Melinath's Descriptions: Drakes

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Skrim
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Re: Melinath's Descriptions: Drakes

Post by Skrim »

I like the new Burner description. It provides a background to the caste, instead of just starting off on some random point like the old one. :)

The Fire Drake description is... ok. It's pretty heavily devoted to explaining the colors used on the sprite, and not much else.
Araja wrote:Drake Inferno, Mage Holy, Elf Archery and Saurian Freezer? :hmm:
That post makes no sense whatsoever. Changing the name to Drake Inferno would actually be putting it in-line with the format used by the other races and the other Drakes. And the Saurian names are already "Saurian <something>" so I don't see what you're getting at there.

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Re: Melinath's Descriptions: Drakes

Post by Araja »

It sounds like standardization for the sake of it, with no thought that it sounds silly.
Inferno is a description of an event, not a role, and the only apparent reason for them being named so has been people comparing them to the layout of other races names and deciding they should fit in.

Human Charge, Elvish Arrowhail, Dwarvish Smash, Orcish Onslaught, Drake Inferno, and Undead Nightmare.

Terms used to describe an attack by one of the factions.
Oh wait, one of those was a unit name...er..the undead one I think.

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melinath
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Re: Melinath's Descriptions: Drakes

Post by melinath »

Araja, I know that a few pages back I did argue on the basis of standardization for changing a number of names. And I am aware that some people didn't like the idea. That is why for the inferno drake I've noted the additional point that the unit currently contradicts itself: the unit description doesn't match the unit name. This would suggest that at least for this unit, the name is uncertain and could go either way *even from the standpoint of the current state of things.*

I don't think that Drake Inferno sounds any sillier than Drake Flare, Orcish Slurbow, Nightgaunt, or Inferno Drake. It definitely doesn't sound like a term 'used to describe an attack' by the drake faction.

It seems to me like you're resisting standardization for the sake of it, with no thought to the fact that you may just be clinging to what's familiar.

I seem to recall you once offering decent criticism, but now you've degenerated to sniping at the most unimportant parts of my posts, occasionally making little sense or straying off topic, without any comment on the actual substance of this thread: the descriptions. Please, continue your criticism of the names; I don't mind! I want to hear what people think. But please try to stay relevant and coherent and say *something* about the descriptions as well, from time to time.

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Re: Melinath's Descriptions: Drakes

Post by Araja »

I don't think that Drake Inferno sounds any sillier than Drake Flare, Orcish Slurbow, Nightgaunt, or Inferno Drake. It definitely doesn't sound like a term 'used to describe an attack' by the drake faction.
Admittedly that was one of my worse speeches, my best was the Light Mage and after that I was looking for another.
It seems to me like you're resisting standardization for the sake of it, with no thought to the fact that you may just be clinging to what's familiar.
You may have a point there :hmm:
I seem to recall you once offering decent criticism, but now you've degenerated to sniping at the most unimportant parts of my posts, occasionally making little sense or straying off topic, without any comment on the actual substance of this thread: the descriptions.
As a general rules everyone labels me and misinterprets what I say, so I have a different kind of post from someone who still has a good reputation, or at least believe they do. I have tried a few times to get back on the "respectable" track, but someone always jump to a conclusion and I get in an argument with them.
I'm not saying you do, you to be one of the few who doesn't, I'm just explaining the "sniping"
But please try to stay relevant and coherent and say *something* about the descriptions as well, from time to time.
Hmm, fair point.

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Re: Melinath's Descriptions: Drakes

Post by The1exile »

For the burner, you've written "firey". I suspect you mean "fiery".

I like the imagery for the Fire Drake, but the description seems a little clunky for reason which are hard to pin down. If nothing else, try changing "These drakes have devoted their lives to their inner fire, and it has burned its way into their skin" to "These drakes have devoted their lives to their inner fire, and their fiery vitality emanates through their skin, scorching their scales to a reddish-gray." I'm also not entirely sure if "skin" is appropriate, as we're assuming they have skin under scales by the sounds of things, but I hesitate to repeat "scales".

