Fixing the Weapon Names

[Skrim]

I've noticed, in the Wesnoth help files, on the unit pages, a couple of the attack names are wrong considering what the unit is actually armed with. It's minor detail, but I don't think there's any harm in pointing it out. Here are a few, and the changes I propose:

Merman Hoplite: Trident -> Spear or Pike

Merman Triton: Trident -> Halberd/Poleaxe thingy

Longbowman/Master Bowman: Bow -> Longbow



The above three cases agree with the sprites and unit descriptions and are corrections to minor errors. The following few are not error corrections, but just minor details.

Royal Guard/General/Grand Marshal/Grand Knight/Cavalier: Sword -> Longsword

Paladin: Sword -> Empowered Sword or Arcane Sword

Elves: Sword -> Backsword or Elven Sword

Elves(except for Marksman/Sharpshooter): Bow -> Elven Bow

Elvish Marksman/Sharpshooter: Longbow -> Elven Longbow


Perhaps the weapons could also have descriptions like those in Bob's thread, accessible by tooltip when rolling over the weapon icon in the help files, or the stats in the sidebar.

[melinath]

Those are good points about the sprites not matching the supposed weapon, but I'd like to mention that the inaccuracy could also be fixed with new sprites or edits of the current ones. Still, changing the writing would be significantly easier.

In terms of the tooltip: Hmm. I don't really think that's necessary... but you could maybe propose it in the ideas forum? You'd get more general input there.

[jhanlon]

I think the idea of weapon descriptions is neat, it just doesn't seem like there would be that much to say about different weapons, particularly different types of the same weapon, such as, for instance, the bow and the elven bow.

[The1exile]

I prefer broadsword to longsword for cavalier/royal guard et al.

[melinath]

I've noticed, in the Wesnoth help files, on the unit pages, a couple of the attack names are wrong considering what the unit is actually armed with. It's minor detail, but I don't think there's any harm in pointing it out. Here are a few, and the changes I propose:

Merman Hoplite: Trident -> Spear or Pike

Merman Triton: Trident -> Halberd/Poleaxe thingy

Longbowman/Master Bowman: Bow -> Longbow

Back to the main subject: the versions on the left are the current text in the unit_types. They are clearly wrong.

hoplite.png (3.91 KiB) Viewed 4500 times

triton.png (4.34 KiB) Viewed 4500 times

I believe these are both spears. Could we get a commit on changing the Hoplite and Triton weapon names+images to Spear and Longbowman's weapon name to Longbow? Then we can discuss the less important changes to our heart's content.

[Turuk]

Fairly certain that it is/meant to be a trident, but that the prongs are not shown in a manner that allows them to be seen with space between their heads.

Could we get a commit on changing the Longbowman's weapon name to Longbow?

Done, and also fixed the Master Bowman's then as well.

[Skrim]

The Hoplite quite clearly uses a Spear, not a Trident. It's not anything unusual for Mermen anyway; the entire Hunter tree uses Spears.

Strangely enough, even the ranged attacks of the Hunter/Spearman/Javelineer line are labelled as "Spear" when the descriptions imply that they are "Javelins" like the ones that the human Spearman/Javelineer use. Another possible correction there.

As for the Triton's weapon, it's highly ambiguous. It looks like some kind of cross between a trident, given it's 3 "heads", and a halberd, given the fact that it has a blade attack. The sprite seems to imply that it's a long spear with blades bolted on either side. I don't quite know what the thing would be called.

[Turuk]

Strangely enough, even the ranged attacks of the Hunter/Spearman/Javelineer line are labelled as "Spear" when the descriptions imply that they are "Javelins" like the ones that the human Spearman/Javelineer use. Another possible correction there.

A javelin is a spear.

The Hoplite quite clearly uses a Spear, not a Trident. It's not anything unusual for Mermen anyway; the entire Hunter tree uses Spears.

Right, I was only referencing the Triton, I should have specified.

[A-Red]

Perhaps it's worth pointing out in this thread that the ball-and-chain weapon referred to in Wesnoth as a "morningstar" is actually a flail. A morningstar is a spiked club or mace with no chain.

[Turuk]

Perhaps it's worth pointing out in this thread that the ball-and-chain weapon referred to in Wesnoth as a "morningstar" is actually a flail. A morningstar is a spiked club or mace with no chain.

An interesting point with this is that the HI has a mace picture and mace weapon name, but actually carries a morning star. The Shock Trooper is said to have a morning star, but has the flail picture, and is actually carrying a flail. The Iron Mauler is the same as the HI.

The Outlaw, Fugitive, Bandit, Highwayman all have morning stars, as they have the spikes on their head which set them apart from maces. They are, however, listed as maces.

[Skrim]

The Mage of Light also has a flail, which is also unsurprisingly listed as a "morning star". Same thing with Owaec in EI.

[melinath]

This is not necessarily incorrect.

The morning star first came into widespread use around the beginning of the fourteenth century, and the term is often applied to the military flail (fléau d'armes in French and Kriegsflegel in German) which consists of a wooden shaft joined by a length of chain to one or more iron balls or an iron shod wooden bar...

I grew up with the morning star meaning for me what flail means to you. Spiky ball at the end of a chain.

[thespaceinvader]

MM, ditto. It's an eminently debatable point, because the names are so old, and have been used for so many different things over the years, both 'correctly' and erroneously, that they have become conflated - mace and morning star can both be used to describe pointy-headed maces. Morning star can be used to describe pointy-headed flails. I don't think this is one we can really clean up successfully.

[Turuk]

I will agree that morning star and flail are often confused, but I have seen little confusion between morning star and mace, as the factor that tie a morning star and flail together (spiky ball) is missing from a mace, as they are defined as not having spikes.

As for MoL and Owaec, I can change them to match the others, or I can leave them in light of this.

[thespaceinvader]

Where are maces defined as not having spikes, exactly? EDIT: almost every definition I've found in a quick googling includes the word 'spiked' somewhere...

http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/ ... 1861627545
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Mace
http://www.dictionary.net/mace
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mace%5B2%5D
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/mace_1?view=uk
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mace (this one doesn't)
http://education.yahoo.com/reference/di ... rbk.CugMMF

6 to 1 in favour of maces possibly having spikes