SoF: Dialog & storyline revision.

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Pewskeepski
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SoF: Dialog & storyline revision.

Post by Pewskeepski »

After playing the Scepter of Fire, I ask zookeeper about it and he said I can go ahead and work on revising the dialog in this campaign. I hope to make the story more realistic with stronger dialog and more mature characters while still keeping it a fun tale about some unheroic dwarves who craft the most famous artifact in Wesnoth.

Scenario 1: A Bargain is Struck. (v0.4)
I tried to make the starting part shorter and more to the point. And make Glildur and Haldric's dialog feel less modern and more middle aged. The dialog when the caravans unload the silver and Alanin reaches you castle haven't changed much, and the elves' attack taunts have not been changed at all.

Scenario 2: Closing the Gates (v0.4)
Wanted to make Baglur's dialog easier to read and understand while keeping the accent in place. This dialog makes Alanin stay with you for the scenario (not sure if this is a balance issue?) because I never thought it believable that he (a human on horseback in a cave) would be able to go and warn the council. I also added a little drama if dwarves get trapped outside.

Scenario 3: In the Dwarven City (v0.2)
This one change quite a bit, I think. Now Durstorn opposes the idea of having Thusagan craft the scepter instead of Baglur. And Durstorn of course has some slightly more traits of character.

Scenario 4: Searching for the Runecrafter (v0.2)
First off, Krawg has been turned into a gryphon rider named Peldruth. Me and Zookeeper both agreed that we can scratch the cheesy bird talk for something else. I'd like to know what others think about him becoming a rider though. The only other real difference is that Thusagan doesn't say anything when he reaches the caves; nothing I wrote really fit, and it seemed unnecessary.

Scenario 5: The Council Regathers (v0.2)
The changes made here are pretty much the same as the changes made to scenario 3. I shuffled things around, and hinted at some back story to Durstorn and Thursagan.

Feel free to critique, comment, and such here!
Attachments
The Council Regathers.txt
The Council Regathers - v0.2
(3.24 KiB) Downloaded 292 times
In the Dwarven City.txt
In the Dwarven City - v0.2
(3.77 KiB) Downloaded 604 times
Closing the Gates.txt
Closing the Gates - v0.4
(5.79 KiB) Downloaded 284 times
A Bargain is Struck.txt
A Bargain is Struck - v0.4
(7.29 KiB) Downloaded 293 times
Searching for the Runecrafter.txt
Searching for the Runecrafter - v0.2
(3.28 KiB) Downloaded 618 times
Last edited by Pewskeepski on May 5th, 2012, 1:51 am, edited 9 times in total.
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Telchin
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Re: SoF: Dialog & storyline revision.

Post by Telchin »

You seem to use word "higher", when it should be "hire" ("higher more troops") Is it a typo or some medieval slang?
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taptap
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Re: SoF: Dialog & storyline revision.

Post by taptap »

Pewskeepski wrote:After playing the Scepter of Fire, I ask zookeeper about it and he said I can go ahead and work on revising the dialog in this campaign. I hope to make the story more realistic with stronger dialog and more mature characters while still keeping it a fun tale about some unheroic dwarves who craft the most famous artifact in Wesnoth.
Yes! Thank you! (Comments would be much easier if you could provide a diff or just two files with the original and your version.)
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Pewskeepski
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Re: SoF: Dialog & storyline revision.

Post by Pewskeepski »

Telchin wrote:You seem to use word "higher", when it should be "hire" ("higher more troops") Is it a typo or some medieval slang?
Nope, it's a typo. Thanks for reporting, it'll be fixed soon.
taptap wrote:Yes! Thank you! (Comments would be much easier if you could provide a diff or just two files with the original and your version.)
Your welcome! I don't know how to provide a diff but as for the suggestion of having two files, you could look at the scenario's cfg file and scroll to the dialog sections if you want a comparison.
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Pewskeepski
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Re: SoF: Dialog & storyline revision.

Post by Pewskeepski »

Attached ABiS: Version 0.2.

Fixed the typo, and added some dialog when if the player kills Glildur. I'm eagerly waiting to hear what zookeeper has to say about this.
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taptap
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Re: SoF: Dialog & storyline revision.

Post by taptap »

The main point I would change in the first scenario: I would not put the king in danger... let it be an ambassador or sth. On hard difficulty he invariably dies if one doesn't assassinate the elven leader. What an end for a king, slain by an insignificant rebel force while travelling around.
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zookeeper
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Re: SoF: Dialog & storyline revision.

Post by zookeeper »

I don't really find much to comment on; looks ok to me. And I agree that Haldric should not actually end up being in danger (at least not on anything but the hardest difficulty), but shuffling the map layout around a bit doesn't seem to warrant any dialogue changes.
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Pewskeepski
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Re: SoF: Dialog & storyline revision.

Post by Pewskeepski »

Attached CtG: Version 0.1.

