race and unit-name questions

[SkyOne]

Hi,
I have a couple of questions about race-names (as a none native English speaker). I will appreciate if anyone responds.

In one of own campaigns, there are two kinds of horses, Wild Horse and Royal Pony. Since the beginning, I had put them as "race=monster". Recently, I have changed it to "race=ungulate" because I thought they should not be in the same race as Yetis. My question 1 is that: - Is the name, ungulate, acceptable? It is probably a biological word for scientists. "race=horse" is another option, but ungulate includes horse, cattle, rhinoceros, camel, hippopotamus, pig, sheep, deer, etc. So it can be useful for anyone who uses those kinds of animals in his/her UMC if it is acceptable for him/her. Could anyone tell me what he/she thinks?
wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ungulate

Another question (question 2):
I am working on creating units that are Shark, Dolphin, and Tuna-Fish to install them into another own. I can put them as "race=fish", but dolphins are biologically not fishes. So I plan to use "race=halibios" currently, however, the word of halibios is not really a word. I mean there is not halibios in my any dictionaries. I just found it by using the Google research. So could anyone tell me it is acceptable as a race-name to people who speak English as the first language? Maybe, I should replace them to something else?

P.S. all of those units don't talk, just the same as ones in our real world, by the way.


Thanks

edited the topic title from "race-name questions" to "race and unit-name questions"

[Speedbrain]

I'm not sure it matters because these terms are fairly obscure for most people. English is my first language and I am not sure I have heard these terms before.

That being said, Ungulate sounds great. Halibios also sounds great, although it has a Latin feel.
Alternatively, for the sea animals you could use Nekton. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nekton
Basically anything that can swim on its own.

Up to you, though.

[doofus-01]

If you wanted to keep it simple and general, you could just call them "hoofed beast" and "sea creature". Or something like that. I don't think it would sound too childish.

[SkyOne]

I'm not sure it matters because these terms are fairly obscure for most people. English is my first language and I am not sure I have heard these terms before.

That being said, Ungulate sounds great. Halibios also sounds great, although it has a Latin feel.
Alternatively, for the sea animals you could use Nekton. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nekton
Basically anything that can swim on its own.

Necton seems good because I have another set of units that look like crabs, but they are in a different race. I mean that Halibios includes crabs, but Necton doesn't.
Also, the word of Necton is obviously much popular than the word of Halibios, and sounds catchy (I think). Thank you so much.

If you wanted to keep it simple and general, you could just call them "hoofed beast" and "sea creature". Or something like that. I don't think it would sound too childish.

Thank you so much, doofus-01.
Yes, they stay in the pretty much normal, and level=0 units only in my plan. There won't be like Hoofed Fighter or Hoofed Archer. So both "hoofed beast" and "sea creature" really make sense to me, too. But it seems all of race-names in BfW are one word, such as human, elf, dwarf..., so does just "hoof" (means hoofed family) make sense to you? If so, I will move on with it.


As you probably know, I have already used "race=carapace" for crab-like and turtle-like monsters. They are battling creatures to help either Drakes and Nagas in each of my owns. Their unit names will be my another question.

For example, in the race of elves, there are Elvish Fighter, Elvish Archer... The form of "elvish" is adjective. In drakes, the word of "drake" seems both adjective and noun, like Drake Fighter and Fire Drake. But it seems the word of carapace is noun only. So that I have used their unit-names as Protective Carapace, Foraging Carapace, Hunting Carapace etc... My question is that: - is it grammatically fine to change them to Carapace Protector, Carapace Forager, Carapace Hunter...? I may have to put "-" (dash) in between the two words in the case? That is not a huge problem, but it looks a bit weird order on the recruitment list:

Spoiler:

recruitment-list.png (92.79 KiB) Viewed 4852 times

Thanks

[Telchin]

But it seems all of race-names in BfW are one word, such as human, elf, dwarf..., so does just "hoof" (means hoofed family) make sense to you? If so, I will move on with it.

Well, in English they might be one-word, but for example in Czech the translations for Mermen and Woses are two words each (roughly "Sea People" and "Tree People" respectively), so I don't think that a race having two word name would be weird. That said, I don't think that "hoof" makes sense as a "race" (it's a body part).