Drake Inferno should be "the revered ancestors" --> "their revered ancestors". I would also suggest changing "respected and feared" to "feared and respected", but that might just be my autocratic nature :-)
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Re: Melinath's Descriptions: Drakes

Post by thespaceinvader »

I'm going to have to suggest that you get a move on with these descriptions. There's a string freeze coming up for the runup to 1.8, after which no changes to translateable strings will be permitted, descriptions included. I've made minor changes to the remaining old descriptions to ensure that they at least make sense (mostly removing references to swords, scimitars etc), but getting the new ones in would be good.
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Re: Melinath's Descriptions: Drakes

Post by thespaceinvader »

New Desc Drafts:
(i'm going to excercise dev privs and use colour here to delineate my bits, I can't be bothered to faff with quote tags)
melinath wrote:
Glider: Current Version:
Glider: Draft 4:
revel in the ripple of air beneath their light cloth robes seems a little over the top to be. And you should ignore the animations completely IMO, and stick to the explanation for Marksman provided in the original - that they can see over the enemy's cover and strike from the air. Just cos we can't animate it correctly doesn't mean it's not an accurate reason.
Sky Drake: Current Version:
Sky Drake: Draft 1:
glazed in honour of the air they love just strikes me as a little odd. Mentioning the lightness of the ceramic is more important IMO. Something like 'These drakes wear lightweight ceramic armour for protection, they choose bright colours to blend with the air where they spend most of their time' or something.
Hurricane Drake: Current Version:
Hurricane Drake: Draft 0.5:
Can't really fault this one, but I feel like it could use a little... more... somehow.
Burner: Current Version:
Burner: Draft 1:
I consider the Glider line descs finished if nobody sees any terrible flaws.

In terms of the new unit names: I agree that they aren't strictly necessary. I also think that I have left out, or not emphasized, a second reason that I am proposing these changes. It's not just a matter of standardization. These name changes would increase the feel that the drakes have a hierarchical society with specific ranks.

For example, there is no way that the drakes would have a rank called "Drake Glider". Rather, the rank would be "Glider". "Drake" is a race that's added to the front to distinguish this unit from other Gliders. But "Sky Drake" doesn't really work as a rank either. "Zephyr" would work better. (Although I guess one could make the argument that it's similar to words like "mailman".)

TSI: If it would make you find this idea better, I could leave Drake Flare where it is and/or find some other replacement for "Fire Drake".
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Re: Melinath's Descriptions: Drakes

Post by Hushpuppy »

Seems like the Hurricane Drake is like the Knight-at-arms of the Drakes. I too believe it could be embellished. How about this?

Hurricane Drakes have risen above the menial hunting and gathering which the lower members of their caste are relegated to. Rather, they hone their skills in the martial arts and train rigorously. Contests between orders of the Hurricane Drakes are important for ranking their membership and the orders themselves. They
form the core of the drakes' military, and are used to scout and are usually the first to storm far-flung enemy posts. Training has increased their skill in combat, but a Hurricane Drake's greatest strength still lies in his speed.

- the Pupp

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Skrim
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Re: Melinath's Descriptions: Drakes

Post by Skrim »

Hushpuppy wrote:Seems like the Hurricane Drake is like the Knight-at-arms of the Drakes. I too believe it could be embellished. How about this?

Hurricane Drakes have risen above the menial hunting and gathering which the lower members of their caste are relegated to. Rather, they hone their skills in the martial arts and train rigorously. Contests between orders of the Hurricane Drakes are important for ranking their membership and the orders themselves. They
form the core of the drakes' military, and are used to scout and are usually the first to storm far-flung enemy posts. Training has increased their skill in combat, but a Hurricane Drake's greatest strength still lies in his speed.

- the Pupp
Try to suggest changes instead of rewriting the whole thing.

