Help making "The fellowhip of the Clay" canon compatible

For writers working on documentation, story prose, announcements, and all kinds of Wesnoth text.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

User avatar
Reval
Posts: 143
Joined: January 11th, 2009, 11:42 pm

Help making "The fellowhip of the Clay" canon compatible

Post by Reval » October 19th, 2010, 7:48 pm

I am writing a story that I quite like and which I try to keep compatible to the Wesnoth canon.
The campaign is described here: http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=31932

It should start around 65 YW, shortly after Haldric II died and the third human king of the great continent becomes king.
Though I guess the canon is not completly sacrosanct, I feel in now possition to claim that Wesnoth's chronicler where wrong just on the basis of my own expertise. ;-)
It would be great if you could give me your opiniun on my two issues.

It has to be that early, because it's theme is centered around humans first attempt to build a capital, called Wehlot.
So far, I have two medium sized problems with the canon:

The bigger: I need a Runemaster as one of the central characters. But "The Scepter of Fire"/"The Hammer of Thursagan" states that in 40 YW, all Runemasters died together with Thursagan.

First, I always found that completly unintuitve: "The Scepter of Fire" explicitly speaks of just one tribe of Dwarfs. Did the other tribes not have any Runemasters? In "The Scepter of Fire", it does NOT indicate, that the art of runesmithing is somehow bound to Thursagan hammer. Quite the opposite semes to be told. Thursagan is just one Runesmith who migth be the best in his art, bud who also seems to be a little mad. His king does not treat him as someone on whom the art of runesmithing completly depends.

That is why I would like to tell that there is a Runesmith left after the dead of Thursagan, but of course, than I have to explain why the art of Runesmithing got lost while there was a Runesmith left, who could have thought his art.

The smaler issue: The third human King, (I call him Ludwic but he also migth be called Eladric II) invites a delegation of Elves to the inauguration of Wehlot by sending an evoy to an elvish council, preferably to the Ka'lian.
But between 26 and 50 YW Landar dissolve the Ka'lian and only in 93 YW Kalenz cedes control to a reconstituted Ka'lian.

Any comments on these two historical discrepancies?
The Wesnoth Unit Quiz by Flametrooper:
You Scored as Arch Mage - Arrg, just Arch?!?

The Fellowship of the Clay

AI
Developer
Posts: 2394
Joined: January 31st, 2008, 8:38 pm

Re: Help making "The fellowhip of the Clay" canon compatible

Post by AI » October 19th, 2010, 8:30 pm

I'm fairly sure that after 65 years, they already have a capital.

Is there any reason you can't make your campaign happen earlier?

User avatar
Reval
Posts: 143
Joined: January 11th, 2009, 11:42 pm

Re: Help making "The fellowhip of the Clay" canon compatible

Post by Reval » October 19th, 2010, 9:17 pm

The canon never mentions Weldyn until that time. What they have is a biggest city, namely Dan Tok.
Capital as the place where regnancy resides can be something quite different, since it primarely has to be something, that is a good fortification. So what I mean with "capital" is castle where the king resids.

I would like to make it as early as possible. Before 0 YW doesnt make sense here. :-)
Also, Alduin has exist, which is founded in 21 YW.
For the story, there has to be one king before the actual king.
So Haldric is discarded.
Haldric II (ascends to the throne in 20 YW) already appears in "The Scepter of Fire" and the main reason for me not to tell the story with him as the actual king, but with his son, was, that I thought he did already some other things.
So I came up with the third king, which has to start his regency after 40 YW where Haldric II is still the King. Also, in 40 YW, when he recieves the message that the scepter is lost, he does not reside in Wehlot.

So letting the story taking place during Haldric II time instead of during his sons time, would indeed solce both of my problems, but than I had to "squeeze" all the events in Haldric II live...

Hm, at least an option I didn't see before...
The Wesnoth Unit Quiz by Flametrooper:
You Scored as Arch Mage - Arrg, just Arch?!?

The Fellowship of the Clay

monochromatic
Posts: 1548
Joined: June 18th, 2009, 1:45 am

Re: Help making "The fellowhip of the Clay" canon compatible

Post by monochromatic » October 19th, 2010, 10:21 pm

I didn't read everything carefully, but why not set it to around this time?
By then runesmithing had been revived (THoT), and you could make it that a group of humans left Wesnoth because of the destruction done to them by Mal Ravanal, and move east to find a new land and new kingdom. Again, I did not read everything, but I do believe you could make it work without changing too much.

