Faerie World

For writers working on documentation, story prose, announcements, and all kinds of Wesnoth text.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

User avatar
Elfarion
Posts: 139
Joined: January 26th, 2013, 4:29 pm
Location: Göttingen, Germany

Faerie World

Post by Elfarion » February 18th, 2013, 6:24 pm

I tried to find a tread with similar content, but I failed. So if this was discussed before, please tell me.

I happen to find references to the Faerie World in canon (like unit description). In some UMC's (IftU, RotW, dunno which else) you can recruit faeries. Derived from what I read, the common opinion is that the Faerie World, or Faerie Realm is some sort of parallel dimension. It is also source of the "natural" magic races (like Elves or Woses). For me this implies some questions:

- In which way and under which circumstances does this Faerie World influence the "material" world? (More precisely: How would a "hybrid" (faerie-material) race come into existence?)
- If Elves and Woses have a connection to this world, does it mean, they live in both worlds simultaneously?
- If Faeries are the natural Inhabitants of this world, how do they come into the material world?
- More important: Why would they do so? What could possibly motivate them to bother about the problems, the conflicts and the trouble that goes on in an alternate dimension? (Except for helping their descendants, the Elves and the Woses, but this brings us back to the questions above.)
- How would members of races, that have (according to the canon) no connection to the Faerie World gain their magical abilities (human Magi, Orcish and Troll Shamans)? Here (I'm sorry, I can't find the exact page, must be on the first 5) it was suggested that human Magi use some alternate source of Magic, but this causes the necessity of another explanation and thus more work.
These are only a few questions that are implied by the concept of a Faerie World (or, in general by the concept of Magic). IMHO there should be a coherent lore of magic and magic races. I know this is difficult, because Magic is per definitionem something mysterious and enigmatic, but I would be happy about some brainstorming on this issue.

Edit: Maybe this could result in a collection of myths and tales of the various races from the Great Continent?
"Each of mankind's steps towards tomorrow is a breaking of today's laws."
- Sergej Lukianenko

User avatar
Dugi
Posts: 4920
Joined: July 22nd, 2010, 10:29 am
Location: Carpathian Mountains
Contact:

Re: Faerie World

Post by Dugi » February 18th, 2013, 7:45 pm

This reply is not based on information from campaigns, I am just writing several ideas that should be in accordance with mainline elvish campaigns and IftU.

There are several accessible worlds, like the Faerie world, Inferno, some elemental planes (elementals come from there), world of the dead,... Each of them has different laws of nature, its own magic, its own inhabitants. In the faerie world, the air is much heavier compared to water in bodies, so beings can fly with ease (scientifically, Boltzmann's constant is significantly different, also the fine structure constant). In Inferno, mass is much more dense and creatures of the same size are stronger and tougher (scientifically, Planck's constant is higher). Elemental planes are places with different nature, and the file there developed differently - anorganic life for earth elementals, some kind of medusa-like reticuli in the case of water elementals, plasma and magnetic fields in the case of fire elementals. The plane Rythé that Shadowmaster mentioned in IftU is another planet in the same world as Wesnoth is, they are just aliens that live far far away.

If these creatures come to another world, the passage through the barrier between the world refracts its very nature, that in effect translates the differences between the worlds into a series of enchantments. This makes fairies float, demons super tough, elementals capable of using their elemental nature etc. Therefore, it adds some unique magic into their flesh, that does not have much in common with usual DNA codes. When these otherwordly creatures interbreed with common races, their offsprings share a part of their DNA and also a part of the enchantments. This makes elves a bit fairy-like (if they don't neglect this magic power within them, if they neglect it, it will fade away in their bodies, this makes the difference between archers/fighters and shamans). It also makes the trolls a bit earth-like (their skin is like stone, if they develop their elemental part they can use interesting fire magic as Troll Shamans).

Beings usually don't have reasons to visit other worlds, but they may do so if they have a reason to and they possess the knowledge required for it. They may try to help their cousins (like fairies in IftU), to destroy and conquer (demons), just to take over uninhabitable territories like lava or deep caves (elementals), or to help their descendants (spirits).

Each world has its own magic, fairy magic is mostly related to plants, demonic magic is mostly related to destruction and evil (according to Shadowmaster, it was not always so), elemental magic is related to the element they belong to (earth elementals can control rocks, fire elementals can breathe fire,...), necromantic magic is related to sucking life energy and passages between the world of the dead and the world where the dead formerly lived in,...

This makes trolls' special powers tied to rocks and lava, elvish powers tied to plants (faerie fire is described as bringing parts of the faerie world to cause destructive chaotic power surges, so this is tied to the passage between worlds, but ensnare and thorns are related to plants), liches' powers are related to draining and dragging things from the world of the dead,...

Other creatures were created with magic from mundane creatures by unknown beings deep in the past, such as mermen (hybrids between fishes and humans), orcs (hybrids between apes and humans) or nagas (hybrids between serpents and humans), so they also possess some residual magic (orcs have strength, mermen have some water-related powers) that gives them some special powers and makes them vulnerable to arcane, or just not resistant to it. Gryphons are probably magical hybrids between horses (or some other four-legged animal, their feet look kinda feline) and eagles (or some other predator birds).

