Sceptre of Fire during the "Eastern Invasion"'s events

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Xalzar
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Sceptre of Fire during the "Eastern Invasion"'s events

Post by Xalzar »

I have a question about the Sceptre of Fire (I searched in the forum whether someone already had asked similar questions but I have found nothing). :hmm:

Resuming History:
-the nucleus of it, the Ruby of Fire, is a powerful artifact of the Wesfolk people. It was discovered in the year 1 BW and taken away by Haldric.
-it was hidden in a cave and Haldric and Orcs are deceived into believing it is held by the Elves.
-Elves inform Haldric II, the next king, of the danger posed by the unshielded Ruby of Fire.
-in year 25 YW a Wesnothian expedition retrieves the Ruby from the cavern.
-Haldric II commissions a Dwarven tribe to build the Scepter of Fire with the Ruby of Fire as its centerpiece.
-the Scepter was both completed and lost in the Caverns of Flame in the year 40. It will not be recovered for nearly 500 years.
-in 478 YW king Garard issues the Edict of the Sceptre, providing that the crown shall settle after his death on whichever member of the royal family successfully retrieves it from the Caverns of Flame.
-in 518 YW Konrad and Li'sar succeeded in finding it; the Sceptre finally made its way to Weldyn.

Then? ... :hmm:

In 626 YW Mal-Ravanal launched an unstoppable invasion against Wesnoth. He even arrived at the gates of Weldyn, and Wesnoth was saved only because Ravanal was so proud that exposed himself and was fortuitously killed.

But, and there is the point, why the Sceptre of Fire was not used against the undead during the invasion? It was in Weldyn! :doh:

And then... nothing else. <<Sceptre? Never heard about such things.>> (but then the campaigns involving directly the kingdom of Wesnoth do stop, so it's comprehensible I guess)

Am I missing something important? :hmm:

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Pewskeepski
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Re: Sceptre of Fire during the "Eastern Invasion"'s events

Post by Pewskeepski »

You make a good point. I personally always thought it was weird that Konrad II is only a general (especially since the player has probably leveled Gweddry up to a marshal). I think Konrad II should the same level 3 unit of Konrad I (with the scepter), IMO.

Because there's no evidence against it, I assume the scepter of fire is actually in the possession of the king at the time.

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Re: Sceptre of Fire during the "Eastern Invasion"'s events

Post by monochromatic »

My impression is that the Sceptre of Fire would have become largely ornamental and/or ceremonial. Furthermore, the fear of losing the Ruby of Fire to a madman like Mal Ravanal would probably have been tremendous. Konrad II may have had the Sceptre hidden away so if Mal Ravanal did indeed invade and occupy Wesnoth, he still would not have access to the Sceptre.

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Re: Sceptre of Fire during the "Eastern Invasion"'s events

Post by Lord-Knightmare »

Another (possible) reason would be that the Scepter was perhaps in the possession of another family member (Konrad II's cousin?) who was away from Weldyn at that time of Eastern Invasion.

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Re: Sceptre of Fire during the "Eastern Invasion"'s events

Post by Groggy_Dice »

Xalzar wrote:I have a question about the Sceptre of Fire...

But, and there is the point, why the Sceptre of Fire was not used against the undead during the invasion? It was in Weldyn! :doh:
I wondered the same thing myself, when playing the Weldyn scenarios of Eastern Invasion.

Perhaps the Scepter has been lost/hidden again, and is what Mal Ravanal was "searching" for? (In the first scenario, Mal Ravanal talks about a "search" continuing, but at least in the branches I took, it never came up again who or what he was searching for, and was never resolved.)
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Re: Sceptre of Fire during the "Eastern Invasion"'s events

Post by Lord-Knightmare »

Groggy_Dice wrote:
Xalzar wrote:I have a question about the Sceptre of Fire...

But, and there is the point, why the Sceptre of Fire was not used against the undead during the invasion? It was in Weldyn! :doh:
I wondered the same thing myself, when playing the Weldyn scenarios of Eastern Invasion.

Perhaps the Scepter has been lost/hidden again, and is what Mal Ravanal was "searching" for? (In the first scenario, Mal Ravanal talks about a "search" continuing, but at least in the branches I took, it never came up again who or what he was searching for, and was never resolved.)
Mal-Ravanal talks about the mage Dacyn

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Xalzar
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Re: Sceptre of Fire during the "Eastern Invasion"'s events

Post by Xalzar »

Maybe we should add some lines in order to explain this situation (maybe in the dialogue scenario of the council in Weldyn?).
Sure, there are at least two possible explanations:
1) the Sceptre is not available at the moment (for various reasons);
2) they decide not to use the Sceptre (for various reasons).

At this point, I think I should talk to the current mantainer. Maybe he/she is interested in clarifying this situation. But...who is the current mantainer? :hmm:

P.S.: sorry, bad and repetitive English, I know. :doh:

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Re: Sceptre of Fire during the "Eastern Invasion"'s events

Post by zookeeper »

Xalzar wrote:Maybe we should add some lines in order to explain this situation (maybe in the dialogue scenario of the council in Weldyn?).
Sure, there are at least two possible explanations:
1) the Sceptre is not available at the moment (for various reasons);
2) they decide not to use the Sceptre (for various reasons).

At this point, I think I should talk to the current mantainer. Maybe he/she is interested in clarifying this situation. But...who is the current mantainer? :hmm:
I am, and I don't mind expanding the story in one of the abovementioned ways, but writing and proofreading notable dialogue/prose changes usually falls to esr.

