Lore Collection Project

For writers working on documentation, story prose, announcements, and all kinds of Wesnoth text.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Post Reply
User avatar
thespaceinvader
Retired Art Director
Posts: 8414
Joined: August 25th, 2007, 10:12 am
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

Re: Lore Collection Project

Post by thespaceinvader » September 15th, 2009, 5:38 am

Once more: assume nothing. If the only facts about the forge are that is it in an abandoned dwarven mine, heated by lava, and krahkrahs the dragon calls it a 'pretty stone'; then that is ALL you write in the lore collection. It's the only purpose of this project - to collect the lore, and report it in a simplified format which is easily accessible. ALL the rest is speculation - it might be justified, but it is still speculation.

Speculation and development will come LATER.
http://thespaceinvader.co.uk | http://thespaceinvader.deviantart.com
Back to work. Current projects: Catching up on commits. Picking Meridia back up. Sprite animations, many and varied.

User avatar
melinath
Posts: 1298
Joined: May 20th, 2009, 7:42 am

Re: Lore Collection Project

Post by melinath » September 18th, 2009, 2:39 am

Hey, Skrim: I finally am getting the chance to look at your latest draft of the dwarf lore extraction. It looks a lot better! A few things could perhaps be reconsidered:

1. Classical weaknesses: No inherent or directly manifesting magical abilities.
This is a little unclear. For example: runesmiths can use magic, but (AFAIK) it isn't ever stated whether anyone can use runes or whether there are only some dwarves who have the ability to do so. If they did need some sort of innate ability to use runes, then your statement would be incorrect. Perhaps try to be descriptive rather than prescriptive: "The only known way that dwarves can use magic is through runes." or something.

2. Dwarven Implements: Materials used: Stone
Why is this italicized? If it's a comment, perhaps elucidate a bit more so there can be no mistake. "It seems likely that they would also use stone".

3. Dwarvish Runemaster:
The source of these lightning bolts is not confirmed,: Should be italicized if you're italicizing comments.
Also, the citation is missing on the Runemaster's civilian role.

4. Gryphon Riders
Sorry, but this section still needs some work.
Gryphons are large, intelligent, and apparently sentient birds of prey(2).
Neither gryphon rider desc says the gryphons are large, intelligent, or sentient. Largeness could be deduced somewhat from the sprite and portrait, though.
Their high mobility is their main asset in combat, enabling them to strike suddenly from long distances(2) using their claws.
Using their claws is superfluous and should be removed.
The Dwarves are the only race known to tame and ride Gryphons, though only a few of them are able to bond with the Gryphons(1). The history, origin, and methods of this art of taming and riding Gryphons are unknown.
To make the relationship between stated and deduced fact clearer, consider moving "The Dwarves are the only race known to tame and ride Gryphons" to after the citation.

Also, you slipped and said the Dwarf/Gryphon bond is based on some sort of talent in the Known History section.

EDIT:: Changed Drakes to Dwarves. :-p
Last edited by melinath on September 18th, 2009, 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
The1exile
Posts: 152
Joined: December 6th, 2008, 12:17 pm

Re: Lore Collection Project

Post by The1exile » September 18th, 2009, 3:44 am

melinath wrote:To make the relationship between stated and deduced fact clearer, consider moving "The Drakes are the only race known to tame and ride Gryphons" to after the citation.
They are? :P
Rubies for passion, rubies for revenge.

User avatar
Skrim
Posts: 312
Joined: June 10th, 2009, 7:19 am

Re: Lore Collection Project

Post by Skrim » September 18th, 2009, 9:55 am

melinath wrote:Hey, Skrim: I finally am getting the chance to look at your latest draft of the dwarf lore extraction. It looks a lot better! A few things could perhaps be reconsidered:

1. Classical weaknesses: No inherent or directly manifesting magical abilities.
This is a little unclear. For example: runesmiths can use magic, but (AFAIK) it isn't ever stated whether anyone can use runes or whether there are only some dwarves who have the ability to do so. If they did need some sort of innate ability to use runes, then your statement would be incorrect. Perhaps try to be descriptive rather than prescriptive: "The only known way that dwarves can use magic is through runes." or something.

2. Dwarven Implements: Materials used: Stone
Why is this italicized? If it's a comment, perhaps elucidate a bit more so there can be no mistake. "It seems likely that they would also use stone".

3. Dwarvish Runemaster:
The source of these lightning bolts is not confirmed,: Should be italicized if you're italicizing comments.
Also, the citation is missing on the Runemaster's civilian role.

4. Gryphon Riders
Sorry, but this section still needs some work.
Gryphons are large, intelligent, and apparently sentient birds of prey(2).
Neither gryphon rider desc says the gryphons are large, intelligent, or sentient. Largeness could be deduced somewhat from the sprite and portrait, though.
Their high mobility is their main asset in combat, enabling them to strike suddenly from long distances(2) using their claws.
Using their claws is superfluous and should be removed.
The Dwarves are the only race known to tame and ride Gryphons, though only a few of them are able to bond with the Gryphons(1). The history, origin, and methods of this art of taming and riding Gryphons are unknown.
To make the relationship between stated and deduced fact clearer, consider moving "The Drakes are the only race known to tame and ride Gryphons" to after the citation.

Also, you slipped and said the Dwarf/Gryphon bond is based on some sort of talent in the Known History section.