Humans are perfectly mundane creatures in this world, that does not limit their magical powers into a single direction like otherworldly hybrids, and makes them resistant to arcane. Their magic is related to this world, so their magic is the most powerful here, but it is related to theories and knowledge, unlike elvish magic, that is related to their own nature and controlled mostly with instincts. The magic of this world contains the forces of anorganic nature (lightnings, fireballs, snowstorms) and the forces of life (healing, lightbeam, as opposed the the forces of the dead that contains the dark magic). Silver Magi are a mystery.

Of course, beings can use different kinds of magic that they are tied to. Necromancers aren't undead themselves, but they study magic of the dead to learn to control it and become immortal (to a certain extent). Orcish and mermen shamans/magi can use the usual magic, but it interferes with their residual magic that keeps them hybrid, that makes them worse at it than humans. Elves can use the conventional magic, but it is extremely rare, because it is much easier for them to use their residual faerie magic; but death magic doesn't belong to them just like it doesn't belong to humans (but unlike them, humans are not tied to the faerie magic, so they are still better at necromancy), and in addition it allows them do do something their own magic cannot even imitate, so elvish necromancers are more likely to appear than elvish red magi.

I hope my reply satisfied your thirst for wesnoth knowledge.

User avatar
Elfarion
Posts: 139
Joined: January 26th, 2013, 4:29 pm
Location: Göttingen, Germany

Re: Faerie World

Post by Elfarion » February 18th, 2013, 7:53 pm

This fits great into my picture of a fantasy universe, thanks a lot! I still think, it's necessary to put up collection of myths and/or a compendium of magic knowledge, since the little information is scattered all over in-game text.
"Each of mankind's steps towards tomorrow is a breaking of today's laws."
- Sergej Lukianenko

User avatar
shadowm
Site Administrator
Posts: 6542
Joined: November 14th, 2006, 5:54 pm
Location: Chile
Contact:

Re: Faerie World

Post by shadowm » February 18th, 2013, 9:00 pm

Dugi wrote:This reply is not based on information from campaigns, I am just writing several ideas that should be in accordance with mainline elvish campaigns and IftU.

[...] In Inferno, mass is much more dense and creatures of the same size are stronger and tougher (scientifically, Planck's constant is higher). [...]
What.

When I first wrote IftU, I never expected anyone to utilize real-world physics for describing Inferno/Urvatha (according to their headcanon concept, anyway).

I am not even sure why it needs to be explained like that considering that we have creatures as large as Fire Dragons and Yetis in mainline Irdya. Uh, also undead. And magic. And high-level elves with decorative wings who are somehow able to use some kind of personal anti-gravity force or something to levitate.
Author of the unofficial UtBS sequels Invasion from the Unknown and After the Storm.

User avatar
Dugi
Posts: 4920
Joined: July 22nd, 2010, 10:29 am
Location: Carpathian Mountains
Contact:

Re: Faerie World

Post by Dugi » February 18th, 2013, 9:29 pm

With several ideas in accordance with mainline campaigns, I just meant that contains a plenty of stuff I made up myself, but it does not clash with mainline.

I have used physics to describe Inferno because it quite logically explained why demons were tougher and stronger compared to humans. I know magic is something totally unreal, but in logic and mathematics, it can exist without problems. My description has logically explained how can the high-level elves float, and also gave clues to explain the existence of undead. Yetis can be just huge apes and something about dragons might surely be figured out.

If you want to explain magic logically, we might assume that the whole world of Irdya and also the other accessible worlds are just a virtual reality, created for fantasy game die-hard fans in some indeterminate point in the future (the heroes are humans, plebs are just AIs that are taking the places of unimportant people in that world; their memories are somewhat altered to improve the adventure).

User avatar
shadowm
Site Administrator
Posts: 6542
Joined: November 14th, 2006, 5:54 pm
Location: Chile
Contact:

Re: Faerie World

Post by shadowm » February 18th, 2013, 9:42 pm

Dugi wrote:I have used physics to describe Inferno because it quite logically explained why demons were tougher and stronger compared to humans.
They are like that due to evolution, natural selection, combat training, etc.

*shrugs*
Author of the unofficial UtBS sequels Invasion from the Unknown and After the Storm.

User avatar
Dracoc00
Posts: 16
Joined: February 18th, 2013, 9:47 pm

Re: Faerie World

Post by Dracoc00 » February 18th, 2013, 10:07 pm

hi this is my first time in the forum, first say that my English is not good, so do not eat me.

I have always been struck by the faerie world, I used to think it was another plane of reality, as an ethereal world, but now I'm not sure, as they have forgotten a race, I acurdo name was the least connected to the faerie world, what intrigues me is that their magic is different from the elves,
Why this difference if both races are connected to the faerie world?
And what is the difference between a druid and a sorceress and subsequent forms Fairy
I am... The divine Wind.