Also, don't be afraid of suggesting changes to the gameplay of the final scenarios if you think the sceptre could be involved in ways other than dialogue. For example, we could change things so that they do end up using the sceptre, either as just a weapon as usual, or as something that can be used to bait and trap Ravanal, who'd probably want it (just like Jevyan did even though it doesn't seem like a hugely special artifact; maybe it has some unknown value to liches).

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Xalzar
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Re: Sceptre of Fire during the "Eastern Invasion"'s events

Post by Xalzar »

zookeeper wrote:
Xalzar wrote:Maybe we should add some lines in order to explain this situation (maybe in the dialogue scenario of the council in Weldyn?).
Sure, there are at least two possible explanations:
1) the Sceptre is not available at the moment (for various reasons);
2) they decide not to use the Sceptre (for various reasons).

At this point, I think I should talk to the current mantainer. Maybe he/she is interested in clarifying this situation. But...who is the current mantainer? :hmm:
I am, and I don't mind expanding the story in one of the abovementioned ways, but writing and proofreading notable dialogue/prose changes usually falls to esr.

Also, don't be afraid of suggesting changes to the gameplay of the final scenarios if you think the sceptre could be involved in ways other than dialogue. For example, we could change things so that they do end up using the sceptre, either as just a weapon as usual, or as something that can be used to bait and trap Ravanal, who'd probably want it (just like Jevyan did even though it doesn't seem like a hugely special artifact; maybe it has some unknown value to liches).
Really, I only wanted to point out one of the (few) gaps in the events of the History of Wesnoth (in which I am really interested) and simply add few lines to cover it.
If the gameplay of the last scenarios is in discussion, I think I'm not the best person to ask for ideas (I'm relatively new to this forum, I have no authority in this field). So I can't have (and I really do not have) the presumption to ask for changes in a mainline campaign. But if my point will serve also to improve gameplay, this will overcome even my rosiest expectations.

Another point:
zookeeper wrote:maybe it has some unknown value to liches
I do not understand why a lich would ever want the Sceptre (and the Ruby before): the Lich-Lord Lenvan carefully avoided it...
Rise of Wesnoth wrote:It’s funny that the lich-lord didn’t have this on his person.
---> fire = no good for liches

But, if Liches can't use it, why do they want it?
Lich-Lord Caror:
Rise of Wesnoth wrote:Free, I’m free, and I feel the Ruby of Fire! It will be mine.
and, obviously, Jevian...
Maybe, "shielded" as Sceptre of Fire, it's now less dangerous even for them... (but remember the "shielding" is for its side effects, not for its power)

Also, I never quite understand why the Ruby "evilizes" its wielder... (maybe something interesting to explore in an UMC project *hint* *hint* :P )

P.S.: my own English disgust me; sorry for that... and thank you for your attention.
P.P.S.: so I should contact esr I guess?

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Re: Sceptre of Fire during the "Eastern Invasion"'s events

Post by esr »

Good points have been raised here. I have patched EI so Konrad is present and has the Sceptre in the EI siege scenarios.This shouldn't even really be a balance issue as the player will already have had access to high-level mages; to make players a little more careful I have made death of the King an instant lose.

Zookeeper is interested in developing a more elaborate storyline, perhaps even one in which Mal-Ravanal has stolen the Sceptre. But this should solve the immediate continuity problem.

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Xalzar
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Re: Sceptre of Fire during the "Eastern Invasion"'s events

Post by Xalzar »

esr wrote:Good points have been raised here. I have patched EI so Konrad is present and has the Sceptre in the EI siege scenarios.This shouldn't even really be a balance issue as the player will already have had access to high-level mages; to make players a little more careful I have made death of the King an instant lose.

Zookeeper is interested in developing a more elaborate storyline, perhaps even one in which Mal-Ravanal has stolen the Sceptre. But this should solve the immediate continuity problem.
What efficiency! :shock: I'm positively surprised. :D

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Re: Sceptre of Fire during the "Eastern Invasion"'s events

Post by Pewskeepski »

zookeeper wrote:Also, don't be afraid of suggesting changes to the gameplay of the final scenarios if you think the sceptre could be involved in ways other than dialogue.
How about Konrad holds the scepter in his portrait? He's getting a new one here, soon.

Somewhat related to this topic: I always thought it was weird that even if you take the branch that leads you to Ravanal's lair, Dacyn still says at the end "Mal-Ravanal didn't know I was with Gweddry." (Not in those exact words of course, but that's the jist of it)

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Re: Sceptre of Fire during the "Eastern Invasion"'s events

Post by pauxlo »

Pewskeepski wrote:How about Konrad holds the scepter in his portrait? He's getting a new one here, soon.
You linked the icon, not the thread. But if you wanted to link to the HttT portrait thread, the Konrad in Eastern invasion is another one than the one in Heir to the Throne.

(HttT occurs in 517/518, Konrad I reigns with Li'sar until 563, then Ana'sar until 585, then Haldric VII until 612, then Konrad II. Eastern Invasion occurs 625 to 627. Konrad II lives and reigns until 673.)

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Pewskeepski
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Re: Sceptre of Fire during the "Eastern Invasion"'s events

Post by Pewskeepski »

Oops. And no, I meant the one from EI, (Konrad II) I just called him Konrad. Portraits are being redone here

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Re: Sceptre of Fire during the "Eastern Invasion"'s events

Post by Ellisae »

I will keep an eye on this topic, then, to see what's decided. I am more than willing to give the EI version of Konrad II the scepter if wanted.
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