Melinath's Descriptions: Drakes

For writers working on documentation, story prose, announcements, and all kinds of Wesnoth text.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Post Reply
User avatar
melinath
Posts: 1298
Joined: May 20th, 2009, 7:42 am

Re: Melinath's Descriptions: Drakes

Post by melinath »

Zarel wrote: My original suggestion was "extent of his authority" - I'm guessing you missed that? ;) And here I've been refraining from suggesting it again because I thought you didn't like that idea. :P
At the time, I preferred my solution, but you convinced me. :-)
Zarel wrote:The entire phrase "Respected for the heat of their flame and revered for their charisma," is an adjective clause (specifically, the one I was referring to).

"Respected for the heat of their flame" and "revered for their charisma" are parallel constructions, but the entire phrases need to complement, not just the leading verb. I can understand if you don't like my proposed revisions, but I still think you should rephrase it to flow better.
Ah, I see what you mean. However, I don't think that there's that much of a problem with flow. The current rhythm of the sentence is:

-X-X-X--X--X-X-X-

which is fairly regular and smooth.

Solsword: Thanks for your excellent and thorough critique. I'm sorry that I couldn't address it sooner.
solsword wrote:This looks fine to me, but brings up a more general issue.

This description, along with several others including the main drake race description, make Drake society out to be an extremely oppressive place. This is *in addition* to the implications of (and explicit references to) a strict hierarchy within their society. A society can be strictly hierarchical, without the implied constant struggle for higher station being a *desperate* one (alright, at least in a fantasy world it can :wink: ). There's a difference between leading a blighted existence, constantly fighting to retain your marginal place in society and toiling to little reward, and being a member of a strict hierarchy where you strive to better your station in life through honorable competition with your peers. Not being Jetryl, I don't actually know which version is more descriptive of Drake society (or whether it varies between tribes or eras), but I do strongly get the impression from these descriptions that it is the former. If it's not (of if it's not that simple), then perhaps the tone of some of the descriptions (especially where it mentions interactions between the castes or the role of the castes in society) could do with some close inspection.

And now this is strictly my own opinion, but I think that a hierarchical society where both the positive and negative versions existed in different tribes would be much more interesting (and more conducive to using Drakes as both enemies and allies) than a society in which only the positive or negative aspects were expressed.
I see drake society as pretty restrictive, which is why they're portrayed that way in these descriptions. You're right that it is something to think about. The most interesting question in my mind right now is what would change about Drake society moving from the volcanic islands and their plentiful marine resources to the very different environment of the Heartland mountains. The change in feeding patterns would probably have a great effect on their society. But I don't think this is something that needs to be addressed in these revisions. Maybe if someone does another round someday.
solsword wrote:{} = The unfortunate sentence-initial placement makes "Arrogant Burners" seem like some sort of proper noun. The rest of the sentence clarifies, but it's awkward. I'm not sure how best to rephrase without simply using more words, such as "members of this caste" instead of "Burners", so maybe this one is a lost cause.

() = You need "many of them" (or simply "of which there are many"). Just using "and" here might work in a conversation, but it doesn't in text.
I'm a bit baffled that this is bothering you and don't plan to change it.
solsword wrote:// = Do dragons' veins *actually* flow with pure flame? The first time I read this, I misread the part between the commas as a parenthetical aside from the author, rather than part of the Burners' claim. Unfortunately, quotes here to delineate the claim would be too awkward, and "Arrogant Burners" aren't *actually* speaking anyways. I'm not sure there's a good fix for this, but I thought i'd point it out.

(EDIT-ish: I just read the old Flameheart description a bit down the page. Apparently dragons' veins do *actually* flow with pure flame?)
The old Flameheart desc says "It is said that..." which implies flame to the same extent that the new burner desc would. You have a good point about the 'like dragons' insertion, and I believe I've been able to correct it. Thanks!

I've made changes according to most of your other points as well, but I don't have time atm to go into detail. Sorry. Btw, the way you did rewrites was fine in my book - rather than just saying "Here's my version" you made specific suggestions about particular lines and explained why.

Final Drafts:
Okay, I could probably keep working on these forever if I had the time. But I don't. I need to be done with these. If nobody finds any grievous spelling or grammar errors, these are the last drafts I will be making. Thanks to everyone who provided feedback and suggestions along the way.