User avatar
Elfarion
Posts: 139
Joined: January 26th, 2013, 4:29 pm
Location: Göttingen, Germany

Re: Faerie World

Post by Elfarion » February 18th, 2013, 11:40 pm

@Dracoc00: The difference between a the druid and the sorceress line is just the use of the Faerie Magic. The first focus on healing, the latter on offensive magic.
as they have forgotten a race, I acurdo name was the least connected to the faerie world
Sorry, what race do you mean? And what is 'acurdo'?

@Dugi&Shadowmaster: I'm somewhat conservative about fantasy :wink: When it comes to me, I don't like using terms of science to describe fantasy stuff. Or, if there's no other way, use as less as possible. I don't think, that magic needs to explained by logic, or that we need a system of principles for magic, like the principles of physics. IMO it would be enough to say, that magic is a sort of "science" i. e. it follows certain principles, but they exceptions from these principles can be made willingly or occure (spontaneous eruptions of magic power that cause anomalies).
"Each of mankind's steps towards tomorrow is a breaking of today's laws."
- Sergej Lukianenko

User avatar
Dracoc00
Posts: 16
Joined: February 18th, 2013, 9:47 pm

Re: Faerie World

Post by Dracoc00 » February 19th, 2013, 1:09 am

Sorry, I meant I do not remember, is that my first language is Spanish, in terms of race, do not remember the name, is this race that lives in the water, I think they were mermaids, What I mean is that this breed is less connected to the elves faerie world, but his magic manifests differently, as the magic of the elves have to do with plants, fairy world to bring energy and if the syphilids influence on wildlife, the magic of this race has to related to water.
I am... The divine Wind.

User avatar
Flameslash
Posts: 633
Joined: December 21st, 2008, 12:29 pm

Re: Faerie World

Post by Flameslash » February 19th, 2013, 1:40 am

You're thinking about Merfolk. I disagree about magic being based around the environment, I think it's more about manipulating it and becoming proficient in 'home' terrain, which is why merfolk can't use plant magic and elves can't use eater magic. But that's just my opinion.

User avatar
Dracoc00
Posts: 16
Joined: February 18th, 2013, 9:47 pm

Re: Faerie World

Post by Dracoc00 » February 19th, 2013, 2:00 am

I thought so too, but the magic of the merfolk and the elves come from the same source, why is different if they come from the same source, the Faerie world
And why Woses not able to bring energy faerie world, if they are closer to where the elves?

Post 2: And another question, why the faerie world is more powerful than the corporeal, in the description of the sorceress elf faerie says the world is more powerful than the corporeal and simply bring some of the world this has consequences Why is the world fae another plane of reality where spirits live or is it just another planet?
Last edited by 8680 on February 19th, 2013, 6:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Merged double post.
I am... The divine Wind.

User avatar
Flameslash
Posts: 633
Joined: December 21st, 2008, 12:29 pm

Re: Faerie World

Post by Flameslash » February 19th, 2013, 2:25 am

The magic isn't different in my mind, it's one system being used for a different purpose. If an elf was raised by mermen and somehow breathed underwater (merfolk magic?), they would probably be able to use merfolk magic, and vice versa. And the faerie world is another plane of reality, because the laws of physics there are different, so it can't just be another planet in the same universe. As for why woses don't use magic - maybe they just don't want to, or use it all to be woses instead of trees?

Also, as a moderator will probably point out, you should edit posts rather than double post.

User avatar
Dracoc00
Posts: 16
Joined: February 18th, 2013, 9:47 pm

Re: Faerie World

Post by Dracoc00 » February 19th, 2013, 3:12 am

Thanks for the advice, I had not thought of before, rookie mistake.

I agree with you that it is no different, same source, different use, now the question is about the origin of the races that are related to the fairies, for example elves are said to be the oldest race on the continent exepcion of trolls, as this breed may have originated, because if we think might be descendants of fairies with some changes, but then we have make some fairy elves themselves, the elves at first sight seem to be the closest to the fairies, but then there are Woses who claims to be closest to the faerie world, if all races are descended from fairies happened for Woses and mermen were to be what they are today.
And the other question what push the fairies to leave his plane of powerful magical energies for a mundane world
I am... The divine Wind.

User avatar
Flameslash
Posts: 633
Joined: December 21st, 2008, 12:29 pm

Re: Faerie World

Post by Flameslash » February 19th, 2013, 3:16 am

Maybe the faeries were forced to flee for a time and take refuge on Irdya while a war/natural disaster ravaged the faerie world? Maybe they wanted to experience something new? Maybe they were exiled from the faerie world?

User avatar
Dracoc00
Posts: 16
Joined: February 18th, 2013, 9:47 pm

Re: Faerie World

Post by Dracoc00 » February 19th, 2013, 3:29 am

Maybe, could be, should have arrived at an early period of existence, because we have the elves that are one of the oldest races on the continent, or perhaps the Woses, elves and merfolk only breeds are born with an affinity for the Faerie world, and not have much to do with the fairy creatures besides being tied to the same world, but then we have the syphilids elves and when a siren reaches the pinnacle of its power is confused with these water spirits whose name escapes me.

And the world will also have to do with fairy magic humans, because we see fairies using fire magic, perhaps the fairy world, is a plane of that comes all the magic.
I am... The divine Wind.

Post Reply