Can Wesnoth be more than just a great game?

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fabi
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Re: Can Wesnoth be more than just a great game?

Post by fabi »

pyrophorus wrote:
shadowmaster wrote:That is an incredibly wrong and limited perception of how Wesnoth development works.
Are you serious ?
I noticed that you addressed shadowmaster.
Nevertheless, please allow me to give my 5 cent to the discussion as well.

I am sure shadowmaster is serious.
Although, I spend some work for writing a proper response to rmj, why do you ignore it?
You're regularly asserting things of the like, but assertions are not enough when coming across facts.
Nobody knows exactly (except you), how Wesnoth dev works, and instead explaining how it goes, you regularly invoke secrets and things you're not allowed to speak of.
The development of Wesnoth is mostly coordinated in the irc channel "wesnoth-dev" at the freenode server.
This channel is not restricted and open to everyone.
If you want to see how we work, just join this channel.

I have mentioned above that we give the developer rank to everyone submitting 3 medium sized contributions.
You already contributed the new map generator (it is my fault that it isn't included yet, still I promise to get it in before the next stable release).
This is a huge contribution, thus you can have the developer rank right now.

If you join the channel and accept the developer rank, I am happy to work with you (and I am sure, others are as well) on the integration of your generator in a team.
More of it, how would you qualify this ? I would say it's exactly "carefully guiding its development".
Well, some sort of coding style/guidelines is common among software projects, no matter if open or closed source.
If you define "carefully guiding its development" that all-embracing then yes, we are guiding the development.
Still I wonder if there is a project out there without them, thus especially mentioning them as an attribute of the Wesnoth project isn't necessary.
I went across this where Mordante discussed add-ons server enhancements some years ago (2008), and we're still discussing the points he suggested five years later . How would you qualify that ? Responsiveness ? Innovation opening ?
No doubt, you made a good point there.
You may have noticed that I am already campaigning for changes to the addon server.
If you join me and help out with ideas/campaigning/implementation the improvements are more likely to happen.

Also, shadowmaster already spent some work on improving the addon manager dialog, you can see the results in the current development version.
At the same time, you're regularly complaining about the lack of time and volunteers, but where and when did you asked for help ? Never and nowhere.
Then let me do it now, in the name of all developers:
Please join our ranks and contribute to the project, we are happy to welcome you.
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pyrophorus
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Re: Can Wesnoth be more than just a great game?

Post by pyrophorus »

fabi wrote: I noticed that you addressed shadowmaster.
Nevertheless, please allow me to give my 5 cent to the discussion as well.

I am sure shadowmaster is serious.
Although, I spend some work for writing a proper response to rmj, why do you ignore it?
I'm sorry if you read it that way. The reason is you're much more aware than him of the situation, so what you wrote seems to me reasonable and IMO needs no particular comment from me. I know you're doing a lot to keep the project moving ahead and take care of users opinions (and thanks for that).
fabi wrote:
You're regularly asserting things of the like, but assertions are not enough when coming across facts.
Nobody knows exactly (except you), how Wesnoth dev works, and instead explaining how it goes, you regularly invoke secrets and things you're not allowed to speak of.
The development of Wesnoth is mostly coordinated in the irc channel "wesnoth-dev" at the freenode server.
This channel is not restricted and open to everyone.
If you want to see how we work, just join this channel.
I know... I went there some time ago, and as Groggy_Dice said once, I mainly read connection/deconnection messages :lol2:
More seriously, you can't get a great many of people there, and in my particular situation, I can't connect when other people are talking: I'm at work or on the road. And even if it is open to anyone (that's true), it works like a very private channel. It's not like a forum post who will be read by many people.
You're used to work like that, no problem, but don't think people are aware of what's done here. They know not. I'm sure you don't particularly want opacity, but actually it is opaque. That's why you have rants like rmj's.

I'm perfectly conscious that solutions are not easy to find and to set up mainly because it's a volunteer project (and not so bad after all). My point is it's not a good thing to deny existing problems like ShM is used to (and you're not).
fabi wrote: I have mentioned above that we give the developer rank to everyone submitting 3 medium sized contributions.
You already contributed the new map generator (it is my fault that it isn't included yet, still I promise to get it in before the next stable release).
This is a huge contribution, thus you can have the developer rank right now.

If you join the channel and accept the developer rank, I am happy to work with you (and I am sure, others are as well) on the integration of your generator in a team.
But... but... It's absolutely impossible ! :lol2:
My code don't conform at all to Wesnoth programming guidelines, I didn't work under guidance of a senior programmer, and I can't join the IRC channel !

Seriously, thanks for saying it's a huge contribution and your invitation. I feel honoured. But can you see the communication problem ? If you get me as a developer, then what means the conditions written in the wiki ? Are they meaningless ? Obsolete ?
fabi wrote: Well, some sort of coding style/guidelines is common among software projects, no matter if open or closed source...
Of course there are. But I never went across such brutal assertions like in the link I quoted.

fabi wrote:
I went across this where Mordante discussed add-ons server enhancements some years ago (2008), and we're still discussing the points he suggested five years later . How would you qualify that ? Responsiveness ? Innovation opening ?
No doubt, you made a good point there.
You may have noticed that I am already campaigning for changes to the addon server.
If you join me and help out with ideas/campaigning/implementation the improvements are more likely to happen.
Yeah, I noticed, and tried to second your views as I can.
fabi wrote: Also, shadowmaster already spent some work on improving the addon manager dialog, you can see the results in the current development version.
At the same time, you're regularly complaining about the lack of time and volunteers, but where and when did you asked for help ? Never and nowhere.
Then let me do it now, in the name of all developers:
Please join our ranks and contribute to the project, we are happy to welcome you.
Yeah, I will help if I can. But the problem is much larger than my little person. Other are willing to help in their way (not as developers) and are not asked, particularly the guys who are working on reviews. These would need a rank and support, much more than I.

Friendly,
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Iris
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Re: Can Wesnoth be more than just a great game?

Post by Iris »

pyrophorus wrote:I'm sorry if you read it that way. The reason is you're much more aware than him of the situation [...]
I didn’t elaborate upon my statement because I felt it would derail the thread from the original topic (see the first post in the first page of this thread) even further considering I didn’t really expect anyone to continue discussing the tangent; but as some other developers could ascertain I’m by no means unaware of anything here, and you claiming otherwise feels more than a little rude considering how much time I and others referenced here have devoted to the Battle for Wesnoth Project.

There is such a thing as oversimplifying a ‘situation’ so everyone can get the wrong impression, especially a new prospective contributor like the original poster of this topic. If you feel this subject needs to be discussed further, I am open to continuing this tangent via PM or a new public topic in Users’ Forum instead of Writers’.
Author of the unofficial UtBS sequels Invasion from the Unknown and After the Storm.
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the_beagle
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Re: Can Wesnoth be more than just a great game?

Post by the_beagle »

All discussion aside, Fabi I will check in with your group, or the group, of which you speak after I finish my current project (race descriptions for a select few mainline groups). I apologize for my absence on this particular thread! Thank you for the input all.
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