The Fall of Wesnoth (Storyline discussion)

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Re: The Fall of Wesnoth (Storyline discussion)

Post by Gambit »

So, you clearly know that useless multi-posting is wrong. I'm a little confused at why you did it anyway rather than just editing and/or deleting the needless multi-posts. Please do explain.
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Re: The Fall of Wesnoth (Storyline discussion)

Post by Pewskeepski »

He probably clicked the "Post Reply" button to many times and then just edited the two posts not knowing that he could delete them. It's happened to me before :) EDIT: Oh wait, it seems he didn't edit the third one. Strange :???:
Bennoman wrote:The rivalry between the main character and rovistar is a great dynamics that could be built upon, espically if he is a corrupt warden. So why have Evad at all? If you want someone to become a powerful big bad why add that convolution to the story. Rovistar being the warden of the island gives him both isolation from the powers that be, and absolute power within his realm. In other words he can do what he wants and gets away with it, including becoming a powerful necromancer... Adding an extra evil and dynamic to this story just seems unnecessary, when you have so much room to craft a narrative which tells the story of the characters hate for each other.
Okay, here's an idea about Rovistar:

He secretly uses necromancy to summon undead warriors on the island. One particular corpse that he raises is Evad's, who is a really powerful wizard. Evad curses Rovistar and forces him to do whatever he wants. Rovistar leaves the Three Sisters at Evad's command and returns to Wesnoth. He has some meetings with the king, and it is decided that a third sun will be raised into the sky (They were already discussing this, but they weren't sure. Until Rovistar came). By now, Alitar has attacked Rovistar, but (instead of succeeding) has failed to kill him because he got away. Rovistar gathers some corpses (also at Evad's command) and attacks Weldyn while they're raising the third sun. After the sun falls, Evad arrives in Wesnoth and starts taking over. He makes Rovistar look like the true bad-guy behind all this, which naturally makes Evad look good.

This could provide an interesting plot twister. You think Rovistar is the one behind all this. But once you kill him, you realize that he was nothing more than Evad's puppet.
Bennoman wrote:I still think if you want to do a campaign that tells the story after the fall it should be a separate campaign. Otherwise it will feel disjointed in tone. if you do it as a squeal this gives you opptunity to allow for character growth and change between the campaigns and the distance of time between the two stories will allow for you create all kinds of story telling devices.

However the story of the fall as you pointed out is not so much about the falling of the sun but about the warlords and monsters, and necromancers and rampaging orcs that ruin it afterwards. It's these things that stop the empire recovering and thus leading to the post apocalyptic world in under the burning suns.
Thanks. I'll be mindful of this once I start writing that part of the story.
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Re: The Fall of Wesnoth (Storyline discussion)

Post by Bennoman »

Gambit wrote:So, you clearly know that useless multi-posting is wrong. I'm a little confused at why you did it anyway rather than just editing and/or deleting the needless multi-posts. Please do explain.
wow seems a rather extreme response!

I edited down to as they are now, seemed the appropriate thing to do. I did not for one moment think it would raise the ire of people on here.


post 2
Pewskeepski wrote:He probably clicked the "Post Reply" button to many times and then just edited the two posts not knowing that he could delete them. It's happened to me before :) EDIT: Oh wait, it seems he didn't edit the third one. Strange :???:
nope edited them all so who knows.... Anyway an odd topic of conversation lets move on to more productive things.
Okay, here's an idea about Rovistar:

He secretly uses necromancy to summon undead warriors on the island. One particular corpse that he raises is Evad's, who is a really powerful wizard. Evad curses Rovistar and forces him to do whatever he wants. Rovistar leaves the Three Sisters at Evad's command and returns to Wesnoth. He has some meetings with the king, and it is decided that a third sun will be raised into the sky (They were already discussing this, but they weren't sure. Until Rovistar came). By now, Alitar has attacked Rovistar, but (instead of succeeding) has failed to kill him because he got away. Rovistar gathers some corpses (also at Evad's command) and attacks Weldyn while they're raising the third sun. After the sun falls, Evad arrives in Wesnoth and starts taking over. He makes Rovistar look like the true bad-guy behind all this, which naturally makes Evad look good.