I'd like to highlight one point in your rewrite here, though:
- Hurricane Drakes aren't the "core" of the Drakes' military. In fact, the core of the Drake military is quite ambiguous. With Humans, it's assumed to be Spearmen and Bowmen, with Elves, it's Fighters and Archers, with Dwarves, it's Fighters and Thunderers, and with Orcs, it's Grunts. The Drakes haven't been seen often enough for us to know what the bulk of their force is made up of. It definitely isn't a level-3 scout, though, I am sure.
_______________________________________________________________________________

The Hurricane Drake would also make a horrible 'Knight-at-arms' type high-mobility storming unit actually - the entire Glider line is in fact somewhat of an outcast in that they are significantly inferior at combat than other Drakes. The other level-3 Drakes are amongst the strongest units of their level in concerns of damage output and raw hitpoints; the Hurricane is quite the opposite with it's puny attacks and unusual frailty. This is true for the lower-level Gliders as well, and the Hurricane does nothing to break that pattern.

The true elite 'storming unit' of the Drakes would be the Blademaster. It's flight ability is second only to the Gliders, yet it is much tougher and hits much harder than they do. If anything, this embellishment should be bestowed to it rather than to a glorified scout.

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Re: Melinath's Descriptions: Drakes

Post by thespaceinvader »

No, the elite stormers of the drakes are the Clasher line, particularly the Thrasher/Enforcer. In civilian life they use those skills to bring down drake criminals. In battle, their enemies. For my money, I don't really see the Drakes having any one unit being their core unit - each unit is relatively specialised and has its strengths and weaknesses.

If the core unit is anything, it's the fighter
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Re: Melinath's Descriptions: Drakes

Post by Araja »

Agreed, the Hurricane drake is far too weak to storm an outpost.
Or, for that matter, a small group of people around a campfire.

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Re: Melinath's Descriptions: Drakes

Post by melinath »

Start on the Fighter line - updates on the other lines coming soon.
Fighter: Current Desc:
Fighter: Draft 1:
Warrior: Current Desc:
Warrior: Draft 0:
Blademaster: Current Desc:
Blademaster: Draft 1:

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Re: Melinath's Descriptions: Drakes

Post by thespaceinvader »

The lines won't remain red, they will be team coloured - it's only the black paint of the armour that will remain constant on the blademaster.
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Re: Melinath's Descriptions: Drakes

Post by melinath »

Okay... I need food before I can work more. Here are new drafts of the Glider and Sky Drake.
Glider:
thespaceinvader wrote:revel in the ripple of air beneath their light cloth robes seems a little over the top to be. And you should ignore the animations completely IMO, and stick to the explanation for Marksman provided in the original - that they can see over the enemy's cover and strike from the air. Just cos we can't animate it correctly doesn't mean it's not an accurate reason.
I agree that the reveling may have been a bit much, but I disagree about ignoring the animations. One of the reasons that this is even being done is so that the writing and the sprites match. Additionally, players are usually going to be confronted not with a bit of writing, but with an animated drake sprite, so it behooves us to pay attention to what that sprite is doing. It would be ridiculous to say that Clashers are wearing leather since the sprite is clearly wearing bronze or gold - some kind of metal at any rate - and the players know it.

Also, as a small side note, the current description's reasoning doesn't make much sense to me. Skill at flying doesn't make you aim well. Skill at aiming makes you aim well.
Glider:Current Desc:
Glider: Draft 5:
Sky Drake:
thespaceinvader wrote:glazed in honour of the air they love just strikes me as a little odd. Mentioning the lightness of the ceramic is more important IMO. Something like 'These drakes wear lightweight ceramic armour for protection, they choose bright colours to blend with the air where they spend most of their time' or something.
You're right - the 'glazed in honor of...' was a bit odd. However, I can't really justify the ceramic having a protective function since it doesn't seem to increase their protection at all. The camouflage angle seems interesting for combat applications, making it harder to see them as they dive towards you, but I haven't used that in this version.
Sky Drake: Current Version:
Sky Drake: Draft 2:
Last edited by melinath on September 2nd, 2009, 2:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Melinath's Descriptions: Drakes

Post by thespaceinvader »

In fluff terms, the armour is protective. It's balance that forces them to remain at the same defence level as the previous levels. Saying it's purely decorative would be a mistake. You could handwave the lack of change in vulnerability as them still being easily shot down when in flight, because you can't armour the wing membranes. But i personally wouldn't worry too much about it.
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