Looking for criticism on Fall of Wesnoth story and dialog.

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The Great Rings
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Looking for criticism on Fall of Wesnoth story and dialog.

Post by The Great Rings » July 16th, 2009, 1:34 am

As some of you might know, I've been writing the story and dialog for the Add-on campaign "Fall of Wesnoth." I don't know if this is the appropriate forum, but as this thread deals purely with writing issue, I posted it here instead of in the Scenarios and Campaigns forum. If this is the wrong place for such a topic, please move or lock.

Anyway, as this is the first Wesnoth campaign I've really worked on, I'm looking for comments or criticisms from people who've played it. I still have about 10-20 scenarios to go, so if I'm doing something wrong or could improve in any way, I'd like to know now. :)
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melinath
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Re: Looking for criticism on Fall of Wesnoth story and dialog.

Post by melinath » July 17th, 2009, 6:40 pm

The Great Rings wrote:If this is the wrong place for such a topic, please move or lock.
This is exactly the right place for this topic!
The Great Rings wrote:Anyway, as this is the first Wesnoth campaign I've really worked on, I'm looking for comments or criticisms from people who've played it. I still have about 10-20 scenarios to go, so if I'm doing something wrong or could improve in any way, I'd like to know now. :)
... but I can't help you if that's your offer. I don't have time to play a campaign just to critique the dialogue... :-( Luckily, dialogue and actual playing are mostly unrelated. Could you make a page for your dialogue and story text on the wiki? CampaignDialogue:TROW

Also, are you aiming for the campaign to be mainline? Of course this is a very bold goal that may not come to fruition. However, if it is your goal, it would change the way I would critique.
A UMC campaign that was just for fun I would critique in terms of general writing.
A campaign that was aiming to adhere to the as-yet nebulous Wesnoth Writing Standard I would critique with an eye toward trying to define what exactly that standard is.

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Re: Looking for criticism on Fall of Wesnoth story and dialog.

Post by The Great Rings » July 17th, 2009, 6:55 pm

melinath wrote: Also, are you aiming for the campaign to be mainline? Of course this is a very bold goal that may not come to fruition. However, if it is your goal, it would change the way I would critique.
A UMC campaign that was just for fun I would critique in terms of general writing.
A campaign that was aiming to adhere to the as-yet nebulous Wesnoth Writing Standard I would critique with an eye toward trying to define what exactly that standard is.
You'd have to ask Huston about weather he plans to get it mainlined.

However, I am working on that assumption, regardless.
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Re: Looking for criticism on Fall of Wesnoth story and dialog.

Post by Huston » August 13th, 2009, 3:31 pm

melinath wrote:Also, are you aiming for the campaign to be mainline?
Even though it is difficult to get stuff mainlined, I hope that one day it might be mainlined.
melinath wrote:... but I can't help you if that's your offer. I don't have time to play a campaign just to critique the dialogue... :-( Luckily, dialogue and actual playing are mostly unrelated. Could you make a page for your dialogue and story text on the wiki?
Ta-da!
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Re: Looking for criticism on Fall of Wesnoth story and dialog.

Post by melinath » August 13th, 2009, 5:31 pm

Thanks, Huston. I'll try to read it when I get a chance. Do you think you could move it to UMCDialogue:TFoW or UserMadeCampaignDialogue:TFoW to reduce confusion?

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Re: Looking for criticism on Fall of Wesnoth story and dialog.

Post by Huston » August 13th, 2009, 5:42 pm

ok. i moved it. couldn't delete the original page completely so just put a redirect on it.

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Re: Looking for criticism on Fall of Wesnoth story and dialog.

Post by The Great Rings » August 13th, 2009, 6:20 pm

Huston wrote:
melinath wrote:Also, are you aiming for the campaign to be mainline?
Even though it is difficult to get stuff mainlined, I hope that one day it might be mainlined.
melinath wrote:... but I can't help you if that's your offer. I don't have time to play a campaign just to critique the dialogue... :-( Luckily, dialogue and actual playing are mostly unrelated. Could you make a page for your dialogue and story text on the wiki?
Ta-da!
Hey, thanks for putting the dialog up. I kept meaning to get around to that, but I guess its a moot point now.
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Re: Looking for criticism on Fall of Wesnoth story and dialog.

Post by Cloud » August 14th, 2009, 11:29 am

Found one error in reading through.

Scenario 3:
Prince Murdoch: Gwadoc, I want you to gather a force of men and cross the river tonight. I will attack the orcs from the south in two days' time. Make sure you are their.

Should be there.

As with Scenario 4:
Scout: Halt! Who goes their?
Whichever unit moves on the village: Sir, their are villagers still here who resist the orcs.

(I'll keep adding to this list until someone posts)

Scenario 3:
Cavalryman: Forgive me my lord, but it is worse than you think, for the second army I speak of is an army of the undead. From what I could dicern it was led by a lich the orcs were refering to as Mal Yryrcyn.

Correct spelling is discern
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Re: Looking for criticism on Fall of Wesnoth story and dialog.

Post by The1exile » August 14th, 2009, 4:44 pm

A few more to add to the previous post:
Gwadoc: I am honored, my lord. And yet... I wonder if it was for nought, in the end.
"nought" --> "naught" in this case.
Prince Murdoch: Indeed I am aware of what you speak. You ask where are the King's men, and I tell you that we have no mend to send. My father has convened a council of the lords of Wesnoth in hopes of reaching some solution. Until then, I would not have despair spread among the ranks.
I suggest a complete rephrase to "Indeed, I am aware of what you speak. You ask where are the King's men, and I tell you that we have no men to send. My father has convened a council of the lords of Wesnoth in hopes of finding a solution. Until then, I will not have despair spread among the ranks."