This could provide an interesting plot twister. You think Rovistar is the one behind all this. But once you kill him, you realize that he was nothing more than Evad's puppet.
I can see that working.

But i have the nagging issue in my head that Evad seems to pop out of nowhere. If you want to want to include him in the story i think the player would have to be familiar with him before you the big reveal of him being rovistar's lord and master. Also the other issue would be if he sends off rovistar to the mainland to disrupt the ritual of raising the does that mean the main character will follow him or will it happen off stage so to speak?

I think you will have to consider how to show or tell that part of the story. Otherwise i think its starting to show real shape and promise.
Last edited by Gambit on June 9th, 2011, 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Fall of Wesnoth (Storyline discussion)

Post by Bennoman »

Ok so I have been thinking and I believe I have come up with a great idea of how you resolve the problem of Evad being in the story from right from the beginning so he is not suddenly dropped on the players lap in surprise. It also sets up a few nifty plot devices and explains the relationship between rovistar and evad without it being a mindless puppet/master one.

Evad is a lich, a really ancient lich, he was there since the early days of Wesnorth, always building his power in quiet, always manipulating but never putting himself in harms way. Until now. Considering his quiet influence over the history of the empire he was there during the raising of the second sun, so he knows in detail how they did it, he knows the difficulties they had to overcome and the safety measures that were taken to avoid it failing. So when the raising of the third sun was suggested he listened intently at the meeting realizing that they have missed something, that irregardless of what they will do its going to fail because they have lost the knowledge of the golden age. He could of used his influence though to tell everyone... to save the empire from destruction. But instead he sees this as his time and opptunity to seize control of all wesnorth. The fall of the sun will destroy the capital and bring the empire to its knees all he would have to do is sweep in with an army.

This is where the penal colony comes in. Over the years Evad has made sure that his magic influences those around him so that he remains in one guise or another the minister of justice. He sets up and maintains a policy for the deportation of alot of criminals to the penal colony. This has effectively given him a perfect recruiting ground for his army. Thouse who reach the island are given the choice willingly submit to his warden (rovistar) and fight for him, or be hunted down and raised as undead and serve him in his zombie hordes.

Therefore the story becomes not one of trying to stop the fall or somehow starting it, but for the main character to make sure Evads plans are ruined enough so that he cannot just sweep in and destroy whats left of those who survived. It can also mean that the main character knows that the island will be safe from most of teh inital blast of teh sun, so he can seek to secure the island as a safe haven in the post fall era.
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Re: The Fall of Wesnoth (Storyline discussion)

Post by Pewskeepski »

Bennoman wrote:This is where the penal colony comes in. Over the years Evad has made sure that his magic influences those around him so that he remains in one guise or another the minister of justice. He sets up and maintains a policy for the deportation of alot of criminals to the penal colony. This has effectively given him a perfect recruiting ground for his army. Thouse who reach the island are given the choice willingly submit to his warden (rovistar) and fight for him, or be hunted down and raised as undead and serve him in his zombie hordes.
...Are you suggesting that Evad is in Wesnoth? On the Three Sisters? Or is he 'living' a double life in both places? (that'd be cool) Also, I was thinking the prisoners wouldn't fight for Rovistar, but have to survive on the island in exile.

Other then the concern above, I really like that idea. My take on it is that Evad is on the safety of the islands during the falling of the third sun. After the rock crushes everything, Rovistar starts reeking havoc on the ruins of Wesnoth and is slaughtering everybody with his army. This is all part of their plan--Evad comes to Wesnoth and tells everybody that the only way to stop Rovistar's undead army is for them to create an undead army themselves. This is also part of the plan. Evad is going to encourage everybody to raise undead minions, and once the massive army has been raised, Evad will take command of the zombies and use them to kill their former creators. Thus wiping out the remaining population of Wesnoth.
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Re: The Fall of Wesnoth (Storyline discussion)

Post by Bennoman »

