Elvish Titles

[TheScribe]

I'm currently writing some dialouge for a campaign, and I have a couple questions.

1. How would a lower-level Elf refer to an Elvish Captain or an Elvish Marshal? ("Sir" and "Captain" come to mind, though that doesn't really sound elvish to me)

2. How would a Human refer to an Elvish Captain or Elvish Marshal?

I know those questions probably have multiple answers depending on the context. If you need more information to answer my questions please feel free to ask.

Thanks.

[Lord-Knightmare]

My answers:

1. Elves refer to their superior as 'commander' or 'captain' (or 'lord' if the captain or marshal is of royalty).
2. Humans might refer to an elf captain as 'sir elf' (or 'captain' if the elf is leading them).

[ancestral]

1. It wouldn’t surprise me if, after many thousands of years, Elves would have plenty of titles given to their superiors. There could be different types of captains, such as “Battle Warden,” “Fieldmaster,” “Arch Legate” or “Keeper of the Grove.” Additionally, there still may be more generic pronouns available, such as “my liege.”
   
   (Orcs, meanwhile, don’t have many titles. Instead, they just call their superiors by what they do. Perhaps something akin to “fearless one”, “he who is most wise” or “he who has seen many battles.” Perhaps some tribes are a little less refined; “he who kills many” or “he who carries the mighty axe.”)
2. I agree with Lord-Knightmare. Sir Elf or Captain seems reasonable.

[Lanval]

Fieldmaster sounds fitting, as does Commander. Liege is technically for rulers of an independant nation, but Sire and general addresses like that would fit.

I think it all comes down to context, the Elves might called their leaders "Captain"s officially, but I can understand how someone would have difficulty seeing them giving a military style salute and greeting, refering to their commander as "Captain Legolas" kind of does break the Elvish feel, but saying "...My Captain" doesn't or at least not nearly as much. I'd recommend avoiding the former style of address all together and where a long formal address is necessary, give a specific title or nickname the previous poster stated.

Humans it would likely depend upon context, chronicallers and Humans talking to Humans would probably apply their ranks to the Elvish forces. Humans at war with them would probably just refer to a captain as "Elf" or his name without titles. Humans trying to be respectful might go for the name and then the title, "Legolas, captain of the Grey Forests" before reverting to first name. Humans under their command would probably just emulate whatever the elves called their command.

Orcs I don't imagine having any kind of formal address since their concept of legitimate and well divided rule seems dodgy at best. Cases of this would probably lean more on using specific titles where it applies "Clan Father" or something.

[nuorc]

2. Humans might refer to an elf captain as 'sir elf' (or 'captain' if the elf is leading them).

"Sir Elf" sounds funny to me. I'd also go for "Lord" or "Lord Name" for nobles (no "Ladies" or "Dames"?). I'd use "captain" only if the unit actually is a captain, else maybe "(my) Commander" or "Title (, Sir,)".

ofc my troops learn proper manners and thus always address me "Sir, Title, Sir, ..."

[TheScribe]

For what I'm doing, I think Commander or just Sir fits best for the first case. Though I do agree with Ancestral, it's not an Elvish campaign, so I'm gonna stick to the generic terms.

As for Humans, I'm probably gonna use Captain or Commander, depending on which unit it is. Humans in general refer to somebody by their rank, regardless of the rank of the Human. (based on my observations) BTW, the Humans are allied with the dwarves in this instance.

And Sir-Elf for the Dwarves, as I previously mentioned.

Thanks to all of you.

EDIT: nuorc posted as I was typing (well, I got distracted and left this on...) so below I'll respond to him.

"Sir Elf" sounds funny to me.

It does seem a little weird, though it does sound like something a Dwarf would say to me. (I heard a Dwarf say it in a movie once, and it sounded right. LOTR if I remember correctly)

I'd use "captain" only if the unit actually is a captain

He is. (I'll probably have a variable so it switches to commander if the unit levels to a Marshal)

[nuorc]

Oh yes, for a dwarf it sounds good!