Ahh, glad you brought up this whole thing again. I had nearly forgotten about it as I've had exams for the past couple of weeks and spent any free time I got either on the forums or playing campaigns in 1.7. But now I have a relatively free week and will do both the final bits of the Dwarvish and the Elvish analysis now.

That draft of the Dwarvish descriptions is definitely not final, in hindsight, since the Scout line has spread to all the Dwarvish campaigns and therefore counts as a very common unit which also needs a History section. The 'zerker History also needs revising because I forgot about NR entirely and need to mention that the 'zerks are actually fairly common in certain tribes(like the Shinsplitters, Olurf's clan and the Surghans), but absent in others(like the Knalgans).


The mention of Stone is italicized because it's never actually confirmed anywhere that they use it. Their hammers look as if they've been made of stone, but it isn't said anywhere.

User avatar
StDrake
Posts: 996
Joined: July 21st, 2009, 6:50 am

Re: Lore Collection Project

Post by StDrake » September 18th, 2009, 11:19 am

actually the intelligence and sentience of the gryphons can be deducted from SoF and Krrawg which can even speak

the unknown origins of gryphon taming might also be doubted since we see them start that during HttT when Konrad arrives in some dwarves' cave and an elf brings a young griffon with and the dwarves start trying to rear it
Like cats? I've made a whole faction of them to kick ass with!
Don't like cats? I've made a whole faction of them to kick their asses! So everyone's happy :)
Felinian faction is part of the Beyond Southern Hells era
kitties need sprites! art topic here

User avatar
Skrim
Posts: 312
Joined: June 10th, 2009, 7:19 am

Re: Lore Collection Project

Post by Skrim » September 18th, 2009, 12:56 pm

StDrake wrote:actually the intelligence and sentience of the gryphons can be deducted from SoF and Krrawg which can even speak

the unknown origins of gryphon taming might also be doubted since we see them start that during HttT when Konrad arrives in some dwarves' cave and an elf brings a young griffon with and the dwarves start trying to rear it
Yes, but I can't use stuff from SoF apart from listing unit appearances in the Known History sections.

Gryphon riding was not invented by Konrad. SoF features Gryphon Riders, and takes place hundreds of years before HttT; in fact, I think SoF is the earliest known appearance of Gryphon Riders in the presently-existing mainline canon.
_________________________________________________________________________________


Anyway, here's a new update of the Dwarvish lore. Hopefully it should be more clear and accurate than the previous.

If I were to include the actual Gryphon unit's description, then I would be able to say that they are intelligent beings. I'm actually not sure where the Gryph desc. would go - it's not a Dwarvish unit, so it probably doesn't belong here, but it isn't counted under the Monsters section either.
Attachments
Analysis of Dwarvish Unit Descriptions.pdf
(35.77 KiB) Downloaded 438 times

User avatar
melinath
Posts: 1298
Joined: May 20th, 2009, 7:42 am

Re: Lore Collection Project

Post by melinath » September 18th, 2009, 1:26 pm

You could include the gryphon desc if you wanted, I think. Technically it probably should be included in general monsters, but as long as it gets done in someone's unit lore extraction, it doesn't really matter.

Also, you included a bit of the dwarf race desc at one point - are you planning to completely extract lore from it?

User avatar
Deusite
Translator
Posts: 110
Joined: May 31st, 2009, 1:38 am
Location: Oxford

Re: Lore Collection Project

Post by Deusite » September 20th, 2009, 12:50 pm

First draft of EI.
EI.pdf
(412.5 KiB) Downloaded 1075 times
AKA Marz
Two profiles are better than one
Latin Translator

User avatar
The1exile
Posts: 152
Joined: December 6th, 2008, 12:17 pm

Re: Lore Collection Project

Post by The1exile » September 20th, 2009, 6:03 pm

Looks good so far, but you start off by saying it can be found on the DiD campaign dialogue page :P
Rubies for passion, rubies for revenge.

User avatar
melinath
Posts: 1298
Joined: May 20th, 2009, 7:42 am

Re: Lore Collection Project

Post by melinath » December 20th, 2009, 10:08 am

Happy winter break, for those of you who are getting one. I plan to go over all potential contributions to this project between now and February and give detailed feedback.

This is fair warning. 8)

User avatar
Deusite
Translator
Posts: 110
Joined: May 31st, 2009, 1:38 am
Location: Oxford

Re: Lore Collection Project

Post by Deusite » December 20th, 2009, 10:41 pm

I've waited a long time to hear that :]...

Annoyingly my hard drive annihilated itself, and I can't find a way to convert the pdfs without paying munnies. Could you upload them for me? Even better LBD appears to have fallen off the internet as of four months ago.
AKA Marz
Two profiles are better than one
Latin Translator

User avatar
melinath
Posts: 1298
Joined: May 20th, 2009, 7:42 am

Re: Lore Collection Project

Post by melinath » December 20th, 2009, 11:39 pm

[quote="Deusite"Annoyingly my hard drive annihilated itself, and I can't find a way to convert the pdfs without paying munnies. Could you upload them for me? Even better LBD appears to have fallen off the internet as of four months ago.[/quote]

I'm confused... what would you like me to do? I'm not sure I downloaded copies of all the pdfs posted here, so I may not be able to repost them... or do you want me to convert files to pdfs? You really don't need me for that - just download openoffice. :-)

Post Reply