SoF: Dialog & storyline revision.

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Pewskeepski
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Re: SoF: Dialog & storyline revision.

Post by Pewskeepski »

LordBob wrote:@ taptap: absolutely. To be honest, it's the one thing still bothering me. We're pretty much done on every other aspect, but saving the Sceptre while still having everyone else die is one mean task.
I always thought the scepter was lava-proof, being appropriately named the Scepter of Fire. However I'm not sure how believable something like that could be made.
LordBob wrote:@pewskeepski: I'm not so much worried by the long stay in the caves: ten years to craft the finest artifact ever isn't too much. The way I understand wesnothian dwarves, they're self-sufficient once entrenched in their caves. Sure, meat and fruits are scarce and one had better not be subject to fungus intolerance...But if they survive the first two years, the next ten aren't going to be a problem. Besides, dwarves are used to living indoors.
I was thinking more of how it feels weird to me that it would take them years to cut a ruby. I know because of it's magical properties they have to be careful and it will take a while, but it just seems like if they did a little cutting every day it would take so long.
LordBob wrote:However, you're right that this such a long siege will feel wrong if we let the player think that both sides remained idle. Plus, we can't have the dwarves, having remained trapped for nearly ten years, suddenly pull off something they could have done all along.
My proposition: we could have the narrator (or a story dialog between scenarios) mention some of the hardships and attempts that may or may not take place.
- the aforementionned dwarven rescue attempt
- the elves bring in Wose allies to breach the doors, but fail / are repelled
- the dwarves attempt to dig tunnels beyond the enemy lines for supplies / an escape route
- or we simply tell how the siege was epic, but this is a different story.
Ok, I'll try to incorporate some of these into the story and see how it goes.
LordBob wrote:Either way, the elves will eventually settle, let off their guard and leave only minimum troops in a series of outpost; which would later allow the dwarves to escape, whereas they couldn't when the entire army was stationned in the hills.
Yeah, and I think after a while they would decide to wait outside and expect the dwarves to come out so they can attack them.

The review: I fixed the typos and just used the line you wrote for Thursagan :)
Wesbane wrote:
Typos in first post:
Thanks.
Wesbane wrote:First of all: as far as only story revision is concerned original tactical concept should be preserved. That is Alanin is not involved in combat in underground scenarios
Pewskeepski wrote:This dialog makes Alanin stay with you for the scenario (not sure if this is a balance issue?) because I never thought it believable that he (a human on horseback in a cave) would be able to go and warn the council.
This was never the case. Original dialogue from cutscene In the Dwarven City make this clear:
In fact sending Alanin away to warn dwarven council is quite reasonable decision.
  • 1. He is important person since he represents his king. Also Alanin death would give Durnstorn right to actually banish Rugnur for his incompetence. As such he need to be protected and there is no better way to protect someone than sending him to safe location. There is no safer location then dwarven city.
    2. It is better to have trusted kinsmen, then some human warrior who doesn't know anything about fight and especially fight in underground.
    3. Rugnur at beginning of scenario even do not believe that he can win. So letting Alanin stay has no sense.
    4. Sending him away is a win, win deal. If he will warn council its fantastic. If not well at least he will be safe.
..
The only thing that needed to be changed to avoid misinterpretation is to add line for Rugnur commenting on Alanin departure. This must occur before Balgur shows up...
It could be something like this:
Anyway even in revised version Alanin is late again what makes him and Rugnur look somewhat special...
But how is Alanin even suppose to know which tunnels to go down and how to get to the council? That would probably be why he never sends message in the original version. You make good points but since nobody else has commented on this subject, I'd like to know what others think about this to figure out the best option.
Wesbane wrote:Do characters in game need say only things worth crafting in stone? I doubt.
No but its more natural for him to simply walk into the cave without saying anything.
Wesbane wrote:Just use dropbox if this is a trouble.
Thanks, I'll try that sometime, but right now I'm just to tired...

New Scenario 6 5 (both of 'em ;)) are attached below.
Attachments
Hills of the Shorbear Clan.txt
Hills of the Shorbear Clan - v0.1
(7.05 KiB) Downloaded 257 times
The Jeweler.txt
The Jeweler - v0.3
(3.88 KiB) Downloaded 261 times
Last edited by Pewskeepski on May 23rd, 2012, 12:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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johndh
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Re: SoF: Dialog & storyline revision.

