult to dispatch before the wose’s massive damage overcomes them. Of course this is my own impression and if you or anyone else still disagrees, after taking into account my explanation, I can always change it! As for the wose shaman, I see a distinction between magic and their entangle ability. Magic or arcane has a high chance of hitting, whereas entangle is terrain dependent and is simply listed as ranged/impact. In my opinion this can safely be attributed to their grasp of faerie power and not be considered arcane/magical. What is your opinion of this? Am I taking too many liberties or is this an adequate assumption?

Lord-Knightmare: Thank you very much, I can't thank you guys enough for the input and corrections, I tend to miss little corrections in my own writing, like the one you just pointed out! Again thank you!

Kanzil: It’s a very good thing you caught that little typo, I totally missed it! Thank you!

Johndh: I like your proposed rewrite, after reviewing the timeline (which makes no explicit reference to elves EVER coming from outside the Great Continent) I believe your description of the Wose predating even their own forests is apt. I have modified the resistances and weaknesses, taking into account 8680’s input as well, do they look less like game mechanic references and more like a passable description of a “living creature”? I believe (personally) that these revised references to the strengths and weaknesses of woses contribute meaningfully to the paragraph and topic that they accompany and should not be totally removed, HOWEVER of course I would believe that, after all I wrote it, so your input is important, should I cut it out, or do the revisions fix the game mechanics reference issue? As for the Wose Shaman section, I love 8680’s rewriting and was excited about using it, however after looking at the paragraph alone I fully agree with you. It reads like a unit description and will function very well in that capacity, when its time comes.

Again, thank you all so much for the continued additions the changes made this round of editing, I feel, greatly strengthened the description as a whole! There were many small updates and changes and some sweeping changes, paragraph deletion and the rephrasing of descriptions, please do not hesitate to offer any corrections or substitutions!
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Re: Proposed Race Description For Wose

Postby 8680 » June 19th, 2013, 5:23 pm

Reply to the_beagle:
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Re: Proposed Race Description For Wose

Postby zookeeper » June 19th, 2013, 7:33 pm

As for the shaman, I'd rather see all of it go to its unit description rather than the race description. There's probably a lot of different kinds of woses with different kinds of features, abilities and affinities (even though we've only seen two types) and the differences between them aren't very relevant in their "society" and thus the individual perks of one particular kind of wose aren't very relevant to the race description either.

All the rest seems spot-on, including the arcane/nature/faerie thing.
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Re: Proposed Race Description For Wose

Postby the_beagle » June 23rd, 2013, 8:11 pm

First off: 8680- Thanks for the input! I didn't even register that little faux pas, I'm not surprised it's a common misspelling. I've decided to take your advice and change the phrasing to {a noble,yet an oddly shaped, tree} it just makes sense, as you said if one person misreads it; it's likely that many people will!

Second: Zookeeper
As for the shaman, I'd rather see all of it go to its unit description rather than the race description. There's probably a lot of different kinds of woses with different kinds of features, abilities and affinities (even though we've only seen two types) and the differences between them aren't very relevant in their "society" and thus the individual perks of one particular kind of wose aren't very relevant to the race description either.

All the rest seems spot-on, including the arcane/nature/faerie thing.


That line of reasoning makes a great deal of sense. If the community or powers-that-be find this race description acceptable I will likely go on and address other blank race types, or revisit existing unit types (as per other users suggestions and requests) and the Wose Shaman portions could be used at that time. That said, thanks for the input and suggestions, I'm glad you find the rest agreeable!

Third: To all on this thread- The changes made this round of editing were very small, mostly linguistic changes! In my opinion there is very little this description needs, thanks to the great buy-in I've had from everyone who has given their time to edit, offer suggestions, or share their unique knowledge! I don't know where this goes from here but, as always, if corrections are still apparent feel free to point them out!

Wose
The mighty wose resides within the deepest forests of the known world. To the untrained eye, the wose appears to be nothing more than a noble, yet oddly shaped, tree. As guardians of the forest, the woses share a deeper connection to the woodlands than even the elves. While the woses are a peaceful race, disturbance of the ancient forests, which they tend, will incite the wrath of nature itself. Woses are slow moving creatures that may spend centuries standing in one location undisturbed by the ebb and flow of time.

Although they practice no magic of their own, the woses share a deep connection to faerie. What little is known of this ancient race comes from elvish scholars who believe that this mystical power, which the mightiest slyphs and shydes dedicate their lives to master, is inherent to the wose. Though woses resemble them, they share no ancestry with trees. Woses are believed to be some of the oldest creatures in the world, perhaps even more ancient than the forests in which they dwell, and it is thought that the power of faerie has given these beings the eternal task of serving as wardens of the forest.

