BMR+Trinity: Clarifying/Fixing the Story

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doofus-01
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BMR+Trinity: Clarifying/Fixing the Story

Post by doofus-01 »

This thread is to try to clear up story or plot holes in the Bad Moon Rising and Trinity campaigns. This whole thread is basically a spoiler, so if you haven't played those campaigns, and think you might want to some day, don't read any further.

I make no claims on being a writer, so the story may make less sense than I think it does. Let's try to fix that.
IoN (in another thread) wrote:(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline?
I love the idea of playing as Echidna, Nemesis, and Haldrad in separate but gradually intertwining storylines - I especially loved the moral twist of Nemesis becoming essentially the undisputedly "good" force for the campaign (at least until she's assimilated into the destroyer) after spending most of BMR fighting against the evil Primeval demons. I do wish that her characterization be made more clear, though: in BMR it's never really shown that the reason the Primevals believe extermination of other sentient races is necessary to stop the Kthon is mostly due to Ares; it's just kind of assumed they're unified against the forces of modern Wesnoth. Not until Athanta's short-lived defection did I even begin to consider that there was disagreement on that view among them. I suggest Nemesis be characterized earlier in BMR so that her ability to see other species' lives as having value doesn't come out of nowhere.
Nemesis could be characterized better in BMR III, though she shouldn't speak translatable text (aka English, for me) most of the time. Maybe it can all be done in the last scenario. [More to be done here]
Actually, a lot of things could be discussed earlier, either in BMR or earlier in Trinity itself, like the existence of Seth and the Phantoms, a more complete exploration of South-Sea mythology, etc. That whole thing seems to have come out of nowhere in the last few scenarios.
Yeah. It should probably stay outside of BMR, but show up sooner in Trinity. Earlier references to the South-Seas beliefs in the dialogs of Bresda and Ponce, then have Bresda explain some of it to Haldrad later on? [More to be done here]
EDIT: In Trinity 1.0.4, I have placed a story section right before the human and primeval/south-seas sides join. Hopefully it helps.
I don't believe the Primevals' behavior in BMR was adequately explained either. Why did they attack the elves? What was that whole "order" thing about when their whole goal, because of Ares, was simply to use the volcano to exterminate all other sentient life?
Athanta was responsible for Scarrion, the Primevalists (the human followers), and talk of "Order". She did not have enough true Primevals with her to go wake Ares so she was enlisting humans, and put Scarrion in charge of that. "Order" wasn't necessarily anything the Primevals believed in, but it was something to lead the humans with.
Scarrion was thwarted by the Ukians in Part II, but avoided being killed by hiding amongst them. He did not want Elves and Ukians living happily ever after next to each other, he wanted to get back to the cave in the north and try to complete his mission. So he and his followers kill some elves to frame the Ukians (elves wouldn't know the difference between Primevalist and Ukian) and send them back north. Because the Ukians are better fighters in the north, and have larger numbers, Scarrion uses them as much as he can.
There are also some other plot points that were rather. Why does Nemesis not wake any other Primevals?
She was trying to gain power for herself. That's why Hera was mad at her.
What happened to make Echidna scream, and why, after that, did she become sycophantic to Seth? How do Echidna and Seth both retain their personalities within the Destroyer, but Nemesis does not? Or was that last attack on Hera rather than fleeing the ship a final act of willpower by Nemesis?
Echidna and Seth (re)joined to become that "destroyer" thing. Would it make more sense for them to not retain personalities? Probably. But then it would be too confusing, I think. They retained clear personalities, while Nemesis did not, because Nemesis was more of a vessel or host or instrument, she wasn't really part of the "destroyer". When she attacks Hera instead of going after the people fleeing the ship, that is her will resurfacing. Or so Bresda would like to think, I didn't want to make it too concrete.
BfW 1.12 supported, but active development only for BfW 1.13/1.14: Bad Moon Rising | Trinity | Archaic Era |
| Abandoned: Tales of the Setting Sun
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IoN
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Re: BMR+Trinity: Clarifying/Fixing the Story

Post by IoN »

Thanks for the clarifications. The whole "political" situation with reference to the Primevals I think should be explored more in BMR because I didn't understand where most of it came from at all, though it's true that would be difficult because of their language.

But one thing I still don't understand at all is Scarrion. Until I just read your post, I had no idea that he was still alive at all after BMR 2. Did he become Raenna? Additionally, at what point did Belleros and gang become Kthon; I assumed it was after Carghanna lured him into the cave, but the Primevals seem to believe it was earlier.

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Re: BMR+Trinity: Clarifying/Fixing the Story

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IoN wrote:But one thing I still don't understand at all is Scarrion. Until I just read your post, I had no idea that he was still alive at all after BMR 2. Did he become Raenna?
He killed the scout that bumped into him, then traded clothes to look like a Ukian scout. I'm not sure how to make that clearer, maybe updating the scout/Scarrion portrait.
IoN wrote: Additionally, at what point did Belleros and gang become Kthon; I assumed it was after Carghanna lured him into the cave, but the Primevals seem to believe it was earlier.
Nemesis saw them accidentally giving Carghanna to the Khthon, so Primevals knew they were being influenced by Khthon. Thinking about it now, that temple needs some sort of signifier that it is Khthon-related, it just looks random right now. Maybe that will make things clear enough.

Thanks.
BfW 1.12 supported, but active development only for BfW 1.13/1.14: Bad Moon Rising | Trinity | Archaic Era |
| Abandoned: Tales of the Setting Sun
GitHub link for these projects

IoN
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Re: BMR+Trinity: Clarifying/Fixing the Story

Post by IoN »

But they weren't actually under the influence of Kthon, right? They simply blundered into the temple because the orcs didn't really know the first thing about it. After that, Carghanna's voice was the only and indirect influence until Belleros actually encountered her in the cave, at which point the Ukians were assimilated.

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Re: BMR+Trinity: Clarifying/Fixing the Story

Post by doofus-01 »

IoN wrote:But they weren't actually under the influence of Kthon, right? They simply blundered into the temple because the orcs didn't really know the first thing about it. After that, Carghanna's voice was the only and indirect influence until Belleros actually encountered her in the cave, at which point the Ukians were assimilated.
That is correct.
BfW 1.12 supported, but active development only for BfW 1.13/1.14: Bad Moon Rising | Trinity | Archaic Era |
| Abandoned: Tales of the Setting Sun
GitHub link for these projects

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