It's here and in the first post now. The first post also contains my thoughts on it.
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Closing the Gates.txt
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zookeeper
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Re: SoF: Dialog & storyline revision.

Post by zookeeper »

Typos aside, if Alanin is going to stick around, then he should have more to say. And since he moves so poorly in caves, there might be a temptation for the player to send him out of the gates to delay or harass the elves, so it'd be in order to have some dialogue to suggest to be careful with him.

Secondly, at the point where the player has a unit on all but the last glyph, and has a unit within range of it, there should be some dialogue to remind them that when the last glyph is stepped on, everyone outside dies. Have the ones outside plead for you to wait, or something. Special epic fail dialogue wouldn't be out of place if you manage to accidentally leave Alanin (or Rugnur, for that matter) outside, either.

Thirdly, I'm pretty sure we should generally be avoiding words like "ok" and "yeah", with the possible exception being particularly informal characters (thieves, peasants, orcs, etc).

Finally, a seemingly good place to insert some light funniness would be for Glildur to get angry when the dwarves are disrespecting his authority by ignoring him during their conversation.
Daravel
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Re: SoF: Dialog & storyline revision.

Post by Daravel »

I've only had a brief read through.

- You start with Haldric as being a bit arrogant and certain of himself "Are you not permitted to make a deal? If not, send someone before me who is at once." but then he softens within 10 lines to be far more placcid "I offer you five-thousand pieces of silver." and "There is no deal then. Apologies for troubling you, my men and I shall move out as soon as we can to a dwarvish clan who will accept my price."

I'd have expected something more like "I will pay five thousand pieces of silver" and "Then we do not have a deal. Perhaps one of the others dwarvish clans will accept my price".

- I find that Rugnur switches from a slightly 'stupid' dwarf to an efficient craftsmen quite a lot "King of Wesnoth? A bargain? Uh, you'll probably want to speak with Durstorn, our tribe leader, then." "Me? Well, uh, okay... What is this about?" and "No, nothing below fifteen! Any cheaper and I'll be in trouble with the tribal leaders!" All these make him appear a bit slow and simple. Compared to "Something like this will take a long time to construct. Probably many years. How much are you gonna pay for this... 'Scepter of Fire'?" and "You humans don't know what it takes to craft an item of such magnificence! So... twenty-thousand, at least.".

In the second set he appears to more competent and self-assured in his actions. In the first set he is worried about being told off!

- I also feel you mix archaic/old English styles with a modern style too much. I'd recommend avoiding the use of could've, can't, don't etc. "Way to go, boys! Now that the warlord is slain, we can collect what we need in peace."

- The use of (brackets) to denote whispering is inelegant. I recommend putting whispers/thoughts into italics.
Haldric II:
Are you not permitted to make a deal? If not, send someone before me who is at once.
Rugnur:
They would refuse to come, trust me. You must come into the caves, and go to the city in person, or send a representative.
Haldric II:
No, dwarf, that will not be necessary; I will make the bargain with you.
Rugnur:
Me? Well, uh, okay... What is this about?
Haldric II:
Have you heard of the Ruby of Fire? It is an artifact brought to this land by my father. But now that my father is dead, the ruby has fallen into my possession.
Rugnur:
What's this got to do with us?
Haldric II:
Well you see, I have this problem. The Ruby has an unnoticeable magical aura that darkens the hearts of those around it, it makes people lust for power and energy. I notice the transition with my father. The closer he got to the stone, the more arrogant, almost evil, he became. After a while, he became obsessed with the Ruby's power which led to some... unfortunate decisions.
Rugnur:
Sounds tragic... But I still don't understand what this has to do with us?
Haldric II:
About ten years ago, I met with some elves in Weldyn who spoke of a mage named Crelanu. This man said the radiance of the stone could be contained in a way that would prevent the corrupting effect while still being the powerful stone that it is.
Rugnur:
And what... you want us to do this, contain the radiance of the stone? By making an artifact of some kind?
Haldric II:
Exactly. I wish for you dwarves to craft the stone into a mighty artifact that will leverage the power, but contain it as well. Since it shall be a symbol of my kingdom and a sign of my ruler-ship, I wish for the artifact to be a scepter; A Scepter of Fire.
Rugnur:
Something like this will take a long time to construct. Probably many years. How much are you gonna pay for this... 'Scepter of Fire'?
Haldric II:
I offer you five-thousand pieces of silver.
Rugnur:
You humans don't know what it takes to craft an item of such magnificence! So... twenty-thousand, at least.
Haldric II:
Indeed I do not know of what skills and time it takes to craft a masterpiece, but I will raise my price only to ten-thousand; That should be sufficient.
I think this section could flow a bit better. First Haldric scorns the dwarf for not being allowed to make a deal with him and demands someone of rank, then, changes his mind in an instant and insists that he will make it with the dwarf (who only a few lines previously said that he couldn't and that Haldric had to go to the city).
Rugnur spends 4 lines complaining that he doesn't understand what Haldric wants, I think it would flow better for Haldric to tell the whole story first.