Glider Caste:
Glider:Current Desc:
Glider: Draft 7:
Sky Drake: Current Version:
Sky Drake: Draft 2:
Hurricane Drake: Current Version:
Hurricane Drake: Draft 2:
Burner Caste:
Burner: Current Version:
Burner: Draft 4:
Fire Drake: Current Version:
Fire Drake: Draft 2:
Inferno Drake: Current Version:
Inferno Drake: Draft 4:
Drake Flare: Current Desc:
Drake Flare:Draft 2:
Drake Flameheart: Current Desc:
Drake Flameheart: Draft 2:

Fighter Caste
Fighter: Current Desc:
Fighter: Draft 1:
Warrior: Current Desc:
Warrior: Draft 1.5:
Blademaster: Current Desc:
Blademaster: Draft 3:
Last edited by melinath on September 18th, 2009, 1:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
solsword
Code Contributor
Posts: 291
Joined: January 12th, 2009, 10:21 pm
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Contact:

Re: Melinath's Descriptions: Drakes

Post by solsword »

Those look very good. Thanks for taking on this task and putting up with the comments. Of course, there are still things that I would write differently, but mostly that is because I am not you, rather than because I find them objectively awkward or incorrect. I'd say commit these.
The Knights of the Silver Spire campaign.

http://www.cs.hmc.edu/~pmawhorter - my website.

Teamcolors for everyone! PM me for a teamcolored version of your sprite, or you can do it yourself. If you just happen to like magenta, no hard feelings?
User avatar
thespaceinvader
Retired Art Director
Posts: 8414
Joined: August 25th, 2007, 10:12 am
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

Re: Melinath's Descriptions: Drakes

Post by thespaceinvader »

I'll pop these by Jet this weekend whilst we're working on the last couple of Drake sprites, and get them committed pending his say.
http://thespaceinvader.co.uk | http://thespaceinvader.deviantart.com
Back to work. Current projects: Catching up on commits. Picking Meridia back up. Sprite animations, many and varied.
AI
Developer
Posts: 2394
Joined: January 31st, 2008, 8:38 pm

Re: Melinath's Descriptions: Drakes

Post by AI »

There are still two issues that have been mentioned before:
Glider wrote:The long forays to the reaches of the tribal territory
You can either travel "to the outer reaches" or you can travel "through the reaches", but, given that their tribe is inside their territory, they can't travel "to the reaches of the tribal territory", as they're already there.
Blademaster wrote:Blademasters fiercely protect their fellows honor, and tribe leaders rarely dare punish them for it.
In a society based on honor, protecting it would not be a crime, and leaders would likely not be free to punish arbitrary drakes at will.
User avatar
melinath
Posts: 1298
Joined: May 20th, 2009, 7:42 am

Re: Melinath's Descriptions: Drakes

Post by melinath »

AI wrote:There are still two issues that have been mentioned before:
Glider wrote:The long forays to the reaches of the tribal territory
You can either travel "to the outer reaches" or you can travel "through the reaches", but, given that their tribe is inside their territory, they can't travel "to the reaches of the tribal territory", as they're already there.
I was using 'reaches' in the sense of 'extreme limits', but since it's bothered a couple people, I have now changed it to far reaches.
Al wrote:
Blademaster wrote:Blademasters fiercely protect their fellows honor, and tribe leaders rarely dare punish them for it.
In a society based on honor, protecting it would not be a crime, and leaders would likely not be free to punish arbitrary drakes at will.
My take on it is that leaders theoretically have the power to punish whoever they want for whatever reason they want - they are at the top of the heap after all - but if they punish the wrong person, they would have to deal with the consequences. Still, you guys are entirely correct that I implied that protecting honor was a crime, which I shouldn't have. I've got two possible rephrasings:
1. Though other drakes may disparage the Fighter caste, they always check twice to be sure none are around; Blademasters fiercely protect their fellows' honor, and no-one would dispute their right.

2.Though other drakes may disparage the Fighter caste, they always check twice to be sure none are around; Blademasters fiercely protect their fellows' honor, and even if their retribution goes beyond the traditional bounds, tribe leaders rarely dare punish them for it.

The second rephrasing feels a bit awkward atm, but it makes the idea clearer and I could clean it up.
User avatar
solsword
Code Contributor
Posts: 291
Joined: January 12th, 2009, 10:21 pm
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Contact:

Re: Melinath's Descriptions: Drakes

Post by solsword »

Hmm... I like... both! I guess that's not really useful to you, but I feel like you could go for either one and it would be fine. You're right that the bottom one is a tiny bit awkward, but it includes a correctly-used semicolon, and I have a soft spot in my heart for correctly-used semicolons.

Also apparently I didn't read your revisions closely enough... oops :oops: . Thanks for catching those, AI.
The Knights of the Silver Spire campaign.

http://www.cs.hmc.edu/~pmawhorter - my website.

Teamcolors for everyone! PM me for a teamcolored version of your sprite, or you can do it yourself. If you just happen to like magenta, no hard feelings?
User avatar
Jetrel
Art Director
Posts: 7242
Joined: February 23rd, 2004, 3:36 am
Location: Midwest US

Re: Melinath's Descriptions: Drakes

Post by Jetrel »

Glider Line:
All good.