Pewskeepski wrote: ...Are you suggesting that Evad is in Wesnoth? On the Three Sisters? Or is he 'living' a double life in both places? (that'd be cool) Also, I was thinking the prisoners wouldn't fight for Rovistar, but have to survive on the island in exile.
Literally living a double life. I was envisioning as he uses his magic to disguise himself and currently he is the minister for Justice. He runs all of Wesnorth's courts, prisons and law enforcement. And he uses this position to collect bodies by sending as many people to the island as possible. Also I think your idea is better the prisoners simply fight among themselves, evad can go in when ever he wants and raise the bodies in undeath.

though I would have it as part of the story that for the act of the raising of the sun he comes to the island. Claiming he wants to spend the greatest moment of Wesnorth's history with its most vunerable (or something like that).
Other then the concern above, I really like that idea. My take on it is that Evad is on the safety of the islands during the falling of the third sun. After the rock crushes everything, Rovistar starts reeking havoc on the ruins of Wesnoth and is slaughtering everybody with his army. This is all part of their plan--Evad comes to Wesnoth and tells everybody that the only way to stop Rovistar's undead army is for them to create an undead army themselves. This is also part of the plan. Evad is going to encourage everybody to raise undead minions, and once the massive army has been raised, Evad will take command of the zombies and use them to kill their former creators. Thus wiping out the remaining population of Wesnoth.
I honestly dont think you need Evad sweeping in pretending to be a hero. Wesnorth will already be shattered and easily controled. I think the goal for the protagonist in this campaign is to stop them getting to the mainland, or to destroy enough of the army to make him just another warlord rather than someone who could take over the contient.
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Re: The Fall of Wesnoth (Storyline discussion)

Post by Pewskeepski »

Bennoman wrote:Literally living a double life. I was envisioning as he uses his magic to disguise himself and currently he is the minister for Justice. He runs all of Wesnorth's courts, prisons and law enforcement. And he uses this position to collect bodies by sending as many people to the island as possible. Also I think your idea is better the prisoners simply fight among themselves, evad can go in when ever he wants and raise the bodies in undeath.
How about this: Evad is both the minister of justice and the terror of the three sisters! Evad has confined his soul into the ancient lich's body while also keeping his own body alive. Basically, he's divided his soul into two parts, one part controls the lich on the tropical islands, and the other controls his living body as the minister of justice. This obviously makes Evad very powerful as most necromancers can't do this. Most necromancers will just control one object, which is almost always their own corpse. But Evad is controlling two bodies :twisted:
Bennoman wrote:though I would have it as part of the story that for the act of the raising of the sun he comes to the island. Claiming he wants to spend the greatest moment of Wesnorth's history with its most vunerable (or something like that).
Sounds good to me.
Bennoman wrote:I honestly dont think you need Evad sweeping in pretending to be a hero. Wesnorth will already be shattered and easily controled. I think the goal for the protagonist in this campaign is to stop them getting to the mainland, or to destroy enough of the army to make him just another warlord rather than someone who could take over the contient.
Yeah, I guess so. Here's my background idea about Evad's power.

Evad has a special ankh which allows it's bearer to control undead minions. Not raise them. Just control them. The power which allows this is so powerful that it can override any necromancer's magic. In other words, a wizard could raise some zombies, and then Evad could come along and take command of them easy as pie. Evad uses this ankh to summon every zombie in the world to his presence. However, it takes time for undead soldiers to travel all across the continent so Alitar has some time before Evad's army reaches it's full size.

(P.S for those of you who might know--Yes I'm talking about the ankh in my previous campaign Burning Souls. And yes, I did plan all this way back then.)
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Re: The Fall of Wesnoth (Storyline discussion)

Post by Bennoman »