Woses are not warlike in the least and are ill-accustomed to combat. They will however respond with indiscriminate violence in defense of their forested territory. Woses are slow moving and are vulnerable away from the woodlands. Due to their close connection with faerie, woses are particularly sensitive to the arcane. The hardwood that makes the wose nigh-impervious to physical assault has left it grievously vulnerable to flame. Their thick bark and ability to harness the power of faerie to regenerate quickly when injured allows the wose to survive an enemy onslaught long enough to respond with a crushing might belied by its peaceful, plodding nature. Within its forest home, the Wose can disappear amongst the trees and ambush even the best-trained elvish scout.

The life span of the wose is unknown, although the most ancient members of this race have lived many hundreds of years and have grown to massive heights. It is thought that unless a wose falls in battle, it will find no natural end. Content to pass the centuries standing like a sentry, uninterested in the goings-on of the civilized world, the wose will stir only to march to the defense of the natural world and the forests it calls home.
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Re: Proposed Race Description For Wose

Postby 8680 » June 23rd, 2013, 9:29 pm

I forgot to mention that someone who I discussed this with (one of “those who know more about such things”) suggested “oddly shaped, yet noble” rather than “noble, yet oddly shaped”, which I also prefer.

I also forgot to mention that I particularly like your replacement of “extremely” with “grievously”.
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Re: Proposed Race Description For Wose

Postby the_beagle » June 30th, 2013, 5:20 pm

8680 wrote:I forgot to mention that someone who I discussed this with (one of “those who know more about such things”) suggested “oddly shaped, yet noble” rather than “noble, yet oddly shaped”, which I also prefer.

I also forgot to mention that I particularly like your replacement of “extremely” with “grievously”.


I agree, and have made the change accordingly; it does give it better "flow". Thank you, I think grievously fits much better than extremely!
With that change, here it is.

Wose
The mighty wose resides within the deepest forests of the known world. To the untrained eye, the wose appears to be nothing more than an oddly shaped, yet noble, tree. As guardians of the forest, the woses share a deeper connection to the woodlands than even the elves. While the woses are a peaceful race, disturbance of the ancient forests, which they tend, will incite the wrath of nature itself. Woses are slow moving creatures that may spend centuries standing in one location undisturbed by the ebb and flow of time.

Although they practice no magic of their own, the woses share a deep connection to faerie. What little is known of this ancient race comes from elvish scholars who believe that this mystical power, which the mightiest slyphs and shydes dedicate their lives to master, is inherent to the wose. Though woses resemble them, they share no ancestry with trees. Woses are believed to be some of the oldest creatures in the world, perhaps even more ancient than the forests in which they dwell, and it is thought that the power of faerie has given these beings the eternal task of serving as wardens of the forest.

Woses are not warlike in the least and are ill-accustomed to combat. They will however respond with indiscriminate violence in defense of their forested territory. Woses are slow moving and are vulnerable away from the woodlands. Due to their close connection with faerie, woses are particularly sensitive to the arcane. The hardwood that makes the wose nigh-impervious to physical assault has left it grievously vulnerable to flame. Their thick bark and ability to harness the power of faerie to regenerate quickly when injured allows the wose to survive an enemy onslaught long enough to respond with a crushing might belied by its peaceful, plodding nature. Within its forest home, the wose can disappear amongst the trees and ambush even the best-trained elvish scout.

The life span of the wose is unknown, although the most ancient members of this race have lived many hundreds of years and have grown to massive heights. It is thought that unless a wose falls in battle, it will find no natural end. Content to pass the centuries standing like a sentry, uninterested in the goings-on of the civilized world, the wose will stir only to march to the defense of the natural world and the forests it calls home.
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Re: Proposed Race Description For Wose

Postby zookeeper » July 6th, 2013, 8:03 am

Looks plenty good enough to go in.
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Re: Proposed Race Description For Wose

Postby shadowm » July 6th, 2013, 8:43 am

the_beagle wrote:What little is known of this ancient race comes from elvish scholars who believe that this mystical power, which the mightiest slyphs and shydes dedicate their lives to master, is inherent to the wose.

You misspelled “sylphs”.

This is really just my opinion and I’m not an authority on mainline prose in any way whatsoever, but whenever unit types are explicitly named like that outside of their own descriptions it feels like a blatant reminder that this is a game following a limited set of rules and that somehow the world depicted is limited to what the game proper has to offer... which actually isn’t true, particularly in this case where there can be additional elvish units (chiefly from UMC) or non-units (in-universe historical characters and such) with a similar—if not outright superior—mastery of the powers alluded to by the text.
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Re: Proposed Race Description For Wose

Postby the_beagle » July 9th, 2013, 9:47 pm

zookeeper wrote:Looks plenty good enough to go in.

Thank you! I believe it is very close to a finished work, Shadowmaster may be on to something.

You misspelled “sylphs”.