Necton seems good because I have another set of units that look like crabs, but they are in a different race. I mean that Halibios includes crabs, but Necton doesn't.

It depends what do you want these races to do. Units from the same race usually get names and/or traits selected from the same pool. This is , for example, the reason why the wolfriders count as wolves and not as goblins (as the infantry goblins get different traits for balance reasons). So I don't think that there is anything wrong with mundane animals being counted as "monsters" (my capaign uses enemies based on real world fish and I left them as Monsters) or with a "race" consisting only of few units (this is the case with Bats in mainline). It may also depend what other units are in your UMC. If the only "ungulates" there are horses", it would probably make more sense to call them "horses" than "ungulates".

For example, in the race of elves, there are Elvish Fighter, Elvish Archer... The form of "elvish" is adjective. In drakes, the word of "drake" seems both adjective and noun, like Drake Fighter and Fire Drake. But it seems the word of carapace is noun only. So that I have used their unit-names as Protective Carapace, Foraging Carapace, Hunting Carapace etc... My question is that: - is it grammatically fine to change them to Carapace Protector, Carapace Forager, Carapace Hunter...? I may have to put "-" (dash) in between the two words in the case? That is not a huge problem, but it looks a bit weird order on the recruitment list

Assuming that Carapace is the name of their species/race/nation I think Carapace Fighter etc. would be OK. Just in mainline Wesnoth Drakes, Saurians, Nagas, Goblins, Trolls, Mermen and Gryphons all follow this naming style. English seems to be peculiar in that most nouns can also be used as adjectives (and sometimes even verbs).

[doofus-01]

Yes, they stay in the pretty much normal, and level=0 units only in my plan. There won't be like Hoofed Fighter or Hoofed Archer.:) So both "hoofed beast" and "sea creature" really make sense to me, too. But it seems all of race-names in BfW are one word, such as human, elf, dwarf..., so does just "hoof" (means hoofed family) make sense to you? If so, I will move on with it.

You don't need to include the race in the unit name, right? It could be a "Deathcow of Doom" with race "Hoofed Beast", just like "Spearman" with race "Humans". Some mainline units have the race-name in the unit-name, but mainline ain't perfect ("Mermaid Priestess" really could just be "Priestess", for example), so don't let that govern you.

That said, I don't think that "hoof" makes sense as a "race" (it's a body part).

"Ungulate" = hoofed animal

[SkyOne]

Well, in English they might be one-word, but for example in Czech the translations for Mermen and Woses are two words each (roughly "Sea People" and "Tree People" respectively), so I don't think that a race having two word name would be weird.

Thanks.
I decided its race-name as "Sea Creature", then its movement_type, team_name, and calling name in the dialogue will be "nekton". I think it is the best selection so far.

It depends what do you want these races to do. Units from the same race usually get names and/or traits selected from the same pool. This is , for example, the reason why the wolfriders count as wolves and not as goblins (as the infantry goblins get different traits for balance reasons). So I don't think that there is anything wrong with mundane animals being counted as "monsters" (my capaign uses enemies based on real world fish and I left them as Monsters) or with a "race" consisting only of few units (this is the case with Bats in mainline).

Thank you.
But are you entirely happy about keeping your fishes in "race=monster"? To me, the race is a group of monster units and units of exceptions that don't belong to any others, such as the "Fog Clearer". (I think it should be in mechanical, though...) So the "race=monster" is a race that I should avoid if the custom unit(s) has other possibilities to me.

If you are not really, we may be able to share the race-name and its description although ones I am working on are just pretty much real creatures, that are sharks, dolphins, and marlins that will be replaced tuna-fishes if I can succeed to draw it. ( a marlin is kind of hard to draw as a sprite...)

It may also depend what other units are in your UMC. If the only "ungulates" there are horses", it would probably make more sense to call them "horses" than "ungulates".