Pewskeepski wrote: How about this: Evad is both the minister of justice and the terror of the three sisters! Evad has confined his soul into the ancient lich's body while also keeping his own body alive. Basically, he's divided his soul into two parts, one part controls the lich on the tropical islands, and the other controls his living body as the minister of justice. This obviously makes Evad very powerful as most necromancers can't do this. Most necromancers will just control one object, which is almost always their own corpse. But Evad is controlling two bodies :twisted:
Sure you can put that into the story, just seems like its being added for the sake of being added. If you really want him to effectively two bodies why don't you just keep it through his power of necromancy so the justice minister is actually a high level undead under his control. That means he doesn't even have to come up with an excuse to leave the island in the first place.
Evad has a special ankh which allows it's bearer to control undead minions. Not raise them. Just control them. The power which allows this is so powerful that it can override any necromancer's magic. In other words, a wizard could raise some zombies, and then Evad could come along and take command of them easy as pie. Evad uses this ankh to summon every zombie in the world to his presence. However, it takes time for undead soldiers to travel all across the continent so Alitar has some time before Evad's army reaches it's full size.

(P.S for those of you who might know--Yes I'm talking about the ankh in my previous campaign Burning Souls. And yes, I did plan all this way back then.)
Yes excellent idea, and no.

The idea of the ankh is very cool and is an excellent plot device, but it is too powerful. You can never up the antie if you use it in the story. If it starts off with the power to control every undead in the world then where do you go next?

What i would suggest is simply it has a range of so much... say 10 miles. So that effectively he can create a fortress area immune to undead invasion. And you can then use the plot device of a ritual or similar to make it more powerful, and that then becomes a race against time for the main character to stop it becoming more powerful.

So in the sequeal campaign Evad has made his beach head on the shores of Wesnorth but due to the damage done to his army in the first campaign he cannot expand as much as he would like... Therefore through what ever way he decides to empower the Ankh, and the hero must stop this before he becomes too powerful.
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Re: The Fall of Wesnoth (Storyline discussion)

Post by Pewskeepski »

Bennoman wrote:Sure you can put that into the story, just seems like its being added for the sake of being added. If you really want him to effectively two bodies why don't you just keep it through his power of necromancy so the justice minister is actually a high level undead under his control. That means he doesn't even have to come up with an excuse to leave the island in the first place.
Ok... but the minister of justice is alive. I suppose Evad is controlling him another way. I honestly don't get what you mean by "its being added for the sake of being added" :???:
Bennoman wrote:What i would suggest is simply it has a range of so much... say 10 miles. So that effectively he can create a fortress area immune to undead invasion. And you can then use the plot device of a ritual or similar to make it more powerful, and that then becomes a race against time for the main character to stop it becoming more powerful.
Sounds good to me.
Bennoman wrote:So in the sequeal campaign Evad has made his beach head on the shores of Wesnorth but due to the damage done to his army in the first campaign he cannot expand as much as he would like... Therefore through what ever way he decides to empower the Ankh, and the hero must stop this before he becomes too powerful.
I had decided to not make a sequel, it's just one campaign now. The third sun falls at about half way into the campaign, and all the scenarios after that are the player attempting to keep Evad from getting too powerful.
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Re: The Fall of Wesnoth (Storyline discussion)

Post by Bennoman »

Pewskeepski wrote: Ok... but the minister of justice is alive. I suppose Evad is controlling him another way. I honestly don't get what you mean by "its being added for the sake of being added" :???:
By that i literally just meant it seemed like it was being added for no real reason.

If you look at alot of what i've been saying I am a basically an advocate of never adding any more than you need to... There's an old adage when it comes to any story telling "kill you babies". In other words you will come up with lots of great ideas during the course of creating a story but most of the time these ideas will distract from the story or just make things unceasingly complicated.

So in the case Evad, he has powers of necromancy, which by its very definition is power of death. Therefore his powers and any magical plot devices involving him should use necromancy as the source of it, as opposed to lets say charm magic or earth magic. The reason for this is simply you then have to explain why a necromancer has magical powers of a different discipline.

Case and point is the dreadful, dreadful, awful, movie Alien Vs Predator. One of the most terrible mistakes the film made was placing the action in a previously undiscovered pyramid under the ice of the Antarctic. The film then proceeded to waste half an hour explaining why this pyramid was there in the first place. This precious film time could of been used to explore character archs, conflict, and themes.