User avatar
johndh
Posts: 591
Joined: June 6th, 2010, 4:03 am
Location: Music City

Re: Help making "The fellowhip of the Clay" canon compatible

Post by johndh » October 20th, 2010, 3:10 am

<speculation>
I don't think that all the rune smiths literally died when Thursagan's hammer was lost. TSoF is somewhat of a psuedo-historical campaign in my understanding, and it seems more likely to me that the craft slowly died out around the time that the greatest of the rune masters, Thursagan, died. Thus, the art of rune crafting dying out with Thursagan could easily be remembered/interpreted as all of the rune smiths literally dropping dead. If that's the case, then having a rune smith in a work set shortly after that time would be fine.
</speculation>
It's spelled "definitely", not "definately". "Defiantly" is a different word entirely.

User avatar
Reval
Posts: 143
Joined: January 11th, 2009, 11:42 pm

Re: Help making "The fellowhip of the Clay" canon compatible

Post by Reval » October 20th, 2010, 8:56 am

Your interpretation sounds absolutely reasonable to me. ;-)
Still, one proabably has to say something about how and why such an obviously usefull art as runecrafting could slowely die out. Well, the real world example of the Damascus steel at least shows that some knowledge couldget lost even if it would still be considered up to date.
Maybe runecrafting fell into disgrace due to the Thursagan story?

Anyway, moving the story one generation forth in history (making it take place during the time of Haldric II instead of his son) would also allow me to reuse the Ka'lian in the configuration of Dionli, Logalmier, Aryad, and El'Isomithir.
The Wesnoth Unit Quiz by Flametrooper:
You Scored as Arch Mage - Arrg, just Arch?!?

The Fellowship of the Clay

User avatar
sur.nhm
Posts: 630
Joined: September 4th, 2008, 12:10 pm
Location: in /dev/null...

Re: Help making "The fellowhip of the Clay" canon compatible

Post by sur.nhm » October 20th, 2010, 12:34 pm

Reval wrote:Your interpretation sounds absolutely reasonable to me. ;-)
Still, one proabably has to say something about how and why such an obviously usefull art as runecrafting could slowely die out. Well, the real world example of the Damascus steel at least shows that some knowledge couldget lost even if it would still be considered up to date.
Maybe runecrafting fell into disgrace due to the Thursagan story?

Anyway, moving the story one generation forth in history (making it take place during the time of Haldric II instead of his son) would also allow me to reuse the Ka'lian in the configuration of Dionli, Logalmier, Aryad, and El'Isomithir.
The Wiki wrote:50-93 YW
Elvish civil war (and The Legend of Wesmere) ends. Kalenz declared High Lord, begins reorganizing and militarizing Elvish society to fight the orcs. In late 93 YW he cedes control to a reconstituted Ka'lian and retires again to the Forest of Lintanir.

What this means is that the ruler of the elves is High Lord Kalenz, and the Ka'lian hasn't any power, AFAICT.
I'm not really around any more, but you can find me in TvTropes.

User avatar
Toanphuc
Posts: 2
Joined: December 17th, 2010, 2:54 am

Re: Help making "The fellowhip of the Clay" canon compatible

Post by Toanphuc » December 26th, 2010, 1:42 pm

May be you can make a theory that after Thursagan died that not ALL runemaster died with him but there is one exception who could miracle survive after 40 YW, or some of the Runemaster's technique and art write in some kind of scroll been found after that by other race like a human smith.

User avatar
Reval
Posts: 143
Joined: January 11th, 2009, 11:42 pm

Re: Help making "The fellowhip of the Clay" canon compatible

Post by Reval » December 26th, 2010, 6:39 pm

Toanphuc wrote:May be you can make a theory that after Thursagan died that not ALL runemaster died with him but there is one exception who could miracle survive after 40 YW, or some of the Runemaster's technique and art write in some kind of scroll been found after that by other race like a human smith.
We pushed our story forward so that it now starts at 24YW. This is shortly before THoT [EDIT: I mean SOF] startet which thus has the disadvantage of requiring the story to take place in a realtively short time span but it avoids all the other problems.
Besides, I agree to johndh, that one probably shouldn't take THoT to literal.
Spoiler:
Last edited by Reval on December 26th, 2010, 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Wesnoth Unit Quiz by Flametrooper:
You Scored as Arch Mage - Arrg, just Arch?!?

The Fellowship of the Clay

User avatar
bigkahuna
Posts: 657
Joined: September 11th, 2010, 6:24 pm
Location: In your mind.