Post by johndh »

Pewskeepski wrote: I always thought the scepter was lava-proof, being appropriately named the Scepter of Fire. However I'm not sure how believable something like that could be made.
My concern would not be that it would melt or be destroyed, but rather that it would be encased in tons of igneous rock when the lava cooled. Maybe the lava flow never reached where the scepter was, and the characters still died due to suffocation and/or massive troll overdose rather than burning to death? Even if the trolls found the scepter, they'd probably leave it alone because it held no interest to them, or their shamans could sense the madness within it and decided not to mess with it.
It's spelled "definitely", not "definately". "Defiantly" is a different word entirely.
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Sapient
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Re: SoF: Dialog & storyline revision.

Post by Sapient »

johndh wrote: My concern would not be that it would melt or be destroyed, but rather that it would be encased in tons of igneous rock when the lava cooled. Maybe the lava flow never reached where the scepter was, and the characters still died due to suffocation and/or massive troll overdose rather than burning to death? Even if the trolls found the scepter, they'd probably leave it alone because it held no interest to them, or their shamans could sense the madness within it and decided not to mess with it.
IMO, leaving the scepter's lava survival as an unexplained mystery should be acceptable, although there are a couple of plausible explanations. Unexpected and unexplained things DO happen, and that is the stuff of legends. However, I heartily agree with getting rid of the all the more needless coincidences.
http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/User:Sapient... "Looks like your skills saved us again. Uh, well at least, they saved Soarin's apple pie."
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Re: SoF: Dialog & storyline revision.

Post by Wesbane »

Pewskeepski wrote:But how is Alanin even suppose to know which tunnels to go down and how to get to the council?
If you would decide to use this approach the only thing that has a meaning is a way this mission was assigned to Alain. That Rugnur was able to hide his fear under the beard or not and act accordingly. Currently first possibility is the case. In second one Alanin should be more worried about it and possibly still claim that he has important informations even if he is late...
Pewskeepski wrote:I don't know, maybe it's not even that important? I mean, maybe we want more people to know about so it'll be even more legendary: Many dwarves searched for the scepter over the years but none could ever find it!
In Northern Rebirth Sceptre of Fire is known as legendary artefact.
Settling Disputes story fragment:
The only thing that maybe could use some explanation is why Peldruth story wasn't considered true in every aspect. But this is optional. Honestly how much words of clanless dwarf can be trusted? Especially such unbelievable like this?
johndh wrote:My concern would not be that it would melt or be destroyed, but rather that it would be encased in tons of igneous rock when the lava cooled. Maybe the lava flow never reached where the scepter was, and the characters still died due to suffocation and/or massive troll overdose rather than burning to death? Even if the trolls found the sceptre, they'd probably leave it alone because it held no interest to them, or their shamans could sense the madness within it and decided not to mess with it.
Well dwarfs could die from heat and toxic fumes. Like explosion itself wouldn't be deadly enough.
As for main concern in HttT sceptre is in geologically active location. So even if described events would happen it is still plenty of time before Konrad allowing item appearance in more accessible location. However most important thing is that SoF isn't a story about how Sceptre was found but how it was forged. As such this kind of deliberation are more appropriate in HttT story revision thread then here.
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Pewskeepski
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Re: SoF: Dialog & storyline revision.

Post by Pewskeepski »

Sorry for lateness. My computer got a virus so I've been busy backing up everything and getting it working again. I'll be able to write again soon though, so stay tuned :)
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Re: SoF: Dialog & storyline revision.

Post by Pewskeepski »

Scenario 6 (i keep getting the numbers wrong :P) is up! I'm going to take this time to mention that I haven't changed the names of the elvish leader who will make use of Lordbob's portrait yet. I'll leave it to Zookeeper to give him a set name. My plan is that the same elvish marshal is used from scenario 2 and onwards as the list goes...

Closing the Gates: Glindur
Hills of the Shorbear Clan: Lyndar
Towards the Caves: Gaenlar
The Dragon : Crintil
Caverns of Flame: Aendan
Attachments
Towards the Caves.txt
Towards the Caves - v0.1
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Re: SoF: Dialog & storyline revision.

Post by Pewskeepski »

Scenario 7: Outriding the Outriders is up! Pretty basic. Not much change.
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Outriding the Outriders.txt
Outriding the Outriders - v0.1
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Re: SoF: Dialog & storyline revision.

