The Questions that Have no answers.... yet.

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The Questions that Have no answers.... yet.

Postby Stormerdave » December 10th, 2010, 8:35 am

Hello to all!

I've just noticed in my recent ponderings of wesnoth and the world it is in, that there is quite a few questions that aren't answered.


Here are a few i've thought of, mostly fromm looking in The History of Wesnoth and my own experience with some campaigns:


In the years before wesnoth, why do the Elves and Dwarves dislike each other so much? is this just a case of "my way of life is better then yours" or did something happen in the past to cause this rivalry?

Why did the Wesfolk flee their lands in the west? and who drove them out? where they always associated with the Lich Lords?

If there was a great power that drove the wesfolk out, will it try to invade Wesnoth too?

And Haldrics people inhabited the green isle from their origins in the west, why? and why did they seem to lose contact with their homelands? Were they on the same contient that the Wesfolk came from?

What does the whole world look like?

What is the royal line family tree?

Where is the orcs homeland? they weren't orginally from the great contient

When the elves gave Haldric the 4 quests, why didn't the dwarves try to do the same thing?

How did Haldric 1st die?

Is Kalenz still alive?

What happened to Great Chief Zorlan?


I know this is a fair few questions, and many probably have easy answers, but I think it would be great if at least a few of these that dont have answers were answered. it would help add more flesh to the world and make it seem more "real". but i understand that not all questions should be answered, as the world still needs to have some mystery in it :)

Post any answers you may have here. Who knows, maybe someone can make a campaign or write stories based on some of these?
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Re: The Questions that Have no answers.... yet.

Postby bigkahuna » December 10th, 2010, 1:19 pm

I'll answer the (few) questions I can :augh:

Stormerdave wrote:Where is the orcs homeland? they weren't orginally from the great contient

That's easy. Far west of the Green Isle.

Stormerdave wrote:What does the whole world look like?

A butterfly. No really, there is no possible way to know this.

Stormerdave wrote:How did Haldric 1st die?

See Legond of Wesmere:
Spoiler:


Stormerdave wrote:Is Kalenz still alive?

No-one has said he was dead yet :twisted: I know there is a campaign of him after the Fall, not sure of it's reliableness yet, though... I am fairly sure he is still alive scoping out the situation.
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Re: The Questions that Have no answers.... yet.

Postby Reepurr » December 10th, 2010, 4:18 pm

Stormerdave wrote:Why did the Wesfolk flee their lands in the west? and who drove them out? where they always associated with the Lich Lords?

The Lich Lords were their masters. Unfortunately, then the Prince of Southbay invaded the Wesfolk and...er...
The Wesfolk Leader (see TRoW) wrote:They pledged to visit all of the terrors of the hells upon the Isle. They built a great stone gate to the heart of the homeland of the orcs in the distant west! Now even we Wesfolk must flee or be slaves.


Stormerdave wrote:And Haldrics people inhabited the green isle from their origins in the west, why? and why did they seem to lose contact with their homelands? Were they on the same contient that the Wesfolk came from?

That's yours to decide, unless someone did a pre-TRoW campaign, which I doubt.

StormerDave wrote:What does the whole world look like?

Well, nobody's ever fallen off it yet...

WoV (esr and fabi's new drake campaign, which might end up canon drake stuff eventually) states that the drakes found out the world was round.

StormerDave wrote:What is the royal line family tree?

See the Play section, which has some stuff on who came after who, etc. (but only campaign-documented stuff).

StormerDave wrote:Where is the orcs homeland? they weren't orginally from the great contient

They came from...somewhere...to the west of the Green Isle. Then the Lich Lords made a big portal the orcs came though, and when humans went to the Great Continent from the Green Isle, orcs eventually followed.


StormerDave wrote:Is Kalenz still alive?

Nobody ever found his grave, so that's yours to decide.[/quote]

Sorry I couldn't help with any more.
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Re: The Questions that Have no answers.... yet.

Postby Mountain_King » December 10th, 2010, 5:48 pm

bigkahuna wrote:
Stormerdave wrote:Is Kalenz still alive?

No-one has said he was dead yet :twisted: I know there is a campaign of him after the Fall, not sure of it's reliableness yet, though... I am fairly sure he is still alive scoping out the situation.

I heard that! You're just jealous. :twisted:
@Stormerdave: I'm working on a "Kalenz campaign to end all Kalenz campaigns" that takes place sometime after UtBS. However, most of the details are still under wraps, as I'm not planning to release the campaign until I have several scenarios ready. If you're interested I have a development thread in scenario/campaign development under the name "Sages of Irdya".