So the moral of the story is, never watch alien vs predator. (though on a side note if you have watched it I would suggest you watch resident evil and notice how they are infact the same movie).
I had decided to not make a sequel, it's just one campaign now. The third sun falls at about half way into the campaign, and all the scenarios after that are the player attempting to keep Evad from getting too powerful.
If you insist of doing it as a single campaign then I cant stop you but really I would advise that you do it as two separate campaigns for reasons I've talked about lots but of course I will help. Just remember as two separate campaigns you have so much to explore in the setting of the island and uncovering Evad's plans there alone i just feel you would create a story that would run out of steam if you wanted to make an epic that long.

two separate campaigns can have radically different themes. Still have the same characters but in the down time between the campaigns
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Re: The Fall of Wesnoth (Storyline discussion)

Post by Pewskeepski »

Bennoman wrote:If you look at alot of what i've been saying I am a basically an advocate of never adding any more than you need to... There's an old adage when it comes to any story telling "kill you babies". In other words you will come up with lots of great ideas during the course of creating a story but most of the time these ideas will distract from the story or just make things unceasingly complicated.

So in the case Evad, he has powers of necromancy, which by its very definition is power of death. Therefore his powers and any magical plot devices involving him should use necromancy as the source of it, as opposed to lets say charm magic or earth magic. The reason for this is simply you then have to explain why a necromancer has magical powers of a different discipline.
It sounds like you think I'm going to go into detail about Evad's life, which I'm not. I'll let the player piece it together himself.
Bennoman wrote:Case and point is the dreadful, dreadful, awful, movie Alien Vs Predator. One of the most terrible mistakes the film made was placing the action in a previously undiscovered pyramid under the ice of the Antarctic. The film then proceeded to waste half an hour explaining why this pyramid was there in the first place. This precious film time could of been used to explore character archs, conflict, and themes.
Yeah, I'm not going to explain Evad's powers because there's suppose to be some mystery in him. The player has to find out who he is by, like I said, piecing the information together. I mentioned all that because it's a good idea for the story teller to now a whole lot more about the story he's telling than anybody else.
Bennoman wrote:So the moral of the story is, never watch alien vs predator. (though on a side note if you have watched it I would suggest you watch resident evil and notice how they are infact the same movie).
Never seen it. And now I don't think I will :)
Bennoman wrote:If you insist of doing it as a single campaign then I cant stop you but really I would advise that you do it as two separate campaigns for reasons I've talked about lots but of course I will help. Just remember as two separate campaigns you have so much to explore in the setting of the island and uncovering Evad's plans there alone i just feel you would create a story that would run out of steam if you wanted to make an epic that long.

two separate campaigns can have radically different themes. Still have the same characters but in the down time between the campaigns
As I said before, the fall isn't just about the third sun's failure, it's also about how Wesnoth could never be the same because humans were fighting over the unclaimed land and resources. Orcs crossing Wesnoth's borders (which aren't there anymore) and attempting to take the land for their own kind is something else that happens. And of course the undead raising lots of corpses and becoming major threats. A sequel might happen, but I'd like to focus on the task at hand.

Anyway here's the story so far:

Alitar's warden (Rovsitar) leaves the penal colony because the undead are getting too great in numbers. Alitar leads the exiles in a desperate objective of survival. They find a gryphon on the island and, thinking it could be their ticket off, they follow it to the gryphon's nest which is located on a mountain. While they are up there, Alitar finds an unexplored cave and the exiles enter it. They find signs of necromancy and are encountered by an ancient lich, who the believe to be the master of the island. It then becomes a suspenseful pursuit--Alitar's men are trying to train gryphons in hopes of flying out of the penal colony, but the evil lich (Evad) is attacking them much more vigorously. Fortunately, the exiles manage to succeed and head back to civilization via the gryphons.

A few talk scenarios will be placed between the action following the council meetings that lead up to raising a third sun. A small zipper-plot.

At this point, the player will be thinking "Ok, so the third sun is going to be raised, and I can bet my socks that lich under the penal colony is going to have something to do with the fall."
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Re: The Fall of Wesnoth (Storyline discussion)

Post by Bennoman »

Excellent man I am liking your story arc for the island and how they escape, plenty of room for all kinds of good storytelling, plot twists etc... I say go with what you got mapped out there!