[rmj]

Elves live long lives and thus know each other fairly well. Also they usually are not at war. So I think using their name without any title would be common. An exception would be for a hereditary Lord.

[TheScribe]

Elves live long lives and thus know each other fairly well. Also they usually are not at war. So I think using their name without any title would be common. An exception would be for a hereditary Lord.

Well, the elf talking to the Captain would be less than a century old, so that wouldn't really take effect. Though I will keep that in mind for the other Elves. Thanks.

[Lanval]

A century old it should be kept in mind is technically about middle aged for Elves, though it's interesting to think about the concept of age when Elves themselves don't really show age. Presumably, their immune system just gets weaker over time and while it doesn't show, they do become more susceptable to disease? It's just an odd question since we never quite see an "Old Elf"; Tolkien has none since his Elves never die, while D&D has longlived but mortal elves that do eventually die. Maybe Aging happens in a fashion similar to early growth; just as their bodies get a cue to stop growing, they might have a sudden signal around the end to age rapidly? Though that feels odd.

It brings to mind an interesting image of viking Culture where the old would try to die in battle; Elves don't show signs of aging until around the end of their lives if at all. It makes sense then that most of the Elvish military would infact be elder elves with less time left but bodies equally able [and likely better trained] than younger elves. Thus, the Elvish army would be mostly composed of old relics looking for an honourable way to go out.

But bringing this back to the topic, I feel like youth if anything would be a cause to show less respect rather than more. So, what I'd recommend is having them call him by his first name until he does something awesome and heroic. At this point then, pull a page from Tolkien's book and have them give him a nickname, that is explained in story and marks a sign of respect personally. It matches the feel of an Elven society a bit more that way.

[8680]

Maybe Aging happens in a fashion similar to early growth; just as their bodies get a cue to stop growing, they might have a sudden signal around the end to age rapidly? Though that feels odd.

While some elves possessing a high magical aptitude have been known to live an additional full century, most elves begin to grow physically frail at some point between 250 and 300 years of age and pass away rapidly (generally within a year or two) thereafter.

No, I’m not targeting you personally....

[TheScribe]

The "less than a century old" comment was a reference to LoW. And in order not to be a drudge of society, they respect their elders. Youth might cause a lack of respect in a human, but not in an elf, as I see it.

It brings to mind an interesting image of viking Culture where the old would try to die in battle; Elves don't show signs of aging until around the end of their lives if at all. It makes sense then that most of the Elvish military would infact be elder elves with less time left but bodies equally able [and likely better trained] than younger elves. Thus, the Elvish army would be mostly composed of old relics looking for an honourable way to go out.

While this holds true with Drakes, this has nothing to do with Elven society, IIRC.

Even if it did, it still would be a younger elf, as it would be an Elvish Fighter or an Elvish Archer speaking. As you said, the elder elves would have higher training.

[Lanval]

8680

Spoiler:

Yeah, sounds right. I was working off the wiki which claims: "Few differences between humans and elves are more pronounced than the latter’s unusually long life - most, unless claimed by illness, accident or war, live a full two centuries"

I should check the game more often and obviously it takes precedence over the wiki but I play the French version and sometimes the languages don't match up.

The Scribe

Spoiler:

I meant that if led by a younger Elf, the other elves probably would not feel more inclined to use titles on a captain younger than them with their elders. I picture age as being something pretty important to the Elves, though less so than with the Dwarves so I feel older Elves would be even less inclined to refer to younger elves by titles.

To the Elven society thing; I was proposing it as something logical rather than stating what's in the game. Drakes' explicitly have the growing old better make it to Valhalla thing, but it seems logical that if Elves have approximately 180-230 years where age is not an issue, then why would they send 20 year olds with 280 years of life ahead of them as opposed to to 245 year olds who have relatively few signs of aging, are just as agile and in all their time have only gained more experience and wisdom while only having maybe 60 years to look forward to.

[nuorc]

I have seen "Elvish Civilians" and "Aged Elve" (some Lord) in-game (lvl 0/weakened lvl3).

Addressing a "Captain" as "Captain" seems right.

[Sapient]

It's just an odd question since we never quite see an "Old Elf"