Re: Help making "The fellowhip of the Clay" canon compatible

Post by bigkahuna » December 26th, 2010, 7:03 pm

Reval wrote:Though I guess the canon is not completly sacrosanct, I feel in now possition to claim that Wesnoth's chronicler where wrong just on the basis of my own expertise
:lol2: I detect a bit of arrogance there... And the definition of "canon" is basically "sacrosanct". Canon in Wesnoth CAN be manipulated a bit for our own purposes, but it is better to either expand on what is already there, create something new not already covered, or fill in the blanks.

About Feyndwarf -
Spoiler:
Check out my campaign Sweet Revenge!
Join the new R2D forum!

User avatar
Reval
Posts: 143
Joined: January 11th, 2009, 11:42 pm

Re: Help making "The fellowhip of the Clay" canon compatible

Post by Reval » December 26th, 2010, 7:22 pm

bigkahuna wrote:
Reval wrote:Though I guess the canon is not completly sacrosanct, I feel in now possition to claim that Wesnoth's chronicler where wrong just on the basis of my own expertise
:lol2: I detect a bit of arrogance there... And the definition of "canon" is basically "sacrosanct". Canon in Wesnoth CAN be manipulated a bit for our own purposes, but it is better to either expand on what is already there, create something new not already covered, or fill in the blanks.
As said, the current version has at least no canan conflict that I know of as long as it is plausible that the stroy finishes bofore other Wesnoth things are told to have happened.

About Runesmithes and Feyndwarf:
First, there might also be a small number of others. Second: Runesmithes always have a very ambivalent position in the dwarfish society since, as people doing thier stuff privily - they are most often a little outsiders. Third, who says that the art of runesmithing dies in it's zenith - it migth have slowly declined for some time. Fourth:
Feyndwarf is indeed very smart and very very skilled with runes such that his abilities are key to what happens in the campaign. He is just a very special Dwarf who has his own understanding of many things and doesn't like to be disturbed that much. Still, I can say it is my own favorite character of my own campaign. :-)
Spoiler:
I hope I have pacified our most important critic. :lol2:
The Wesnoth Unit Quiz by Flametrooper:
You Scored as Arch Mage - Arrg, just Arch?!?

The Fellowship of the Clay

User avatar
pauxlo
Posts: 1024
Joined: September 19th, 2006, 8:54 pm

Re: Help making "The fellowhip of the Clay" canon compatible

Post by pauxlo » December 26th, 2010, 7:36 pm

"Canon" is not what is listed in the wiki entry, but what is covered by the mainline campaigns. The wiki page is only a summary of this, in some parts extended by some speculation (and information from some UMC).

User avatar
bigkahuna
Posts: 657
Joined: September 11th, 2010, 6:24 pm
Location: In your mind.

Re: Help making "The fellowhip of the Clay" canon compatible

Post by bigkahuna » December 26th, 2010, 7:46 pm

pauxlo wrote:"Canon" is not what is listed in the wiki entry, but what is covered by the mainline campaigns. The wiki page is only a summary of this
Exactly. I didn't see anyone quote otherwise. However, everything in the wiki is technically considered (more or less) canon. Invasion from the Unknown is considered, in most circles, canon. Basically, if the devs believe it then its history (and the devs [specifically Shadowmaster] created and support IftU) :lol2:
Reval wrote:I hope I have pacified our most important critic.
Wow, I feel honored to be that important :lol2: I wasn't really contradicting you, I was just throwing an idea out. About the canon interference, I didn't really see any except for the ones mentioned. If you fixed them: great, my suggestions were simply that; suggestions to be used later.
Check out my campaign Sweet Revenge!
Join the new R2D forum!

User avatar
A-Red
Art Contributor
Posts: 495
Joined: May 6th, 2009, 1:21 am

Re: Help making "The fellowhip of the Clay" canon compatible

Post by A-Red » December 29th, 2010, 9:05 pm

One possible reason why runecraft was dying out: it was being replaced by other technologies like gunpowder.

User avatar
bigkahuna
Posts: 657
Joined: September 11th, 2010, 6:24 pm
Location: In your mind.

Re: Help making "The fellowhip of the Clay" canon compatible

Post by bigkahuna » December 29th, 2010, 9:34 pm

A-Red wrote:One possible reason why runecraft was dying out: it was being replaced by other technologies like gunpowder.
Gunpowder remains a secret hidden by the dwarves and perceived as magic by the other races (thundersticks, see thunderer descriptions) until [NOTE: This is not canon, but shadowmaster stuff as in IftU] an undefined period after the Fall (see Future History in the wiki) called the Thunderstone Era. Basically 1000+ years after the time of this campaign.
Check out my campaign Sweet Revenge!
Join the new R2D forum!

Post Reply