The last bit ("will not" rather than "would not") may sound a bit authoritarian - if you want a softer line, try something like "I do not wish to see despair..."
Prince Murdoch: No matter. Tomorrow, you shall accompany me to the Forts at Abez.You shall become one of my personal guards and an adviser to me. I need brave men who will speak their mind.
I'd have to check the authorities to be sure but I think "adviser" should be "advisor".
Cavalryman: The bad news is that there is a second army moving to join the orcish hord...
"hord" --> "horde". Also "orcish" --> "Orcish", I believe.
Cavalryman: We are on the north side of the river, a dozen miles downstream from Abez. The main orcish army is further to the East of us
East should not be capitalised here.
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Huston
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Re: Looking for criticism on Fall of Wesnoth story and dialog.

Post by Huston » August 14th, 2009, 4:54 pm

thanks for catching that stuff cloud. i fixed it and added a new scenario.
scenario 5's dialog is up also

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Re: Looking for criticism on Fall of Wesnoth story and dialog.

Post by Pentarctagon » August 14th, 2009, 11:46 pm

TFoW wrote:Please Note: It is reccomended that you play the Campaign Rebellion During the Dark Age before playing this.
recommended only has 1 'c' and 2 'm's. also, shouldn't Campaign have a lower case 'c'?
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Re: Looking for criticism on Fall of Wesnoth story and dialog.

Post by The1exile » August 15th, 2009, 1:31 am

Scenario 5:
The Pathfinder who stopped us at the signpost said the orcs are on the move. And led us as quickly as possible to Lord Glamaithsol. Only problem was, we found more than just dwarves there...
I suggest a rewrite to "The pathfinder who stopped us at the signpost led us as quickly as possible to Lord Glamaithsol, telling us that the orcs were on the move. On our arrival, however, we found more than just dwarves..."

"attcking" --> "attacking"
Gwadoc: No. Without her we will not be able to train any magi.
Consider adding exclamation marks instead of full stops.

Victory dialogue is pretty good except for the errant capital H ("Have") and "route" should be "rout".
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Re: Looking for criticism on Fall of Wesnoth story and dialog.

Post by Gauteamus » August 15th, 2009, 9:18 am

And so it begins: wrote: Between 673 and 955 YW, the Kingdom was wracked by famine and civil wars...
Here I think the exact pinning of the time interval of strife seems abit immersion breaking. Would it be possible to rewrite it to something like:
For a period of close to three centuries, the Kingdom was wracked by famine and civil wars. This period later became known as the "Night of Three Hundred Years". In the years to come, merely talking about the Night could make hardened warriors cry bitter tears of shame and despair.

Then later:
In the year 975 the Night came to an end, when [...]

Ok, I got abit carried away, and what I have is not well written, but I feel the mention of exact years in this context sounds abit like "Look at me, I have a timeline on a Wiki, and can justify my storyline by yeardropping" :-) I know quite alot of people quite fond of yeardropping IRL (myself included), so the effect may be an intended one, but maybe leaving the dates out would make the storyteller seem more "secure".

EDIT: Also, please leave the YW precision out of the year marks? Whoever refers to the end of the 30years war as 1648 AD?? We all know the context.
EDIT2: Of course in a time of strife and many strong civilizations with different historical landmarks clashing (Northern Alliance, remnants of Wesnoth etc.) it may make more sense to include "YW" than it currently does for us. How do the Orcs calibrate their calendar?

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Re: Looking for criticism on Fall of Wesnoth story and dialog.

Post by Huston » August 15th, 2009, 3:00 pm

cool. thanks guys i'll be sure to change this stuff with the next bugfix(sometime monday).

i appreciate all the help.

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Re: Looking for criticism on Fall of Wesnoth story and dialog.

Post by The Great Rings » August 17th, 2009, 1:44 am

Gauteamus wrote:
And so it begins: wrote: Between 673 and 955 YW, the Kingdom was wracked by famine and civil wars...
Here I think the exact pinning of the time interval of strife seems abit immersion breaking. Would it be possible to rewrite it to something like:
For a period of close to three centuries, the Kingdom was wracked by famine and civil wars. This period later became known as the "Night of Three Hundred Years". In the years to come, merely talking about the Night could make hardened warriors cry bitter tears of shame and despair.
Personally I find that a tad melodramatic. But everyone has different tastes.
Then later:
In the year 975 the Night came to an end, when [...]

Ok, I got abit carried away, and what I have is not well written, but I feel the mention of exact years in this context sounds abit like "Look at me, I have a timeline on a Wiki, and can justify my storyline by yeardropping" :-) I know quite alot of people quite fond of yeardropping IRL (myself included), so the effect may be an intended one, but maybe leaving the dates out would make the storyteller seem more "secure".
I feel that perhaps this requires some explanation. I believe I tried to write that intro as if it was a passage from a historian's writing (albeit written from a somewhat personal point of view), and accordingly I would have thought it appropriate to include such facts as dates, as fitting the general tone of the writing. I also feel that it potentially helps to maintain a sense of continuity, as by providing this information I reduce the risk of future campaigns accidentally contradicting this one. As I recall, the dates for this campaign were carefully considered, as we were trying to fit it around other campaigns on the timeline.
EDIT2: Of course in a time of strife and many strong civilizations with different historical landmarks clashing (Northern Alliance, remnants of Wesnoth etc.) it may make more sense to include "YW" than it currently does for us. How do the Orcs calibrate their calendar?
I honestly never considered this, though if it makes sense in the context then that's an unexpected bonus.

Again, including the "YW" is also the kind of thing you would expect from a historical document, or so I'd have thought.
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