Burner Line:
Great except for one tidbit:
Inferno:
These leading words are a little too silly of wordplay. :P They also seem to be a pun on the "the flying configurations" business used in our old descriptions, which isn't a dependency we want to have.

Possible alternate:
'Inferno Drakes' have this name for a very straightforward reason: they are masters of the fire they breathe, respected and [...]


Fighter Line:
Swap the fighter and warrior descriptions. (Blademaster is fine.)

They're good descriptions, but the warrior one just doesn't fit him because the line about "not having a strong inner flame" isn't true. They have a fairly good flame attack (whereas the fighters don't). It's actually a world of difference in-game. This is basically identical to the change from fighter->hero for the elves. It would fit the fighter, though, and the proposed fighter description would fit the warrior just fine.
Play Frogatto & Friends - a finished, open-source adventure game!
User avatar
thespaceinvader
Retired Art Director
Posts: 8414
Joined: August 25th, 2007, 10:12 am
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

Re: Melinath's Descriptions: Drakes

Post by thespaceinvader »

Or just cut the first part of that sentence altogether, up to the 'Inferno' - it still reads perfectly fine without it, and adding in something as hyperbolic that doesn't soudn sill would be difficult.
http://thespaceinvader.co.uk | http://thespaceinvader.deviantart.com
Back to work. Current projects: Catching up on commits. Picking Meridia back up. Sprite animations, many and varied.
Kenpachi
Posts: 66
Joined: July 28th, 2009, 1:40 pm

Re: Melinath's Descriptions: Drakes

Post by Kenpachi »

Since there has been no recent discussion about the proposed name changes to the "sky" and "fire" drakes, they are not going to happen?
User avatar
melinath
Posts: 1298
Joined: May 20th, 2009, 7:42 am

Re: Melinath's Descriptions: Drakes

Post by melinath »

Kenpachi: I may still campaign for name changes sometime in the future, but this thread was getting really bogged down in them and the descriptions are more important.

Inferno Drakes: I admit it. I took that first part of the sentence directly from the old description. I thought it was kinda cute. But yeah - the description works fine without it.

Fighter Line: Switched.

Final Drafts, Take 2:
I think that wraps up everything. It'd be great if someone could commit these.

Glider Caste:
Glider:Current Desc:
Glider: Draft 7:
Sky Drake: Current Version:
Sky Drake: Draft 2:
Hurricane Drake: Current Version:
Hurricane Drake: Draft 2:
Burner Caste:
Burner: Current Version:
Burner: Draft 4:
Fire Drake: Current Version:
Fire Drake: Draft 2:
Inferno Drake: Current Version:
Inferno Drake: Draft 5:
Drake Flare: Current Desc:
Drake Flare:Draft 2:
Drake Flameheart: Current Desc:
Drake Flameheart: Draft 2:

Fighter Caste
Fighter: Current Desc:
Fighter: Draft 2:
Warrior: Current Desc:
Warrior: Draft 2:
Blademaster: Current Desc:
Blademaster: Draft 3:
AI
Developer
Posts: 2394
Joined: January 31st, 2008, 8:38 pm

Re: Melinath's Descriptions: Drakes

Post by AI »

The Warrior's new description doesn't mention the unit's name now that it's been swapped. It's not a real problem, but it looks a bit odd. Maybe you can work it in there somewhere.
User avatar
thespaceinvader
Retired Art Director
Posts: 8414
Joined: August 25th, 2007, 10:12 am
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

Re: Melinath's Descriptions: Drakes

Post by thespaceinvader »

I'll get these committed in the next few days, apart from the warrior which might still need some minor work.
http://thespaceinvader.co.uk | http://thespaceinvader.deviantart.com
Back to work. Current projects: Catching up on commits. Picking Meridia back up. Sprite animations, many and varied.
User avatar
melinath
Posts: 1298
Joined: May 20th, 2009, 7:42 am

Re: Melinath's Descriptions: Drakes

Post by melinath »

Something like this?
Warrior: Current Desc:
Warrior: Draft 2.5:
P.S. - thanks for committing these.
User avatar
thespaceinvader
Retired Art Director
Posts: 8414
Joined: August 25th, 2007, 10:12 am
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

Re: Melinath's Descriptions: Drakes

Post by thespaceinvader »

They've been committed now =)

Thanks for your sterling and patient work, Melinath.
http://thespaceinvader.co.uk | http://thespaceinvader.deviantart.com
Back to work. Current projects: Catching up on commits. Picking Meridia back up. Sprite animations, many and varied.
User avatar
melinath
Posts: 1298
Joined: May 20th, 2009, 7:42 am

Re: Melinath's Descriptions: Drakes

Post by melinath »

You're welcome. I'm glad that I could be a help.
Post Reply