Only point would be is that Evad would not be responsible for the fall of the sun, but he is complicit in his silence. Being an ancient, ancient lich he knows what is needed to raise a sun, hes seen it all before, and he's been waiting for his moment to seize power for all this time all he has to do is build his army and wait it out.

So here's how I suggest the campaign finishes. The hero finds out that the Lich knows the sun will fail, so not only does he have to escape the island but he has to make it back in time to warn the empire! What a cliff hanger that would be, setting off on gryphons to save the world. I say this because it taps into the most important thing of any story, which is the notion of death and rebirth. In every story ever told, every film, every book there is this moment, when the hero (or heroes) metaphorically (or in some cases literally) dies and is then reborn. So in this case, the hero has suffered and fought hes way across the island, rallied its peoples and faced the Lich only to find that its all in vain, the world will end... That is your moment of death, when all hope is lost, and the hero breaks, but then something happens, maybe a kind word from a friend or a moment of insight and in the face of it all he takes a stand forces the liches armies back and takes to the skies! The point is that it does not matter if he sucecceds or fails but he finds the power in himself to have the courage of his convictions.

Look up Joseph Campbell he wrote a book called hero with a 1000 faces he talks about this at length... very good book too.

Here's a perfect example of death and rebirth in storytelling, in fact the best example. Luke Skywalker is flying his x wing in the trench of the death star and he is alone, everyone else is dead or gone and Darth Vader is on his tail, about to utterly destroy him. For the viewer this is our hero's lowest point, this is his metaphorical death. Then out from no where, comes Han Solo blows Darth outta there and saves Luke, it is in this moment that Luke is free to take the shot, and in that moment he finds the faith in his own ability and power, he turns off the computer and uses the force.

No more Death Star and the most successful IP in history is born.
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Re: The Fall of Wesnoth (Storyline discussion)

Post by Pewskeepski »

Bennoman wrote:Excellent man I am liking your story arc for the island and how they escape, plenty of room for all kinds of good storytelling, plot twists etc... I say go with what you got mapped out there!
I'm really glad you like it :D
Bennoman wrote:Only point would be is that Evad would not be responsible for the fall of the sun, but he is complicit in his silence. Being an ancient, ancient lich he knows what is needed to raise a sun, hes seen it all before, and he's been waiting for his moment to seize power for all this time all he has to do is build his army and wait it out.
True. But I was thinking the minister of justice would be the one leading the army of undead that kills the mages and causes the sun to fall.
Bennoman wrote:So here's how I suggest the campaign finishes. The hero finds out that the Lich knows the sun will fail, so not only does he have to escape the island but he has to make it back in time to warn the empire! What a cliff hanger that would be, setting off on gryphons to save the world. I say this because it taps into the most important thing of any story, which is the notion of death and rebirth. In every story ever told, every film, every book there is this moment, when the hero (or heroes) metaphorically (or in some cases literally) dies and is then reborn. So in this case, the hero has suffered and fought hes way across the island, rallied its peoples and faced the Lich only to find that its all in vain, the world will end... That is your moment of death, when all hope is lost, and the hero breaks, but then something happens, maybe a kind word from a friend or a moment of insight and in the face of it all he takes a stand forces the liches armies back and takes to the skies! The point is that it does not matter if he sucecceds or fails but he finds the power in himself to have the courage of his convictions.
Awesome! Keep in mind though that Alitar has no way of knowing that Wesnoth is even raising another sun until the lich reveals it to him.

Here's an updated story (the old part is in the spoiler):
Spoiler:
They escape the mountain with the gryphon eggs and head back into the jungle where they'll have a better chance to live. Alitar decides to explore some holy temples on the island, (there are temples as seen in HttT) and find holy water inside which gives them a better chance at holding off the undead until the gryphons are fully trained and ready to fly. Towards the end, Alitar's men are confronted by the lich himself. It is here that they find out about the third sun being raised and it's foreseen failure. Shortly afterwards, the exiles fly off the island in a desperate attempt to stop the foretold doom!