This is really just my opinion and I’m not an authority on mainline prose in any way whatsoever, but whenever unit types are explicitly named like that outside of their own descriptions it feels like a blatant reminder that this is a game following a limited set of rules and that somehow the world depicted is limited to what the game proper has to offer... which actually isn’t true, particularly in this case where there can be additional elvish units (chiefly from UMC) or non-units (in-universe historical characters and such) with a similar—if not outright superior—mastery of the powers alluded to by the text.


Thank you for that spelling correction. I think you have a point. There is a great big world that hasn't yet been explored by mainline (maybe it never will), and a plethora of UMC. I think the sylph and shydes portion can be rewritten to be much more vague and encompassing. Perhaps something along the lines of "the greatest elvish scholars" or something to that extent. Again thanks for the input, there is definitely something there. The updated version will be up soon.
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Re: Proposed Race Description For Wose

Postby the_beagle » July 9th, 2013, 9:54 pm

Hello all, Zookeeper thank you for your encouragement! Shadowmaster thank you for your suggestion. I have reworked the sentence to read as follows: "What little is known of this ancient race comes from elvish scholars who believe that this mystical power, which the mightiest elves have dedicated their lives to master, is inherent to the wose." I considered using wisest, and I am not exactly sure if I like the wording as it is now; however I believe it is better than when it referenced actual units. Does anyone have any suggestions on this? Or do you believe the change is adequate? Again thank you all for the input, every change we makes brings us closer to a finished work!

Wose
The mighty wose resides within the deepest forests of the known world. To the untrained eye, the wose appears to be nothing more than an oddly shaped, yet noble, tree. As guardians of the forest, the woses share a deeper connection to the woodlands than even the elves. While the woses are a peaceful race, disturbance of the ancient forests, which they tend, will incite the wrath of nature itself. Woses are slow moving creatures that may spend centuries standing in one location undisturbed by the ebb and flow of time.

Although they practice no magic of their own, the woses share a deep connection to faerie. What little is known of this ancient race comes from elvish scholars who believe that this mystical power, which the mightiest elves have dedicated their lives to master, is inherent to the wose. Though woses resemble them, they share no ancestry with trees. Woses are believed to be some of the oldest creatures in the world, perhaps even more ancient than the forests in which they dwell, and it is thought that the power of faerie has given these beings the eternal task of serving as wardens of the forest.

Woses are not warlike in the least and are ill-accustomed to combat. They will however respond with indiscriminate violence in defense of their forested territory. Woses are slow moving and are vulnerable away from the woodlands. Due to their close connection with faerie, woses are particularly sensitive to the arcane. The hardwood that makes the wose nigh-impervious to physical assault has left it grievously vulnerable to flame. Their thick bark and ability to harness the power of faerie to regenerate quickly when injured allows the wose to survive an enemy onslaught long enough to respond with a crushing might belied by its peaceful, plodding nature. Within its forest home, the wose can disappear amongst the trees and ambush even the best-trained elvish scout.

The life span of the wose is unknown, although the most ancient members of this race have lived many hundreds of years and have grown to massive heights. It is thought that unless a wose falls in battle, it will find no natural end. Content to pass the centuries standing like a sentry, uninterested in the goings-on of the civilized world, the wose will stir only to march to the defense of the natural world and the forests it calls home.
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Re: Proposed Race Description For Wose

Postby shadowm » July 11th, 2013, 9:08 am

the_beagle wrote:I have reworked the sentence to read as follows: "What little is known of this ancient race comes from elvish scholars who believe that this mystical power, which the mightiest elves have dedicated their lives to master, is inherent to the wose." I considered using wisest, and I am not exactly sure if I like the wording as it is now; however I believe it is better than when it referenced actual units. Does anyone have any suggestions on this? Or do you believe the change is adequate? Again thank you all for the input, every change we makes brings us closer to a finished work!

I like the replacement. ‘Mightiest’ seems to refer to a far more active and transcending role than ‘wisest’ (practice vs. theory), which is good in this context.

I don’t see any problems with the rest of the description (once again, noting that I’m not an authority on the matter).
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Re: Proposed Race Description For Wose

Postby shadowm » July 16th, 2013, 6:34 am

Committed for version 1.11.6 at zookeeper’s request.
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Re: Proposed Race Description For Wose

Postby Xudo » July 21st, 2015, 8:27 pm

According to http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Drúedain
In appearance, the Woses were short, stumpy-bodied men, possibly related to the Púkel-men of ancient Rohan. They had disproportionate bodies and small, sunken eyes that glowed red when they were angry or suspicious.

Woses are not trees at all.
But description based on concept "woses are trees" is really great and well thought.
Should I assume that term "wose" in Wesnoth have local and unique meaning?
This is important in translation. Should I use translation of canonical name "Ent" or other term, which is about human-like being related to forest?
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