I apologise if I sound really harsh, I've never offered critique before! I'm by no means an expert myself.
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Re: SoF: Dialog & storyline revision.

Post by Pewskeepski »

zookeeper wrote:Typos aside, if Alanin is going to stick around, then he should have more to say. And since he moves so poorly in caves, there might be a temptation for the player to send him out of the gates to delay or harass the elves, so it'd be in order to have some dialogue to suggest to be careful with him.

Secondly, at the point where the player has a unit on all but the last glyph, and has a unit within range of it, there should be some dialogue to remind them that when the last glyph is stepped on, everyone outside dies. Have the ones outside plead for you to wait, or something. Special epic fail dialogue wouldn't be out of place if you manage to accidentally leave Alanin (or Rugnur, for that matter) outside, either.

Thirdly, I'm pretty sure we should generally be avoiding words like "ok" and "yeah", with the possible exception being particularly informal characters (thieves, peasants, orcs, etc).

Finally, a seemingly good place to insert some light funniness would be for Glildur to get angry when the dwarves are disrespecting his authority by ignoring him during their conversation.
Ok, I took all this into thought, and made some changes.
Daravel wrote:- You start with Haldric as being a bit arrogant and certain of himself "Are you not permitted to make a deal? If not, send someone before me who is at once." but then he softens within 10 lines to be far more placcid "I offer you five-thousand pieces of silver." and "There is no deal then. Apologies for troubling you, my men and I shall move out as soon as we can to a dwarvish clan who will accept my price."

I'd have expected something more like "I will pay five thousand pieces of silver" and "Then we do not have a deal. Perhaps one of the others dwarvish clans will accept my price".
Hmm, I think my sarcastic character kicked in when I wrote that :)
Daravel wrote:- I find that Rugnur switches from a slightly 'stupid' dwarf to an efficient craftsmen quite a lot "King of Wesnoth? A bargain? Uh, you'll probably want to speak with Durstorn, our tribe leader, then." "Me? Well, uh, okay... What is this about?" and "No, nothing below fifteen! Any cheaper and I'll be in trouble with the tribal leaders!" All these make him appear a bit slow and simple. Compared to "Something like this will take a long time to construct. Probably many years. How much are you gonna pay for this... 'Scepter of Fire'?" and "You humans don't know what it takes to craft an item of such magnificence! So... twenty-thousand, at least.".

In the second set he appears to more competent and self-assured in his actions. In the first set he is worried about being told off!
I suppose. I'll think about tweaking it.
Daravel wrote:I think this section could flow a bit better. First Haldric scorns the dwarf for not being allowed to make a deal with him and demands someone of rank, then, changes his mind in an instant and insists that he will make it with the dwarf (who only a few lines previously said that he couldn't and that Haldric had to go to the city).
Rugnur spends 4 lines complaining that he doesn't understand what Haldric wants, I think it would flow better for Haldric to tell the whole story first.
He demands someone of rank and then changes his mind because he's not very patient and wants to make the bargain asap.
Daravel wrote:- The use of (brackets) to denote whispering is inelegant. I recommend putting whispers/thoughts into italics.
That's just to let zookeeper know they're whispering so he knows to add the {WHISPER} macro when implementing the dialog. It's not actually going to be there.
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Closing the Gates.txt
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Telchin
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Re: SoF: Dialog & storyline revision.

Post by Telchin »

Before this project continues, I'd like to mention one inconstistency between Hammer of Thursagan and Sceptre of Fire. In THoT it's mentioned that all dwarvish runesmiths sweared at Thursagan's Hammer and died when Thursagan. This doesn't match with SoF. I think either of these campaigns should be tweaked to make them more consistent. (I think it would be eaier in THoT).
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Re: SoF: Dialog & storyline revision.

Post by Pewskeepski »

Telchin wrote:Before this project continues, I'd like to mention one inconstistency between Hammer of Thursagan and Sceptre of Fire. In THoT it's mentioned that all dwarvish runesmiths sweared at Thursagan's Hammer and died when Thursagan. This doesn't match with SoF. I think either of these campaigns should be tweaked to make them more consistent. (I think it would be eaier in THoT).
It's up to the developers, so I'll let them decide.

Anyway, Attached ItDC: Version 0.1..
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In the Dwarven City.txt
In the Dwarven City - v0.1
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Pewskeepski
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Re: SoF: Dialog & storyline revision.

Post by Pewskeepski »

Finished scenario 4 scenario 3 and attached it here! Feel free to comment and critique, if you want to. And see the first post for details.
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Searching for the Runecrafter.txt
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Last edited by Pewskeepski on March 27th, 2012, 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SoF: Dialog & storyline revision.

Post by Pewskeepski »

Attach Scenario 3t. Sorry if anyone noticed I got the scenario numbers wrong. I forgot the talk scenarios are not numbered in this campaign. Anyway, I updated the previous scenarios to include some time over dialog as well.
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The Council Regathers.txt
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