Here's a thought; maybe the lich should reveal that the sun is going to fail when Alitar meets him in the cave?
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Re: The Fall of Wesnoth (Storyline discussion)

Post by Bennoman »

I think we are almost there!

However one last major thing i would insist on is that Evad has nothing to do with the fall. No killing of mages or anything. I would have it as he is waiting for this to happen, hes been waiting for 1000s of years for this to happen, and has no need to force his hand.

I say this for two reasons.

Firstly the inevitable is much more scary. The grandfather of modern horror HP Lovecraft knew this well. He often referred to the fact that the old ones would rise "when the stars are right". Nothing could stop that, it was just a matter of time, and his stories presented just a glimpse of the horror we would face when this would happen. Also think about big disaster movies. The disaster happens for one of two reasons, either we [censored] up and in our hubris we brought it about (The Day after tomorrow). Or we never saw it coming (Independence day, earthquake). If the fall happens because of the actions of one big evil dude it just doesn't seem as scary. It will just become a plot about another evil guy taking over the world.

Secondly if the sun fails just because the people who did it were incompetent, it really hammers home the theme of the fall... Which is it came about because Wesnoth has lost its way and become decadent. Its a vainglorious attempt to recapture the great moments of the past.

Apart from that I say the story is good as it stands (obviously with some tweeking!).

You mentioned how the protagonist would not know about the raising of the sun, but you can find ways around this... Firstly I would say its really a non issue raising a third sun would be such huge news even people in the darkest dungenous would hear about it. Its like first man on the moon big! 9/11 big, the ramifications of it will be felt across the world (if it fails or not). So iam sure it wouldst be hard to imagine that this news had leaked onto the island with the new inmates constantly coming in. Though you could always have it as the protagonist is a new arrival on the island so he brings the news with him... Hell why not make him a political prisoner? Someone who was sent there because of his violent objections to the raising of the third sun? After all the point of it is to remove night, and nature needs night as much as it does day... right?
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Pewskeepski
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Re: The Fall of Wesnoth (Storyline discussion)

Post by Pewskeepski »

Bennoman wrote:You mentioned how the protagonist would not know about the raising of the sun, but you can find ways around this... Firstly I would say its really a non issue raising a third sun would be such huge news even people in the darkest dungenous would hear about it. Its like first man on the moon big! 9/11 big, the ramifications of it will be felt across the world (if it fails or not). So iam sure it wouldst be hard to imagine that this news had leaked onto the island with the new inmates constantly coming in. Though you could always have it as the protagonist is a new arrival on the island so he brings the news with him... Hell why not make him a political prisoner? Someone who was sent there because of his violent objections to the raising of the third sun? After all the point of it is to remove night, and nature needs night as much as it does day... right?
Him being a political prisoner is much better because the player won't be wondering what Alitar has do with the fall ever. It was fine the way it was, but now it'll be even better because right from the beginning, the player will know that this story is about the fall. And that Alitar is a important character in the fall.
Bennoman wrote:However one last major thing i would insist on is that Evad has nothing to do with the fall. No killing of mages or anything. I would have it as he is waiting for this to happen, hes been waiting for 1000s of years for this to happen, and has no need to force his hand.
According to Under the Burning Suns:

"But a great evil befell them that day; their power failed and the mountain crashed down onto the humans capital..."

Of course, this doesn't necessarily mean undead minions, it could be something else--like a magical force. Yeah, maybe some black cloud of magic floating above them in a sign that evil is present. As the mages lift the rock, they feel the presence of an evil like no other. But still, they continue to raise the sun. And fail.

Or maybe the undead minions don't kill the mages but surround the capital in order to keep people from leaving. The reason for this is quite simple, Alitar told everybody that the sun will fail. Natually, because of his job before he was exiled, the political governments take nothing he says into consideration. But still Evad takes necessary precautions. I like this idea the best.
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Creator of Burning Souls, The Fall of Wesnoth (abandoned) and Adventures of Knighthood (now available on BfW 1.15!)
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