As for Zorlan...wasn't he killed by Kalenz and Co. In Delfador's Memoirs?

If you're wondering what the world might look like, you may want to have a gander at this thread. elidell's working on a map of the whole great continent.


Four quests...the dwarves didn't try the same thing because it wasn't really their land.

As for the other questions...it looks like reepurr and kahuna took care of most of 'em.
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Re: The Questions that Have no answers.... yet.

Postby bigkahuna » December 10th, 2010, 6:09 pm

Mountain_King wrote:I heard that! You're just jealous.

Jealous?!? ME?!??! NEVER!!!

Mountain_King wrote:a "Kalenz campaign to end all Kalenz campaigns"

Suuuure... We'll see about that... (And there have only been two...)

Stormerdave wrote:In the years before wesnoth, why do the Elves and Dwarves dislike each other so much? is this just a case of "my way of life is better then yours" or did something happen in the past to cause this rivalry?


:hmm: I've always wondered this. In all the books, movies, games, etc that I have ever read/watched/played, elves hate dwarves and vice versa.
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Re: The Questions that Have no answers.... yet.

Postby johndh » December 10th, 2010, 8:20 pm

bigkahuna wrote: :hmm: I've always wondered this. In all the books, movies, games, etc that I have ever read/watched/played, elves hate dwarves and vice versa.

In most pre-Tolkien works, Dwarves and Elves were interchangeable. Considering the two races live in different areas (lush forests vs. rocky mountains) and mostly keep to themselves, you'd think they'd get along well in a "stay away from me and I'll stay away from you" sort of way.
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Re: The Questions that Have no answers.... yet.

Postby eliddell » December 10th, 2010, 10:06 pm

Stormerdave wrote:And Haldrics people inhabited the green isle from their origins in the west, why? and why did they seem to lose contact with their homelands? Were they on the same contient that the Wesfolk came from?

No one knows for certain, but if I were to speculate, I would guess that they were either driven out by the ancestors of the Wesfolk, or had an ideological difference with them over necromancy that caused them to leave of their own accord and look for somewhere else to live. Either way, I doubt they would have wanted to retain contact with the lands they formerly inhabited.

Mountain_King wrote:If you're wondering what the world might look like, you may want to have a gander at this thread. elidell's working on a map of the whole great continent.

Actually, I don't expect that I'll ever finish the entire continent--what I have now is around a quarter of it by my best estimate, and while it may manage to expand southward a bit, I don't expect to get much further east in the near future.

bigkahuna wrote: :hmm: I've always wondered this. In all the books, movies, games, etc that I have ever read/watched/played, elves hate dwarves and vice versa.

As johndh sort of said, Tolkien is to blame for a large part of this--his elves and dwarves had massive ideological differences during the First Age (in the books, Gimli and Legolas almost start a spat related to this when the Fellowship is discussing the history of Moria). Since Tolkien's work is one of the major influences on modern fantasy (along with Robert Howard's Conan the Barbarian and a number of minor players like Lord Dunsany), there is a lot of derivative material out there that just copies the meme without anyone thinking about it too much.
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Re: The Questions that Have no answers.... yet.

Postby bigkahuna » December 10th, 2010, 10:58 pm

eliddell wrote:As johndh sort of said, Tolkien is to blame for a large part of this--his elves and dwarves had massive ideological differences during the First Age

I love Tolkien :D I think the major ideological differences that you mentioned were mainly:

A. The mindset. The Elves' mindset revolved around nature, balance, happiness and laughter, and all that good stuff. The dwarves, on the other hand, were interested in gold, jewels, rare minerals, material things. The elves saw them as greedy midgets and they've been enemies ever since :lol2:
B. This mindset influences their worldview, which leads to differences in how they interpret everything: history, life, diplomacy, etc. I guess that would mess up relations between them pretty badly...
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Re: The Questions that Have no answers.... yet.

Postby A-Red » December 10th, 2010, 11:36 pm

eliddell wrote:As johndh sort of said, Tolkien is to blame for a large part of this--his elves and dwarves had massive ideological differences during the First Age (in the books, Gimli and Legolas almost start a spat related to this when the Fellowship is discussing the history of Moria). Since Tolkien's work is one of the major influences on modern fantasy (along with Robert Howard's Conan the Barbarian and a number of minor players like Lord Dunsany), there is a lot of derivative material out there that just copies the meme without anyone thinking about it too much.