Sure. If I think about just my campaign, "race=horse" is absolutely fine. I mean that it is probably the most suitable race-name, of course. But I am thinking to develop a new race for UMC of BfW through my campaigns, especially on FoaP, because it seems some creators use ungulate animals in their UMC, and the most of the creators probably keep them in monsters (although doofus-01 puts his horses in his own race, Khthon ).

Assuming that Carapace is the name of their species/race/nation I think Carapace Fighter etc. would be OK. Just in mainline Wesnoth Drakes, Saurians, Nagas, Goblins, Trolls, Mermen and Gryphons all follow this naming style. English seems to be peculiar in that most nouns can also be used as adjectives (and sometimes even verbs).

Thank you. It is helpful.
I really appreciate your responses, anyway.

You don't need to include the race in the unit name, right? It could be a "Deathcow of Doom" with race "Hoofed Beast", just like "Spearman" with race "Humans". Some mainline units have the race-name in the unit-name, but mainline ain't perfect ("Mermaid Priestess" really could just be "Priestess", for example), so don't let that govern you.

That is right. Actually, I have been curious why only human units don't have their race-names on their units (probably because we are all humans). It seems you solved my issue with this short comment. It definitely encourages me to move on. Thank you.
I may use Deathcow of Doom in the future if I can build his story. It's fun. Maybe, a Holycow rescues him from the dark-side or something...

[Telchin]

But are you entirely happy about keeping your fishes in "race=monster"? To me, the race is a group of monster units and units of exceptions that don't belong to any others, such as the "Fog Clearer".

Well, this has more to do with my campaign being about cuttlefish. The mainline Cuttlefish and Tentacle of the Deep are counted as "monsters", so I made all the custom cuttlefish and tentacle units monster too, for consistency (they're mostly just shameful recolors of mainline sprites anyway). And once all your player's characters are "monsters", then monster seems less like an exeption and more like a rule So yes, it might make more sense for the fish to not be monsters, but I didn't need them to have random traits or names and taxonomic precision was a low priority compared to other aspects of the campaign (bugs, balance, story, etc.).

That is right. Actually, I have been curious why only human units don't have their race-names on their units (probably because we are all humans).

Yeah, this is most likely the case. If you say "pikeman" most people will imagine a human pikeman, because there are no non-human pikemen in real life (or are there? ), so it's units of other species that need clarification. Another sign of this game being made by humans is that there are multiple factions in the default era with human units, but most other races are limited to one faction. On the other hand, there are some other "races" that don't mention their race in their unit names: Undead, Monsters and Mechanical are named after what kind of undead (Skeleton, Ghost, etc.)/species of monster (Cuttlefish, Mudcrawler, etc.)/type of machine (e.g. Pirate Galleon). Wolf Riders are an interesting case as the rider is a goblin, but the unit count as a wolf for gameplay reasons. (Wolfriders get same traits as other units, but the infantry goblins get negative traits to balance their cheapness.)

[battlestar]

Suggestion in reference to your Q2: race=aquatic, aquatica

More ideas from http://thesaurus.com/browse/marine

[SkyOne]

So yes, it might make more sense for the fish to not be monsters, but I didn't need them to have random traits or names and taxonomic precision was a low priority compared to other aspects of the campaign (bugs, balance, story, etc.).

Sure, I understand it as well.
But the traits and names are really up to us when we add own races. I mean we can easily customize them to our preferences. We can even install custom names for our races. I think it is a fun part for creators IMO.

Suggestion in reference to your Q2: race=aquatic, aquatica

More ideas from http://thesaurus.com/browse/marine

The aquatic is cool. Thank you!
Also, I appreciate the link. I think it may also help Telchin in the future.

[TheCripple]

I'd reccomend simplifying these. The first sounds like it focuses on riding animals, and as such "Steeds" could work as a general race name. It's a category, sure, but no more so than monsters, and it gives you a sensible location to insert flying or swimming mounts as well. "Carapace" doesn't really work well as a category - it's roughly analogous to using "ribcage" or "spine" for the current races, which just doesn't work (though "Vertebrate" could, though it is excessively broad). As for the fish and dolphins: You could just have a large "fish" category with a small category for "whales", given that tiny categories already exist for bats and griffons this should be fine.