Post by Sapient »

Here's my review for Hills of the Shorbear Clan
Spoiler:
The Jeweler
Spoiler:
Towards the Caves
Spoiler:
And Outriding the Outriders:
Spoiler:

I haven't reviewed all the other ones, but there are other places where you use "lets" (meaning: allows) when you should have used "let's" (meaning: let us).
http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/User:Sapient... "Looks like your skills saved us again. Uh, well at least, they saved Soarin's apple pie."
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Re: SoF: Dialog & storyline revision.

Post by Pewskeepski »

Thanks. Wow I never realized there were so many mistakes. I'll have to be more careful in the future. And yeah, I'm trying to go easy on the semi-colons.

Attached fixed versions and will soon return with Scenario 8!
Attachments
Outriding the Outriders.txt
Outriding the Outriders - v0.2
(1.62 KiB) Downloaded 251 times
The Jeweler.txt
The Jeweler - v0.4
(3.88 KiB) Downloaded 244 times
Towards the Caves.txt
Towards the Caves - v0.2
(4.84 KiB) Downloaded 247 times
Hills of the Shorbear Clan.txt
Hills of the Shorbear Clan - v0.2
(7.06 KiB) Downloaded 249 times
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Re: SoF: Dialog & storyline revision.

Post by Sapient »

Hills of the Shorbear Clan reads much better now. However I noticed you missed some "Lets" which should have been "Let's". Try doing a search.

"fare option" -- in this case, the correct word is "fair" not "fare" :wink:

Another problem I see in ALL the files-- which I am surprised escaped my attention until now-- is that you are consistently writing "scepter" instead of "sceptre." Technically that is a correct spelling, but for consistency's sake you should stick to the olde spelling. I mean, it *is* in the very name of the campaign!!! :lol2:
http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/User:Sapient... "Looks like your skills saved us again. Uh, well at least, they saved Soarin's apple pie."
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Re: SoF: Dialog & storyline revision.

Post by Pewskeepski »

Thanks. Fixed all the known mistakes. And attached a zip containing The Dragon and all the other updated files. In scenario 8, Khrakrahs doesn't talk anymore. I don't know much about Wesnothian lore concerning this, but I never liked the idea of dragons talking. I always thought that communicating abilities should be saved for drakes. But if this doesn't match Wesnoth's vision for a dragon I can change it.
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Scepter of Fire - Story.zip
Includes Scenario's 1-8.
(21.83 KiB) Downloaded 258 times
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Re: SoF: Dialog & storyline revision.

Post by Sapient »

Somehow a stray word "fare" slipped into the Shorbear file. Probably you typed it while you were trying to do a search and didn't notice it there. :doh:

Here's a review for the Dragon
Spoiler:
I don't oppose the concept of talking dragons, since they are such clever creatures. But I imagine dragons have their own way of communicating with each other. And a hostile dragon living in a remote, hidden location wouldn't have had much reason to learn other forms of communication. So it makes sense, to me at least, that not all dragons need be talking dragons.
http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/User:Sapient... "Looks like your skills saved us again. Uh, well at least, they saved Soarin's apple pie."
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Re: SoF: Dialog & storyline revision.

Post by Pewskeepski »

Sapient wrote:Somehow a stray word "fare" slipped into the Shorbear file. Probably you typed it while you were trying to do a search and didn't notice it there. :doh:
Oops, my bad :P
Sapient wrote:Here's a review for the Dragon
Spoiler:
Fixed!

Here's Caverns of Flame (almost done!). I don't have anything to comment on myself, but be sure to let me know what you think.
Attachments
Scepter of Fire - Story.zip
Scenarios 1-9
(24.04 KiB) Downloaded 245 times
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Re: SoF: Dialog & storyline revision.

Post by Sapient »

Are you sure you saved your fixes to The Dragon? It still says "to end your injustice acts."

Anyway, here is my feedback for Caverns of Flame:
Spoiler:
http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/User:Sapient... "Looks like your skills saved us again. Uh, well at least, they saved Soarin's apple pie."
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Re: SoF: Dialog & storyline revision.

Post by Pewskeepski »

Sorry for taking so long with this one. But hey, it's done! There's probably going to be some necessary revisions, but the last scenario is complete!

And I have addressed all mistakes mentioned above.
Attachments
Scepter of Fire - Story.zip
Scenarios 1-10
(26.78 KiB) Downloaded 247 times
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