It's not uncommon for groups of people to be in a state of tension with neighboring groups of people. It probably starts out as competition for resources or culture clash, and gets magnified and set in stone over time. There's a lot of reality that just copies the meme without anyone thinking about it too much.
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Re: The Questions that Have no answers.... yet.

Postby eliddell » December 10th, 2010, 11:46 pm

Now that I've bothered to look it up, I find I wasn't entirely accurate. Tolkien's dwarves split with his elves after said dwarves slew the elf-king Thingol, father of Luthien Tinuviel (who's mentioned briefly in LotR), because he had in his possession one of the Silmarils of Feanor, which the dwarves coveted for their own. After that, things seem to have gotten . . . messy. It's all laid out in The Silmarillion . . . but anyway, this is mostly irrelevant trivia.
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Re: The Questions that Have no answers.... yet.

Postby thespaceinvader » December 10th, 2010, 11:50 pm

but anyway, this is mostlyirrelevant trivia.


I fixed it for you. It's entirely irrelevant, because WINME.
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Re: The Questions that Have no answers.... yet.

Postby eliddell » December 11th, 2010, 12:10 am

I don't believe I ever claimed that it was. I was tracing the origin of a meme, not attempting to imply that the history of the two worlds was identical. I apologize if I didn't express that clearly enough.
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Re: The Questions that Have no answers.... yet.

Postby Hulavuta » December 12th, 2010, 4:00 am

Yeah, no offense, but most of those questions can be answered by playing the campaigns.

As for the world, I would assume it is round like ours, although theories on the multiple suns may contradict that.
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Re: The Questions that Have no answers.... yet.

Postby Stormerdave » December 12th, 2010, 7:25 am

I know i could find some of the answers by palying the campaigns, and i will eventually, but it was just some quick questions i thought of in my spare time.

oh and anyone is free to post their own questions :)

people can get ideas for campaigns and anything by just asking yourself and others questions, and then asking "What if?"


Oh one other question i've been thinking about if i should be asking or not....

What was the cause/s of The Fall?

And im just asking a few questions by sheer curiousity, not because im to lazy to play the campaigns. (not much time :| )
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Re: The Questions that Have no answers.... yet.

Postby Reepurr » December 12th, 2010, 9:14 am

Stormerdave wrote:What was the cause/s of The Fall?

UtBS yada yada wrote:Back then there was only one sun in the sky, the sun you call Sela. But the king decreed that he would raise a second sun into the heavens, to lengthen their days and shorten the darkness. All the mages, sorcerers and wise men came together and cast a mountain into the sky and made it glow as bright as the sun. They sent this second sun, who you call Naia, hurling through the sky so that there was only a few hours of dark each night. Though some had called the attempt foolish, it was a resounding success and stood as a tribute to the power and might of the humans. The golden age glowed brighter than ever and the many believed that they had dispelled evil and darkness forever.

But with their prosperity and power, over the generations the humans grew arrogant. One day a young descendant of the original king decreed that darkness should be abolished altogether from the land, so that light and goodness would shine forth everywhere. But the people had grown lazy and complacent and the ranks of mages who still trained hard to harness the magical arts had decreased greatly. Still the king believed he was all-powerful and would not listen to the mages’ protests. So, seeking to duplicate their ancestors’ previous success, the mages tried to lift a second mountain into the sky. But a great evil befell them that day; their power failed and the mountain crashed down onto the humans capital, crushing all within it. In an instant the center of the Empire of Wesnoth was utterly destroyed.

The king and his family were all killed, and soon petty warlords tore apart the empire as all the known lands fell into chaos. Elves and Dwarves were drawn into the conflicts, Orcs and Trolls spread forth from the dark places, and chaos and darkness swallowed the lands.

The two suns, a monument to the power and hubris of the fallen Empire of Wesnoth, scorched the earth. The fields dried up, forests died, and swamps turned into mud-cracked plains. Since then the path of the second sun has shifted in the sky, creating the long dark that you are so familiar with every other night. And much evil has spread forth across the lands. The mages of the Empire of Wesnoth still haunt their domains as the undead lords that plague your sands. The surviving humans have descended into barbarity and squalor. Orcs cover the lands killing each other and any that fall into their grasp. The dwarves and trolls hide in their tunnels, in the dark, fighting an endless war. I do not mean to offend your friend, but the majority of them care little for the fate of the surface dwellers. And without their forests the elves have mostly died out, another victim of the chaos and evil that dominates our lands.
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